| Author |
Message |
8thday
Registered user
Username: 8thday
Post Number: 771
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 9:55 pm: |     |
Educational thread for me! I thought Adventism was just extreme Arminianism. Thanks for clearing that up! Had an sda recently tell me that she must uphold the "sacrosanct" of free will and would not consider any position that did not accept this point. hmmm.
Jody - My mom gave me those same CD's. If you made it all they way through them, you have a strong gastric system. I only made it through disc 2. The main thing I remember gagging on was that he was claiming the SDA church was the continuation of the reformation.. and they upheld the great truths of the reformers. Sounded like 1888 perspective, but I didn't get far enough into it to tell - a teaching through Romans wasn't it? Anyway.. interesting thread. |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1607
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 10:43 pm: | |
Colleen,
To his credit, Pope Benedict XVI deleted "limbo" from Catholic dogma. His reason for its removal is most commendable--it is unbiblical. Unfortunately, purgatory is still being taught. Consequently, devout Catholics tell me that it is highly unlikely that anyone will actually end up in hell forever because of the second chance offered in purgatory. I presume that this rosy claim alone makes it a very popular doctrine among the Catholic laity. The Worldwide Church of God also now believes that salvation is available after one's death.
The following link provides a thought-provoking, 10-page article on the Pelagian captivity of the Church: http://bible-researcher.com/sproul1.html .
Dennis Fischer |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 9517
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 10:50 pm: | |
Ahh--so it was limbo they got rid of! And yes, the Worldwide Church of God seems to be pretty much universalist today. At least Plain Truth magazine seems to be. I have to specify that the magazine is not an official publication of the WWCG, so whether or not Greg Albrecht has some beliefs that are different from the main church is something of which I'm not certain.
But the church itself does teach that salvation is available after death.
I really don't believe cults can be reformed successfully. People need to leave and become part of the body of Christ and become educated into a biblical worldview.
Colleen |
Bskillet
Registered user
Username: Bskillet
Post Number: 237
Registered: 8-2008
| | Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 9:45 am: | |
quote:I thought Adventism was just extreme Arminianism.
Adventists love to claim that the reason Evangelicals disagree with them is simply that most Evangelicals are Calvinist, while they are Arminian. This attemps to put them within the realm of orthodoxy, while not requiring them to actually believe the Gospel.
Sadly, this is wrong for a few reasons:
1) I doubt that most Evangelicals are Calvinists. It seems more that most Evangelicals occupy a space somewhere between Calvinism and Arminianism, but leaning more to the Calvinist side.
2) Even Arminians affirm some form of pre-destination. Their difference with Calvinists is how it works: They say it is based on God's foreknowledge. Calvinists say it is based on God's unconditional sovereign freedom. (As far as I understand Arminianism and Calvinism -- Please correct me if I am wrong.) Adventists, as far as I know, are dead set against any form of predestination because, as Pelagians, they believe salvation comes to those who will themselves into perfection of moral character.
3) Adventists are not Arminian for the simple fact that no Arminian I know of believes the Investigative Judgment doctrine. If they can find non-SDA who believes this and is an Arminian, then they might have an argument. But they cannot find a single one. |
Brian3
Registered user
Username: Brian3
Post Number: 197
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 10:38 am: | |
Calvminian!
Who's with me!
 |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 9520
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 2:30 pm: | |
Colleen |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 341
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 1:46 pm: | |
Interesting thread!
I just got back from preaching in Miskolc (which I'm sure means a lot to all of you - it is on the other side of Hungary from where I live, about 300 km away - OK, I know that is nothing in American terms), and from being shattered and busy the first couple of days back.
Anyway,
Not really totally on the subject - on my way to Miskolc, on Saturday night I stayed over at the Bible College where I used to teach, and chatted to some of my old students, and one of them said that for his diploma work on grace, he interviewed people about how they understood the term. According to the results, around 50% in the denomination believe that salvation is by faith plus works.
Now, I find that truly appalling, but perhaps somewhat of an explanation for why Adventists are accepted are Christians in this country.
Groan,
Adrian |
Jonvil
Registered user
Username: Jonvil
Post Number: 288
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 1:59 pm: | |
"Not really totally on the subject - on my way to Miskolc, on Saturday night I stayed over at the Bible College where I used to teach, and chatted to some of my old students, and one of them said that for his diploma work on grace, he interviewed people about how they understood the term. According to the results, around 50% in the denomination believe that salvation is by faith plus works.
Now, I find that truly appalling, but perhaps somewhat of an explanation for why Adventists are accepted are Christians in this country.
Groan,
Adrian"
50% seems low. Most Adventists will claim 'I'm not saved by my works BUT, if I don't..." (Adventists have big BUTs)
John Douglas |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 1860
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 7:40 pm: | |
I'm pretty sure that that Bible College is not SDA. That's what makes the percentage so sad. |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 4364
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 7:53 pm: | |
Doc, I'm with you (Groan). |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 342
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 12:33 am: | |
Sorry not to be clear Jonvil,
These are Pentecostals.
Adrian |
Jody
Registered user
Username: Jody
Post Number: 76
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 4:56 am: | |
Here is an interesting link.I think this is pretty accurate.
http://www.swrb.com/newslett/actualNLs/dave-hunt-jesuits.htm |
