| Author | Message | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4090 Registered: 9-2006  |
As I read this morning 1 Samuel chapter 16 and I came to verse 7 where the Lord say’s he has rejected Saul. It says that God does not see as man sees, for mans looks at the out ward appearance and God looks on the heart. Adventism is so caught up with the outward appearance of following Sabbath rules and eats and so fourth and the pretense of religion hinders from true obedience to God. Just as Saul looked good on the outside, Adventism clothes itself in a pretense of religion. How terrible it would be to find one has been rejected by God. He looks on the heart to see if we have accepted his provided sacrifice, that of his dear Son. Adventism clothes itself in its own majesty and then looks in its own mirror instead of looking into the mirror of Gods word. Like a flat rock that is sailed to skim along the surface of the water, it skips along on the top of his word (proof texting) but never sinks into the water. But we must sink deep into the water that flows from the throne of God through his word and his Spirit, a surface skimming is not enough and a person who does this will surely come up short because his heart is sick and no amount of music played by the Christian will help him for long, it brings temporary relief, but a plunge back into Adventism, a little skipping across the top of Gods word and his heart is distressed again and has not healed. Like David, we must sink deep into Gods word and proclaim it as a lamp for our feet and a light for our path. Call on the Christian to play for you when your heart grows sick to death of the religious pretense Mr. Adventist and we will play for you the sweet music of the Gospel, But you will not be healed until you sink into the deep waters of the Spirit of God and allow him to heal your sick heart. When cognitive dissonance comes knocking, get into the word and open the door. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9376 Registered: 12-2003  |
River, this is profound. As I read it, Richard and I are multi-tasking, working on Proclamation and materials for the FAF weekend—and we have Loma Linda Broadcasting network online, playing the morning's LLU Church and Sabbath School services. I just listened to a Mr. Roeske present the week's Sabbath School lesson--and it concluded with his rhapsodizing about the work of Ellen White. He commented that he was "dazzled" (an appropriate word, I might add) by what God accomplished through a weak little woman. Adventism has completely bedazzled and blinded its members. The spirit behind the prophetess, behind the great deception claims them without their understanding. Truly, God's word would release them from this spell of Adventism if they would simply submit to the Bible and the conviction of the Holy Spirit and allow God's own word to speak truth to them. I love your final sentence, River—"When cognitive dissonance comes knocking, get into the word and open the door." Colleen | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 388 Registered: 2-2008 |
How true that is River... I have a friend that left the church years ago (possibly 10-20). She has been attending Sunday churches ever since. However, she says that everytime she thinks she has found a church she likes... a few months later she starts to feel guilty about not attending a church on Saturday. A lot of what she goes through is because she hasn't dug into God's word, searched it out to find out for herself Who Jesus really is. Growing up in Adventism (CA) I wasn't encouraged to really read God's word. Even my niece who was out visiting said that she is now finding truth in a book that's about a girl being raised in India. I told her that she needed to find truth in the Bible before she looked anywhere else for it. I think it's easy for her to go elsewhere for truth... after all, Adventism teaches to go to EGW's writings for truth. sad. It's a prayer we need to pray everyday, that Adventists read their Bible. ~vivian | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6448 Registered: 3-2004  |
Oh, I was told to read the Bible for myself. So I read it as I was taught, using proof texts, that I had marked in my Bible. When I read the books of Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, they scared the bejeebers out of me. Why?? I was taught that SDAs are spiritual Israel and I thought that whatever happened to them when they disobeyed would happen to me also. So, I quit reading the Bible when my son was a teenager. I let my 12 step program be my spiritual program. Than came Christmas of 2003 when the SDA pastor challenged our SS class to read the NT without any other help. The rest is history now. I have even thanked him for doing that. God arranged it. Thank you awesome God. Oh, Vivian, I grew up in So CA in the 1940s, 50s, 60s. Diana L | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9378 Registered: 12-2003 |
Vivian, there is a school of thought that overlaps into liberal Adventism that says everything good comes from God; therefore, we should appreciate the good we find in all cultures, belief systems, etc. Therefore, if the Buddhist religion, for example, honors peace and non-violence, we can embrace those things within Buddhism as gifts from God which those people have embraced. We don't have to avoid Buddhism; we just have to be selective and embrace only those good things that are from God. Also, there is a related idea that I've heard from more than one source (Adventist, I might add) that not ALL truth is contained in the Bible. For example, the laws of physics and the rules of geometry are not in the Bible. Therefore, it is limiting (and likely archaic and anti-intellectual) to embrace the Bible as the source of Truth and reality. Consequently, some "intellectual" (and objectively intelligent) Adventists (and I know this isn't limited to Adventism) will say that since the Bible is a source of truth--and truth of any sort is from God--they are essentially reading "scripture" when they read the daily newspaper or listen to Mozart or read Milton. So your niece is not that different from a lot of liberal Adventists. This attitude springs from a profound lack of understanding of who God is and of what the Bible really reveals. And as we know, the Bible really only reveals the truth of reality to those who have bowed the knee to the Lord Jesus and accepted His sacrifice for their intrinsic sin and have been born again. The Holy Spirit in us reveals His own words and truth in the words of Scripture. Colleen | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 279 Registered: 4-2007 |
