| Author | Message | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 210 Registered: 8-2008 |
Have any of you shared my experience of listening to sermons by evangelical preachers, and hearing something that reminded you a bit of Adventism, and having a visceral reaction to it? Recently, I was listening to a sermon about how we're not under the law, and the preacher refered to the Decalogue as the universal moral law. I know that some Covenant, and maybe Dispensational, theologians interpret it this way, but they don't mean it in the same way Adventists do. Still I sort of grit my teeth when I hear it. Admittedly, the sermon was about how we're not under the Law anymore, a topic you would never hear preached in Adventism, so he certainly wasn't supporting Adventist-style theology. I know this concept goes back to Calvin and Luther, who in turn inherited it from the RCC. I know that the New Covenant Theology I favor is not well-known in the wider evangelical church because it is so new, so I know I shouldn't expect every one to have the same perspective. Is this just something I'm going to have to get used to in fellowshipping with other evangelical brothers and sisters? Should I let it bother me, if I know that otherwise the person speaking is committed to the gospel of justification by faith and salvation by grace? Is my queasiness just an irrational emotionalistic response based on the years of spiritual abuse at the hands of SDAism? | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 788 Registered: 7-2005  |
I've had the same reaction, Bslillet. I really get riled up when my fellow Presbyterians start talking like we should pass laws that make businesses close on Sundays. I've explained my position as an ex-Adventist over and over, but they just don't see it. I love them anyway and they love me too. At least they don't shun me for my different views. In fact, I'm leading a small-group Bible study that meets every other week. The person who was leading it asked who wanted to take over when she stepped down and I volunteered. She approved it instantly. She is one of the ones who most vociferously disagrees with me about whether the fourth commandment is still in force. Also, this same person asked me a week or so ago to facilitate a small group at our upcoming ladies' retreat. She obviously feels I pose no threat with my differing views. This person is an elder, by the way, and is also a retired university professor with a Ph.D. Honestwitness | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 412 Registered: 2-2008 |
I get the same reaction. It's an immediate revolting feeling that just makes my toes curl. We attended a church for awhile where the pastor preached a series on the 10 commandments. I was on high alert every weekend. He knew of my background and asked me for my opinion after he preached on the fourth commandment. In his defense, he did bring up different theologies regarding the fourth... but that he still thought "it was a good idea to rest one day out of seven". I thought he missed the boat about the whole shadow of what the Sabbath represents... but I had recently left the SDA church and still not well grounded. So I smiled and said the sermon was fine. Left it at that. I'm sure he knew I had problems with it. We don't attend there anymore. (not only for this reason but others as well). I agree with what Dale Ratzlaff said in his presentation last year at FAF... that pastors who preach that the 10C's are still in force make people prone to accepting Adventism. It's been almost 3 years since I left the church and I still get that "queasiness" that you described when I hear law related issues when it comes from the pulpit. If it's one on one... I don't let it go by. :-) ~vivian Honestwitness... I also love the fact now that I can freely discuss things in my Sunday School class... we can all disagree or agree on an issue and still walk away as family. | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 68 Registered: 10-2008 |
Wow, Thank you all for sharing . . . I thought I was strange for having the same type of reaction. Recently, in BSF (Bible Study Fellowship) they spoke of the commandments - going through Exodus. I had a viseral reaction in the large group lecture and my small group leader could see it . . . we talked briefly and she understood . . . You, know, it is almost like post traumatic stress disorder - except in a Biblical sense  . Like soldiers coming back from the war and hearing a car back fire - they react as if it were enemy fire. We hear a Biblical thing and it gets us in the gut. . . Hmm . . . Thankfully, He redeems and heals and encourages . . . Under His protective arms we can find refuge . . . JRT | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1407 Registered: 5-2007  |
My viseral reaction:
Yes, I sure have had such a reaction. About 14 years ago, I had a pastor preach that God changed the Sabbath to Sunday and he implied that everything associated with it applied to the "Christian Sabbath", Sunday. When I asked for Biblical references he said he could support this from the Bible but he didn't have time to do so but would get back to me. It never happened. He also departed from orthodox theology on several other points, so a group of us called for a "special congregational meeting". Alas, we were voted down with the congregation not really understand what the issues were. They assumed the problems were solved so we departed. Just like leaving Adventism, nobody ever came to me and ask me "what my problem was", except for one person who wanted to argue and another who said I should have simply left without making a fuss. Shortly later, The pastor had to step down because the problems existed even with us "trouble makers" gone. We formed a "house church". Our group included two Bible teachers, both piano players and one of the deacons. Now, after all these years I feel led to rejoin a "main line" church, so I am in the same boat as a lot of the rest of you, searching for the right home church to fellowship and become a part of. Even good evangelical preachers don't always understand that our "Sabbath Rest" is Jesus Christ. Some teach tithing and we all know where that leads. I have found a church that may be the right one for my wife and I, but time will tell. Phil | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6515 Registered: 3-2004  |
The only time I have felt like that in my church was at the yearly service where Jud talks of the church finances. He pays tithe but does not say all the congregation should pay tithe. When I hear the word "tithe" I immediately picture the guilt tripping done at all the SDA churches I attended. Diana L | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9417 Registered: 12-2003  |
Oh, yes--I've had that reaction, too! I used to have that reaction simply to hearing the word "obedience" mentioned from the pulpit...I finally realized that from a Christian perspective "obedience" is to Jesus, not to the law. Sigh. You know, Bskillet, it might be helpful to actually talk to your pastor or at least to give him a book to read. I have to say that our pastor has actually become more and more careful how he explains the law, etc. We have noticed a distinct change from when we first started attending Trinity. Now, if a passage Gary's teaching includes the word "law" in a general sense (for example, Psalm 119), Gary always includes an explanatory phrase such as "…the law—meaning the word of God…" He realizes there are people in the congregation that hear "law" and immediately think "10 Commandments", and he makes a point to accurately identify the underlying meaning. Also, when he preached through Romans, he very clearly explained that the law was entirely fulfilled in Jesus and we are no longer under it. He has definitely become increasingly clear about this matter as the years have passed. Just for what it's worth—I do see merit in speaking to your pastor. He may resist at first, but if he's really serious about every word of Scripture and teaching it accurately, it's possible he will begin to understand how the way he's teaching could be causing confusion. Colleen | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 717 Registered: 11-2007  |
It makes me crazy. Recently heard one pastor where we take our son for Youth group, not our church. He is going through Ezekiel and points out in the passages where God is rebuking them for defiling his Sabbaths, that the Sabbath was given only to the Jews. I had just sighed in relief when he turns around in the next few minutes and says, "The Ten C are not ten suggestions!" So... which way is it?? Make up your mind! ha. ARRGGHH!!!! ha. Sondra | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 217 Registered: 8-2008 |
Thanks all. Colleen, my wife and I have yet to find a church. The particular sermon I heard was on the internet. I'm not sure we're ready to find something formal yet. I am still getting used the the fact that a lot of Christians will disagree on some theology without resorting to casting dispersions on their brethren who don't agree with them. This is not the way it was in Adventism: Everyone had to toe the line of a very rigid doctrinal system. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9440 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, Bskillet, I understand. It's amazing to begin to be comfortable with the fact that Christians really aren't uptight (in general) about disagreeing over disputable matters. I've discovered that even people who I would have formerly thought to be not "deep" but who know Jesus really are true sister (or brothers) in Christ, and we can worship and study together meaningfully. The Holy Spirit is the true Unifier! Colleen |
