| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1458 Registered: 11-2005 |
An Analysis of the Seventh-day Adventist Adult Bible Study Guide The Prophetic Gift => Heaven's Means of Communication => Sabbath Afternoon Resources:
“There was to be co-operation between man and God. But this plan was greatly interfered with by Adam’s transgression. Satan led him to sin, and the Lord would not communicate with him after he had sinned as he did when he was without sin.Where does it teach that Christ acted in God's stead as Adam's instructor? Wasn't Christ fully God? This concept presents Jesus not as Almighty God but as an agent of God. The quote from Conflict and Courage states that after the fall, Jesus communicated with man instead of God communicating with him. Jesus was not merely another revelation of God and His will in a category with the prophets and the angels. In Jesus all the fullness of deity dwelt bodily (Colossians 1:19). Jesus was God (John 1:1), not merely one-third of God or an emanation of God or even one whom God exalted to the position of His Son as E. G. White stated in Spiritual Gifts, Vo. 3, P 376 and Early Writings p. 145. Genesis 3 reveals God speaking face-to-face with Adam and Eve after the fall, telling them the consequences of sin and giving them the promise of a coming Redeemer who would crush the serpent’s head. Jesus further stated the complete unity he had with the Father in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one,” and John identifies Jesus this way: “No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known” (John 1:18, ESV). Here, once again, the cultic nature of Seventh-day Adventism is revealed. Here we have the "Adventist Jesus." Jesus is God, not an agent of God in the category of prophets or angels. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6193 Registered: 3-2004  |
WOW!!! Since leaving adventism I have learned, contrary to what I learned in SDA schools first grade through graduation from LLU, that Jesus is God. I do not understand the Trinity. That does not matter as I know Jesus and know that He and the Father are one. Jesus IS GOD!!! Diana L | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 582 Registered: 7-2007 |
When I was an Adventist, I believed that Jesus was fully God. I never heard any preaching or teaching that said anything else. It wasn't until after I found that the Adventist church was false and came out of it, that I found what Ellen White wrote in her book; "Spirit of Prophecy" vol. 1 in the second paragraph of the first chapter. (Page 17 in the book I have) I would have been shocked if I'd read that when I was an Adventist! All the people who've left false churches to follow the Jesus of the Bible have left "Babylon." Ellen White wrote that people who join the Adventist church "leave Babylon," but in reality, those who leave ANY false belief system, leave Babylon - including the Adventist church! (Whether it's Islam, Adventism, RCC, JW, LDS, etc.) I think most Adventists are ignorant of the roots of Adventism that said that Jesus wasn't fully God. (Or they come up with an excuse, like one of my Adventist relatives did, saying that Ellen White's early writings were merely an "outline" and that she wasn't done writing yet. As if the "outline" didn't have to be accurate in order for the following writings to be!!!!!) | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 316 Registered: 7-2004 |
Oh, they come up with more excuses for what she wrote than anything I've ever heard of! Well, maybe about as much as politics, which is what it reminds me of, all the cover up, double talk, let's just look good and brush the dirt under the rug! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9197 Registered: 12-2003  |
Well, the first week's commentaries are up. You can access them here: http://www.biblestudiesforadventists.com/index.html Whew...praise God He redeems the past!! (Writing these was really wading through the "old swamp", so to speak...) Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 3909 Registered: 9-2006  |
I wanted to write an analysis on the lesson for Thursday. Jan. 15th and I probably will. If I do I will use scripture as a means to that end. But as I read through these individual portions I was struck by the total biblical ignorance of the person or persons that set these studies up. This thing is so totally out of bounds as to be beyond belief. Where does one start to refute such a complete idiot? I am upset, I am ripping angry at such unequivocal stupidity dripping out of the mouth of a man who would even dare call himself a Christian. This kind of drivel is blight on the earth and I would rather deal with dope addicts and drunkards. I would rather de-breed a four inch puss filled bed sore than to try to de-breed this cancerous mess! River | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1461 Registered: 11-2005 |
You really put in a marathon yesterday. It's going to take me the rest of the week just to catch up. I'm thinking about pulling out my old SDA church directories and encouraging each of them to study the 1Q2009 adult Sabbath School Lesson -- armed with your excellent study guides. They are bound to generate an unparallelled level of discussion within the Sabbath School classes. Thank you so much for all your hard work! Gilbert | ||
| Jody Registered user Username: Jody Post Number: 65 Registered: 7-2007 |
Colleen, this is great stuff,is this the first quarterly that this has been done? Keep up the great work! My prayers are with all of u working in the front lines. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1463 Registered: 11-2005 |
As former Adventists we are learning so much more about what Adventism teaches. We need to enocourage all of our Adventist friends to get involved in the study of their adult Sabbath School Lessons. There is a lot of good material in the works. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6202 Registered: 3-2004 |
I am learning so much about what EGW wrote about God. How wrong she is!!! I am praying for those who are doing the Bible study for Adventist. God will use them. Diana L | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1464 Registered: 11-2005 |
Diana, you should look at all the excellent topics that are lined up.
Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6205 Registered: 3-2004 |
Gilbert, who is doing all the writing for all of this. Is this what you and Tall73, and others on CARM were talking about doing? God bless all of you. I will be praying for all of those writing. Diana | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 418 Registered: 10-2006 |
Wow! Praise the Lord! This stuff has just been handed to us. I can't wait until 2011! Galatians! - how exciting!...and the topics for this quarter are, too! I'm just wondering, are you guys all collaborating? Can this stuff be posted in more than one place? Can we get this to the top of the google search list? Is any kind of a forum for Adventists to discuss the stuff in the works? What do you think is the best way to get the word out? Thank you so much for all the research you and Colleen (and any others) are doing! May it bear much fruit for Jesus! I'm praying for you! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 3910 Registered: 9-2006 |
Sorry about the vent. | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 265 Registered: 4-2007 |
Oh! Were you venting? Seemed like a calm and reasoned commentary to me, of course, that's comparing it to previous posts. Now, what do you get when you slaughter a hog? Go pork chops John | ||
| Lrcrabtree Registered user Username: Lrcrabtree Post Number: 76 Registered: 1-2007  |
Colleen, thanks so much for heading up this effort. I've been reading the material daily (so far I've kept up...lol). Today's material on nature, weeds, and sin really ticked me off, to be blunt. It is one more example of the little small things that I was taught as a child in the SDA church which I have never thought to review. But this study has opened my eyes to one more false teaching in a plethora of them. I was always taught, and believed, that weeds were the work of satan. However as we all know, a weed is just a plant where you don't want it -- and even the most obnoxious weeds play a role in the ecosystem, macro or micro....so are they really bad? To know that they are not the result of some magic of satan is actually refreshing and awe inspiring - because, as you said, satan did not and does not have the power to undo God's creation, only God has that power. How satisfying and relieving is that knowledge. I was raised hiking and fishing in the mountains all the time, and I saw God's handiwork in tons of natural 'things' - let me take you for a walk in the woods someday and I'll show you things that I'll bet you never saw before. This new (to me anyway) knowledge that God and only God is responsible for all nature is so overwhelming, now it all meshes together... Thanks again...wow... Larry | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6211 Registered: 3-2004 |
Colleen, dumb me, I read that you were doing all that writing and then ask who is doing it. Thanks so much. God is using you with this forum and with those lessons. Diana L | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 416 Registered: 1-2004  |
To provide commentary on the SS lessons seems a worthy endeavor. I'm sure that it will help a few Adventists to dig deeper and perhaps it will even make some take a different view than they previously held. After reading the comments on the lessons located at http://www.biblestudiesforadventists.com I felt the urge to dig up some really old commentary on the subject. I looked up the "Demonstration of the Apostolic Preaching". It is a document that is only preserved for us by the Armenians. (Not the Arminians... no, the Armenian Apostolic Church, the country of Armenia.) This was written by Irenaeus of Lyons in about 200 AD. I immediately noticed the lack of confusion about Jesus being God, in Irenaeus' understanding;
One area of disagreement that I have personally with the commentary at http://www.biblestudiesforadventists.com/2009/quarter1/week1/sabbathschool7.html is the concept that "the righteousness of God" is defined as God punishing Jesus for the sins of the world so that we could be forgiven. Let me try to state this a little clearer. Romans 3:21-26 quite clearly shows that God demonstrated His righteousness in sending Jesus as a propitiation by his blood. If we interpret this as God witholding forgiveness until Jesus gets punished, and then we say that we want God's righteousness to be our righteousness, if we were to follow through with this, we would be the type of people who don't rest until we get payment for wrongs done to us. Obviously this definition of righteousness is not what Eastern Orthodox Christians ascribe to. And I'm not trying to start an argument with anyone. I'm simply going to point out that there is an alternative and that this alternative is very well represented in Christian history. For instance, notice how Irenaeus explains the reason for Jesus' death;
You see the picture of God presented here? We are to be merciful as God is merciful. Jesus taught us that we are to be like God. Irenaeus teaches what has been classified as the "recapitulation" theory of the Atonement. I would suggest that this view of God is both ancient and true to the description of the Father as given by Jesus. All quotes from Irenaeus found here; http://www.ccel.org/ccel/irenaeus/demonstr.preaching_the_demonstration_of_the_apostolic_preaching.html Jeremiah | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9204 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jeremiah, I don't think we said (or meant to say!) that God withheld forgiveness until He punished Jesus. The point was that God withheld punishment until Jesus took the sin and death for sin onto Himself. God had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished, and God showed He was both just and the justifier when Jesus took the punishment for sin. After Jesus shed His blood, however, the new, living way was opened by which we could come directly before God, clothed with Christ's own righteousness. Of course people were saved by faith in God and His promises before the cross, but the permanently indwelling Holy Spirit didn't "happen" until that new, living way was opened. In other words, our intimacy with God is at a new level since the veil was torn. The commentary for the rest of the quarter will be contributed by different authors. Dale Ratzlaff, Chris Lee, Richard Tinker, Martin Carey, Roy Tinker, and others will contribute lessons. Colleen | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 258 Registered: 10-2005 |
Colleen do you have a contact us link on here for the studies? or will you have? just wondering if your having any response from any one yet? Dawn |
