| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1507 Registered: 11-2005 |
Rick posted such an excellent observation on CARM that I just had to share it here. Rick responded with this insightful observation I added the following Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2671 Registered: 10-2004  |
Wow. Also, notice that their official "Fundamental Beliefs" say: "As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort,..." Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9632 Registered: 12-2003  |
Ooh--really insightful points! Thanks, Gilbert and Jeremy. Every reality about God has been distorted by Ellen one way or another--at least every reality that I can think of! Colleen | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 379 Registered: 1-2007 |
Gilbert, I agree with Colleen. Is there any scripture in the bible that egw did not distort? It breaks my heart to think of the up-hill battle God had in showing us how polluted sda and egw is, but it makes my heart sing knowing He is bigger than any so called old lady who taught a false religion. And what true love in Him is. Gail | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 722 Registered: 7-2007 |
Ellen White's writings never provided me with comfort when I was a Seventh-day Adventist. They provided me with GUILT. Nevertheless, I believed her writings, so if anything in the Bible didn't seem to match what she wrote, I figured that she explained it. I would just zip right past such verses. One such place is Ephesians 1:13,14 which contradicts Ellen White TWICE! It says that the Holy Spirit IS the Seal and it says that the Holy Spirit is the GUARANTEE of our salvation. Any born-again Christian knows that the way to be saved is to accept Jesus' sacrifice for us. Period. Ephesians 2:8,9 (also see 2 Tim. 1:9 and Titus 3:5) tells a believer "you have been saved." I couldn't quite believe that though and accept Jesus' sacrifice for myself because Ellen White said that no one should say that they are saved. Therefore I WASN'T saved. Dianne | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 823 Registered: 11-2007  |
My husband many years ago (who never really bought the egw thing)saw that the church used her as a substitute for the Holy Spirit. Instead of being guided by Him, even in daily life, they would go to the "books" to see what she had to say. Where the Holy Spirit can convict you of a wrong, there is never the hopeless condemnation you feel when reading her. Sondra | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1491 Registered: 5-2007  |
Until this thread was started, I never gave it a thought. Looking back however, I left the SDA church because I had no comfort. No matter what my SDA grandmother said to me about Ellen, she was not a source of comfort. When I read her books all I ever had was nightmares and despair because I was certain I was headed to hell and I was well ahead of River's cockroaches even if they were on roller-skates. Fearless Phil | ||
| Lucybugg Registered user Username: Lucybugg Post Number: 221 Registered: 2-2007 |
One of the first incidents that caused me to reconsider EGW and her writings was an elderly ss school teacher who said the first person he wanted to meet in heaven was EGW so he could thank her for saving him. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1495 Registered: 5-2007 |
Lucybugg, Wow...what heresy to say that! Did anybody ever correct her on who saves who? Phil | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 568 Registered: 10-2006 |
You know, thinking back, I never remember hearing much of anything about the Holy Spirit. They always called themselves a "spirit-filled church." Hmmm to exactly what spirit were they referring? I was involved in a counseling session with a friend who asked that I go with here for support. She was having some pretty major problems in her spiritual life. The head elder really didn't know what to say to her except: Are you keeping the commandments? Have you been reading Desire of Ages? He wanted her reading DA instead of the Bible because it was so much clearer. I couldn't believe he was saying that even then - and I was still very in the church at that time. I saw big problems in the things he said, but for probably the first time in my life kept my mouth shut. There are few times I have regretted keeping my mouth shut. That is one of them. Ellen White really IS their source of comfort. I hadn't thought of that before this thread. | ||
| Lucybugg Registered user Username: Lucybugg Post Number: 222 Registered: 2-2007 |
Phil...no one corrected him...just chimed in with hearty "amens." I was shocked to the core. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6750 Registered: 3-2004  |
The Holy Spirit was always something looked FORWARD to, not that he was given to us now, when I was raised in adventism. I remember hearing about the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the "end" times. The comment about EGW saving that person- WOW!!!! That is what happens when there is extraBiblical teachings. Sounds like Mariology in the Catholic church. Our awesome Jesus saved us. Diana L | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 392 Registered: 7-2004 |
