| Author | Message | ||
| Daisie_girl Registered user Username: Daisie_girl Post Number: 107 Registered: 9-2008 |
I attended a Missions Conference not too long ago in Portland. A great conference: I heard Josh McDowell speak and many other missionaries with testimony of how God is at work all over the world. I attended a lecture given by a teacher at Multnomah Bible College (non-SDA). The topic for discussion was: Are there many paths to one God or are there just many paths? The lecture was eye opening and everything about it reminded me of Adventism. A point that particularly stuck out to me was that "If I don't understand it, it must not be true." I cannot tell you how many times I heard, while being in the SDA circles this same question (of course left with no Scriptural answer)"How can a loving God condemn people to an eternity of pain and suffering?" If I didn't understand concepts of the Bible or even if my SDA friends had questions, we would settle with the conclusion that "Well, if I don't understand it and I don't "see" how it's supported in the Bible, then it must not be true." How subtle the Enemy works! And yet, people buy into this fallacy everytime! Like the Trinity! I cannot grasp the depth or even the simple truth of it's mystery . . .and yet, that does not make it not true! If that was the case, then the whole Bible would be false, because grace, salvation, Christ's perfection, justification, even Creation cannot be completely understood on the eternal levels that they are! Another point the speaker made was that in our generation and even in our culture, there is a strong presence of the evil of Post-Modern thinking. And unfortunately it has leaked into the Evangelical realms as well. We like to say that anyone can be a believer. Mormons, Adventists, Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses and even the neighbor down the street who is a pretty good guy and believes in his higher power can all be saved with there they are at - in their churches, in their homes, in their understanding of the Gospel. While we do not know everyone's hearts, the Bible is very strong, very EXCLUSIVE about how you come to the Father!! It's through Jesus Christ . . . period!! The Bible is NOT INCLUSIVE but EXCLUSIVE about who bears the fruit of the Spirit, who can truly know the Father! I know Adventism, at least in my small circle, anyone was viewed as a "Christian". And I think a huge part of why we can't or don't recognize truth when we see it, is simply because we don't know Christ!! We don't look to Him, to His example, to His deity! I'd love to hear your thoughts in response to this question! I'll close this thread with a wonderful excerpt from Paul. The verse not only ties in to the topic discussed but points everything back to how we must preach Christ AND Christ crucified! One cannot exist without the other! "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect. For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: 'I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.' Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to shoe who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." - 1 Corinthians 1:17-29 | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 70 Registered: 3-2009 |
I don't think that true Christians have a problem with the eternal hell idea b/c they're not going to be affected by it. Plus, they have learned to trust that God knows what He is doing and that He is both completely just and merciful. However, the "problem" comes in sharing the Gospel with non-Christians. Many non-Christians do not accept Christ for this eternal hell reason. I've spoken with several who cannot handle the concept b/c they do not know Christ personally & therefore don't have that level of trust in Him. They do not want to come to God with fear as the motive, so they choose not to come at all. Their reasoning is that they cannot give their heart and soul to a God who uses fear to manipulate like that. (Manipulation is how it appears to them b/c they're not born again). I'm not sure what Christians can do to break through that type of resistance... I believe they try to do so by making a significant effort to negate the eternal hell concept. | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 260 Registered: 8-2008 |
I would totally agree that a lot of Christianity has bowed the knee to the Baal of post-modernism. But I'd also say that a lot of the Christian apologists who condemn other Christians for bowing to post-modernism, have themselves bowed the knee to the Baal of modernism. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9651 Registered: 12-2003  |
Yes, post-modernism and modernism have captured the attention of many within Christianity. Jude's command to contend for the faith once for all delivered to the saints has never been more meaningful than today... Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4522 Registered: 9-2006  |
The word Christian is slung about like hash at a greasy spoon restaurant. I am awful touchy about the word Christian. But how is your leg?  River | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 295 Registered: 4-2007 |
Lost it's meaning - to have to define 'Christian' in a Christian discussion is disconcerting | ||
| Daisie_girl Registered user Username: Daisie_girl Post Number: 108 Registered: 9-2008 |
Bskillet, can you define what you mean when you said: "a lot of the Christian apologists who condemn other Christians for bowing to post-modernism, have themselves bowed the knee to the Baal of modernism." Just curious by what you meant! River, my leg is good! I'm walking now and off crutches . . .praise the Lord our wonderful Great Physician!! | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 262 Registered: 8-2008 |
Daisie, what I meant was that a lot of apologists seem to look at God and His gospel as if both are derived realities, rather than the ultimate reality upon which all else is based. They then try to use reason to deduce both of them, with this sort of stark rationalism being the hallmark of modernism. The problem is God is the ultimate I AM, the ultimate a priori reality, the foundational axiom upon which all deduction is based. As such, He cannot be deduced from higher first principles. We can only truly know Him if He chooses to reveal Himself to us. Then, all reality is interpreted from the basis of His self-revelation. As C.S Lewis once said (paraphrase), "I believe in Christianity like I believe in the sun: Not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." Anyone who claims he has a proof of God's existence is committing idolatry. For instance, the apologist Anselm defined God as "that above which nothing greater can be conceived." Then he used that definition to "prove" God's existence. What he did, without realizing it, is said God is entirely a concept within his own head. So he fabricated a god of his imagination and worshiped it, the very thing atheists say we do. You cannot "prove" God, because He is sovereign and free, and He shows Himself to whom He wills. Similarly, a lot of apologists will think they can make Christians simply via logical deduction. A Christian is born into the world (or re-born) by a miraculous act of Christ, through the agency of the Holy Spirit, regenerating man's spirit, and revealing Himself to man's spirit. This cannot be deduced or forced. It is much, much more than mere logical assent to certain propositions. Finally, apologists often look at, or describe, Christianity as if it is a list of factual propositions, much like modernism views ultimate reality. The Christian walk is not a mere list of facts, but the personal intimate knowledge of God in the person of Jesus Christ: "[T]his is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent" (Jn. 17:3). (Message edited by bskillet on April 13, 2009) |
