| Author | Message | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 605 Registered: 7-2007 |
I've been writing back and forth to one of my Adventist sisters and tonight I wrote to her on this topic. I quoted Ephesians 1:13,14 where it says: "...in Whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance..." I pointed out that it's obvious that the Holy Spirit is the Seal and that all those who accept the finished atonement of the Biblical Jesus is guaranteed salvation. I also pointed out Romans 8:9 which says that if a person "does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." If a person doesn't have the Holy Spirit, they don't know Christ. And if a person doesn't know Christ, He will say to them: "I never knew you. Depart from me." As well as sadness for the many relatives I have who are Adventist, I also have a sense of urgency because nobody knows what the future holds for themselves. A lot of my relatives are elderly, yet most of them won't listen when I try to tell them the gospel. 1st John 3:23,24 and 1st John 4:13 show us that having the Holy Spirit is what shows us that we are "in Him and He in us." Galatians 3:2 says: "This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" Paul goes on to identify "law" as coming from Mount Sinai in Galatians 4:21-25. It's sure a miracle from God when a person finds the freedom in Christ that the gospel brings. "Gospel" means "good news," but to an Adventist, what they believe isn't. | ||
| Jennyclarinet Registered user Username: Jennyclarinet Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2007  |
The first time my boyfriend and I stumbled upon the Ephesians verse together, he paused and said, "hm." I didn't want to say to him, "see? The seal of God is not the Sabbath," so I kept quiet, hoping that it was a revelation for him. We later discussed it, and he explained EGW's famous "the Sabbath is the seal of God" teaching in some tricky way. But last month, he attended the Greater Youth Conference in San Jose, and they are now teaching that there are two seals: the Holy Spirit, and the Sabbath, which is the end-time seal for God's remnant. He assures me that they proved this using the Bible (proof-texting, no doubt). I pray that those who received that message will at least believe in and accept the Holy Spirit, and the rest will take care of itself. And if anyone actually wants to hear this message, it's up at www.audioverse.org under Nathan Renner's speeches. | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 296 Registered: 1-2007 |
It sounds like the sda has gotten some flak from people questioning about the seal instead of Jesus so have had to add to their teaching by adding Jesus. Notice that they no way are going to let go of the Sabbath (because of egw) even though the N.T. shows that it is part of the law that has been done away with through the blood of Jesus Christ on the cross. I will pray that the egw veil will be removed from your boyfriends eyes and as he continues to study with you, he will keep open his mind to new teachings. Gail | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 606 Registered: 7-2007 |
The SDAs are mixing the two covenants. They take part of the Mosaic and part of the new; and make it into their own peculiar religion. That's why they have no assurance of salvation. Hebrews 8:13 makes it clear that we are in a whole new covenant now. "In that He says, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete..." Deuteronomy 4:13 and Deuteronomy 5 tell us what the first covenant was. Here Moses is talking to Israel: "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone." The Sabbath was a sign of that covenant between Israel and God. See Exodus 31:13; "Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord Who sanctifies you.'" Adventists who (like my sister) think that the two covenants were in effect at the same time from the beginning, are REALLY mixed up because Hebrews 9:15-17 makes it clear that the new covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus death. "And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death..." "For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives." The word "testament" means "covenant." To see what's what; a person needs to read the New Testament (New Covenant) for themselves. Nine of the commandments are re-commanded, but even though some of Paul's letters are addressed to Gentiles as well as Jews, he doesn't notify them that they have to keep the Sabbath. In fact he tells them that all the Sabbaths, (the yearly and seasonal, the monthly and the weekly) were all a shadow of Christ - Colossians 2:13-17. He tells the Romans that it doesn't matter if a person esteems one day more highly than another - Romans 14:5,6 and he gets quite upset with the Galatians for keeping days - Galatians 4:10,11. Both ends of the Bible warn against adding to God's words and Ellen White added plenty. Deuteronomy 4:2 warns against adding or subtracting from God's word and Revelation 22:18,19 also has a solemn warning. A person has to prayerfully read the Bible and the Bible only! Those who neglect the Bible and follow a "prophet" instead will be in deep trouble in the end times. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9303 Registered: 12-2003  |