Originally Posted by SUZY@BP As promised the Lord did not leave His church comfortless... God has been so gracious to His people through the ministry of Ellen White. I've been trying not to open my mouth (or type with my fingers), but when I read that I almost burst out laughing! Ellen Gould Harmon White is the FURTHEST thing from a comforter that I can EVER imagine. God has been gracious to me to lead me away from her tormenting writings. I'm with you, Fearless Phil! She brings nothing but despair and nightmares. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6753 Registered: 3-2004 |
EGW helped ruin my marriage and I have no respect or love for her or her writings. All she ever gave me was guilt and legalism. Diana L | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9643 Registered: 12-2003 |
Sigh. It's overwhelming--and yet I interact with my in-laws, and sure enough—EGW really is their rock-bottom safety place. My personal assessment of this phenomenon is that Ellen feels comforting to people bound by the spirit of Adventism. It is the same spirit. Colleen | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 837 Registered: 7-2005  |
Pegg, that is so SAD! First that the elderly teacher said it, and then that the others said amen. Thank you for reminding me just how bad Adventism really is. Sometimes, I get so weary of constantly praying for God to deliver my husband from his bondage to Adventism. Just today, as I was driving home from church, I was thinking about how depressing it is that hubby and I can't celebrate Christ's resurrection together. I asked the Lord, if it is His will, to take away from me this obsession that I have in praying for this so often. It consumes me. I think about it ALL the time. I'm surrounded by reminders of Adventism. Every spare minute, hubby is working on his proselityzing efforts to touch more people's lives with Adventism. He's SO involved with this. He is working on a web site to promote a new radio program they'll be starting soon in our area. Every night, for the last two weeks and the coming three weeks, he's involved with the Revelation Seminar in our area. He is absolutely STEEPED in Adventism. Sometimes, I just get so tired of this and think I should just resign myself that it will always be this way and just ignore it. I ask God why he would get me out of Adventism and leave hubby in. I am so envious of couples who agree on fundamental doctrines and attend church together. I am sure hubby prays for me to come back to Adventism, just as fervently as I pray for him to come out. We have a stinkin' stalemate! If I were to become just as active against Adventism as hubby is for it, which is what I really want to do, I'm afraid it would ruin my marriage. I wish I could just be satisfied to leave it alone, but then I read something on this forum, such as this thread, and I'm back in a tither again. How can I just keep quiet about this? Honestwitness | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4545 Registered: 9-2006  |
Honestwitness, You can't because love won't let you. here is what the bible says. Thessalonians II 3:13 But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary in doing good. And in Galatians 6:9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. You can't go losing heart Honestwitness, just walk the next mile, take the next step. During my stay in the military we went on long marches or what we called humps. My feet got to bleeding inside my combat boots and every step I made was excruciating pain carrying 85 pounds of gear plus the rifle in my hand which weighed 9 1/2 pounds and I got to the point where all could was to concentrate on the next step. my legs were trembling with exhaustion, but I just took the next step and the next until finally we got to where we were going. I pulled my boots off and the blisters had burst and my socks were wet with blood, I was able to treat the feet. Another time I was diving and we were supposed to stay down at 40 feet, things happened that we were kept down longer than we should have been. My body steadily grew colder until I was shivering in my wetsuit, I peed on myself to get some little bit of warmth, but it didn't do much good, I got to the point to where I made up my mind, just one more minute and when I accomplished that I said, please God just one more minute, if I had gone to the top the dive would have been ruined because you can't just bob up and down through those atmospheres. When you get that way you just make up your mind, just one more prayer, just one more hour. Hold on. Read the great witness chapter. Just one more step. River | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 838 Registered: 7-2005 |
Thank, River! These mental images do help. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 725 Registered: 7-2007 |