Is it any wonder that Adventists look for ‘truth’ elsewhere? In their fanatical attempt to justify Ellen they reduce the bible to just a collection of ramblings. These posts brought to mind some quotes from an SDA ‘pastor’ and self-proclaimed theologian on another forum Quote "The Bible is inspired because it says it is inspired." If that's all you've got, then why is "the Book of Mormon is inspired because it says it is inspired" incorrect? Quote ”Do you not realize that citing the claim of any book as proof of the book's claim is circular reasoning?” Quote ”The truth is, most of us believe that the Bible is inspired because that is what we were taught.” Quote “Where does Scripture say "without error in the original writings"?” I’ll close with this final gem by the same ‘pastor’ Quote “I know of no Scripture that connects our salvation specifically with the resurrection.” I find it amazing that the bible he uses apparently does not contain 1 Corinthians 15:12-18 12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. John Douglas | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 389 Registered: 2-2008 |
Hi Colleen~ I have seen this same reasoning with a friend of mine who is deeply embedded in the Hebrew Roots movement. She accepts also writings from the Talmud, quotes from "Ancient sages" because (according to her) God's Word couldn't possibly contain all the truth or completely describe God. I've written to her and explained to her that everything that God needs us to know is in His Word. period. We don't have to search elsewhere to find some obsure information that is not in the Bible. I was wondering, does the emergent church follow this same path of reasoning? Jonvil~ It's unthinkable to believe that this person knows of no scripture that connects our salvation with the resurrection. My mom asked me (just after we told her about leaving the church) "What is so significant about Sunday?" I looked at her (thinking that you've got to be kidding me) and said "... you would not be a Christian today if Christ didn't resurrect from the dead... and He happened to do this on a Sunday." To me, the whole resurrection event to an Adventist is like a side dish. It's there... but not as important as the entree, the Sabbath. ~vivian | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 609 Registered: 5-2002 |
The whole of Scripture is about Jesus. And HE is everything God needs us to know about Him. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 633 Registered: 7-2007 |
When I was an Adventist, I would take that verse in Ephesians 2:8 where it says (to believers): "For by grace you HAVE BEEN SAVED through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God," and then I'd take Ellen White where she says that NO ONE SHOULD SAY THEY ARE SAVED and come up with a sort of "happy" medium. I would feel somewhat secure in my salvation then, but the security would never last - not even a full day! I could never put my full weight down on Jesus' finished work and the fact that those who accept Jesus' sacrifice for themselves are saved; so I was LOST, LOST, LOST. Only those people who put their full weight down on Jesus are saved and the Bible makes it clear that even their future sins are forgiven! None of the cults can fully believe in Jesus' finished work. The Roman Catholics believe that if they commit a mortal sin and die before they can confess to a priest, they will go to hell. Muslims believe that if their good works outweigh their bad ones, then they'll go to heaven. (I think the only time they have a "guarantee" of paradise is if they die blowing up "infidels!") Mormons believe Jesus saves them "after all we can do." (2 Nephi 25:23 in the book of Mormon. The next "verse" says that they are to "keep the law of Moses.") Adventists believe that too - only they split the law of Moses into commands Ellen White commands and commands that Ellen says are fulfilled. And Adventists have to wait until they have passed the "investigative judgment" and then if the get the Sabbath successfully stuck to their foreheads, they just might, JUST MIGHT be saved. They believe they won't know that they are until they've successfully passed through the "time of Jacobs trouble" and couldn't remember any of their sins. Ephesians 1:13,14 clearly says that the Holy Spirit is the Seal and that Christians are sealed WHEN THEY BELIEVE, not at some future time. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9384 Registered: 12-2003 |
Indeed, John! And then there's Romans 5:10: "For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!" And Hebrews 7:25: "Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always live to intercede for them." Colleen | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 281 Registered: 4-2007 |
Romans 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. He quoted this verse to establish his postion with this interpretation: "The term is "his life" which includes the resurrection. It also includes His ministry in heaven and His second coming." 'resurrection' becomes secondary rather than primary in importance. This is the same guy who stated: Quote "Certainly Jesus is the best. But God gives us 'much more.' And everything that He gives us is the best!". My former SDA pastor is trying to woo me back to his church by a book written by George Knight ‘The Apocalyptic Vision and the Neutering of Adventism’. In Chapter one he makes these statements: Quote ‘…if Adventism loses it’s apocalyptic vision, it has lost its reason for existing as either a church or as a system of education.’ ‘The next day in and on related discussion, someone made the point that more and more well-heeled, highly educated Adventist parents are sending their children to non-Adventist institutions. All admitted to that truth. But why, in what could be done about it? Became the focal point of discussion. I don't think it was explicitly a stated, but part of the answer is obvious. If Seventh-day Adventist institutions are Christians only in the sense that they have Jesus and the evangelical gospel, then any good evangelical school will do. And with that one stroke, we have removed any compelling reason for Seventh-day Adventist schools to exist. Even though they might be good institutions, no one can say that they are necessary ones. There is a difference between being a good school and having distinctive importance as an institution.’ End Quote This is just some more ‘Jesus is great but there’s so much more’, but also included is the absolutely false statement that the SDAC has ‘the evangelical gospel’, certainly not by any definition used by the First Evangelical Free Church I now attend! To compare the SDA ‘gospel’ to evangelical gospel goes beyond a reinterpretation or redefinition of the word, it’s a denial of the reality of what they actually teach. John Douglas |