You know, Asurprise, you are completely right. More and more I see that God confronts Adventists (everyone, really) with the truth. He has provided teachers and witnesses of Himself from the beginning until now, and He has given us His Son and His Word. There is no "excuse" for clinging to a false prophet. God gives Adventists the knowledge, resources, and His word that would clarify the truth to them. There really will be weeping one day when this reality becomes clear in judgment--the consequence of rejecting mercy. I think of what my MIL often says when she gets into a "corner" in her discussions with us; instead of following the biblical evidence to its logical conclusion, she'll end the discussion by saying in a somewhat complacent tone: "Someday we'll see...!" My best understanding is that she believes that her deep sincerity will "count" with God. Since she has so much to lose, since she has so diligently and earnestly given herself to Adventism, since the arguments are so confusing, she is sticking with what she believes is the truth, and somehow God will honor that loyalty to her perception of truth. She is a very intelligent woman--my best guess is that she has a (very) high IQ. So her problem is not mental fogginess or overwhelm. It is cognitive dissonance—and so far she has chosen to embrace what she has always believed to be true. I suspect that her own internal "loss of face" would overwhelm her...her reputation would be destroyed! (Already it's assaulted; her maiden name is Ratzlaff, and her married name is Tinker...) We keep praying for her...but more and more I feel the deep horror that this is not merely an issue of alternate understandings. This is an issue of life and death. Colleen | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 112 Registered: 8-2008 |
I think the more someone starts to know Jesus, the more they realize what they have isn't him: As I began to know Jesus, not just know facts about Him, but to know Him as a person, I began to see that, rather than being like Jesus, traditional Adventists were very much like the Pharisees He butted heads with. bskillet--Recovering Pharisee. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6372 Registered: 3-2004  |
bskillet, I have often thought of myself as a recovering Pharisee also. Especially since being involved in a Celebrate Recovery program. Hi, My name is Diana, I am a child of God in recovery from being a Pharisee. I like that. Diana L | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 113 Registered: 8-2008 |
Haha! Thx. I got that from a guy named Wayne Jacobsen. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 608 Registered: 7-2007 |
My relationship to God is SO much different than when I was an Adventist. While I was an SDA, as long as I went by my short checklist, I was "okay" I thought. My checklist was: 1. Make sure I wasn't doing some obvious sin. 2. Ask God to forgive all my sins (which I assumed only included my PAST sins.) I neither felt God's close loving Presence, nor His loving discipline, but I didn't know any better. Everything seemed to go on smoothly and I was utterly convinced that I was in the ONE TRUE CHURCH. (Looking back I don't know why I thought that way, except that I "bought" the whole thing, hook, line and sinker; from my Adventist pastors, from my upbringing and from stories I'd heard about Ellen White from which I assumed she was a true prophet, such as her holding up that heavy Bible. I feel a bit stupid now - I mean other false churches have "miracles" and the book of Revelation warns about demons doing miracles.) I was looking forward with excitement to the last days when I thought that I'd be running from the "Sunday keepers" into the mountains to hide. (I know, I'm probably weird.  ) I never dreamed that a real Christian is never a "Sunday keeper" or the "keeper" of any day. Never dreamed that a close personal relationship with God is really that; and that He leads me day by day and moment to moment. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6374 Registered: 3-2004 |
What I thought a true adventist was, and I did not call myself a Christian at the time, that I went to SS and church each week, I carried my Bible for all to see, I paid my tithe, had my house ready before sundown Friday, and had the proper dress for sabbath. On Saturday afternoons I spent out in nature. I was being a "good SDA"-a robot as I see it now. Then I read the NT and the gospel of John and learned how much God loves me and that what He wants with me is a relationship that will grow and grow, every day. What else can I say except He is so awesome. Diana L | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 457 Registered: 10-2006 |
Wow Bskillet, if people really get ahold of that, lives will change. Thanks so much for sharing that quote! That's what Seventh-day Adventism is all about - right doctrine; believing the right things, doing the right things and everything in the right way. Jesus is pushed to the back burner. Faith is an emphasis, but the object of that faith is not. | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 406 Registered: 1-2006  |
What a great thread! It's a blessing to just read this! Thanks to each of you. Asurprise, I just wanted to share along with what you wrote that in the Jerusalem Council, Acts 15, the Christians knew that the Jews in the synagogues would be continuing to teach the law of Moses (verses 19-21) . . . so it was necessary to write to them to get them to stop burdening the new believers, etc. The church leaders wanted to stop teaching the law of Moses as a requirement for salvation. They didn't just say, "Oh well, let them teach the 10 commandments if they want." And this is consistent with the spirit of the NC. One more thing. The parable of the Good Samaritan. None of the 10 commandments were broken by those who passed by the injured man! That's the point of the parable! They were innocent as far as the law of Moses was concerned. It just shows that as Christians we are motivated by love and compassion, spirit filled lives, not by the written code of Moses. Bob |