Honestwitness, I want to encourage you to keep on too. It IS discouraging though. I have a bunch of Adventist relatives who can't seem to see past Ellen White. My mother won't even look anything up in the Bible when I talk to her. I guess she thinks the Bible will deceive her. I really feel badly for you though, having a spouse steeped in it like that. That would be REALLY hard! All religions have a do/don't list. Christianity is a relationship with a God Who has DONE it all!!! It's hard to tell others that though. It seems that nearly EVERYBODY doesn't want to hear the gospel! As well as my relatives, I've also been trying to tell people where I work. That's really hard too, and very few people are willing to listen. Occasionally, something encouraging happens though. I gave a New Testament to a young man who said that he was a Catholic. I pointed out from the Bible that salvation is a free gift and that there's nothing anyone can do to earn it. He said he would read it and he really did! Later I mentioned that he ought to ask the Lord to help him understand what he was reading. He looked confused and I told him just to ask God, like he was talking to a friend. (Something like that.) He was still confused so I told him some words to say. I said something like: "just say, 'Father God, please help me understand Your Word. In Jesus name, Amen." Understanding filled his face then and he agreed to pray. Later he came to me all excited that he had started going to a non-denominational Christian fellowship church in the area. I was pleased for him! When I mentioned this to a friend though, she asked if he was saved. I didn't know - I had just assumed so. (Having been an Adventist so long, I had NO experience in leading someone to the Lord.) The next time I saw him in the hall I asked him if he was saved. He looked REALLY CONFUSED this time and said he'd never heard of such a thing. I explained it the best way I knew how and gave him a small tract on the subject. So anyway, I HOPE he's saved now. It seems most people want to avoid Jesus and His free gift. Either they want to help earn it (we're born legalists, my pastor says) like ALL THE CULTS do, or they want to avoid Him entirely. I talked to a person on Friday who's Jewish. According to her, her Messiah hasn't come yet and she seems entirely unwilling to study her scriptures. (I've heard that Jewish people often refer to Jesus as the "Gentile God.") Awhile back I talked to a Buddhist who called Jesus "the Semitic God." So most people avoid Jesus somehow or another, through adding works to His finished work, or avoiding Him altogether. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1649 Registered: 4-2000  |
Honestwitness, I like your screen name (avatar or handle). Since salvation is from the Lord, you may not yet know what God intends for you in your witness to your SDA husband. However, your being a "honest witness" cannot be overlooked for long. He may not tell you nor admit it, but he is intently watching you. It is my heartfelt prayer that what he sees in you will be mightily used by God to finally bring him to faith. We are all open Bibles to those around us, but a spouse reads us more carefully and seriously. Your able witness to your husband is a work the angels would love to do. So hang in there. God has you exactly at the right place and in the right time for His wonders to perform. The best evangelism begins at home. Remember, all Christians are missionaries (honest witnesses). Dennis Fischer | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 839 Registered: 7-2005 |
Thank you for these very encouraging words, Dennis. Wow! You really have a gift of encouragement. So do you, River! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9672 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dennis, I agree—your post above is so encouraging. Thank you for sharing it with us all. HonestWitness, I agree—God is using you even though you can't see how... He is faithful. Colleen | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 840 Registered: 7-2005 |
Asurprise, thank you for your encouragement, too. I've been pondering your comments about people not wanting to hear the Gospel, because they want to add some of their works to Christ's finished work. That is so profound and so true. Even in my Presbyterian church, which is supposed to be descended from Calvinism, people don't like to hear that the work of justification and sanctification are all done by God. A few months ago, we were discussing the passage about the seed being sown and some of it being sprinkled on rocky soil or the trodden down path. I asked whether the soil could have done anything to prepare itself for the seed, and the response was very interesting. Quite a few gave exclamations of, "Oh, good question!". One man said, "Oh, now you're getting into predestination!" And the teacher immediately changed the subject to avoid having to discuss it. *sigh* If we put even 99% of our faith in Christ, is that enough? Honestwitness | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1650 Registered: 4-2000 |
Honestwitness, Since even our faith is a gift from God, our Lord doesn't give us inadequate bestowals. His saving grace is more than enough for our needs. He has promised to complete the work begun in us (Phil. 1:6). Salvation is 100 percent of the Lord alone. God is not at our mercy for anything, but rather we are desperately at His mercy instead. Jesus taught that the ability to come to him is a gift from God (John 6:65). Both our physical and spiritual births are done for us. To God alone belongs all the glory! Dennis Fischer | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 842 Registered: 7-2005 |
Dennis, Thank you for stating this so clearly. This is what the Bible teaches, but it's so hard for us to humble ourselves enough to accept it. Indeed...to God alone belongs all the glory! Honestwitness |
