| Author | Message | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 610 Registered: 11-2007  |
Isn't this exactly the opposite of what another author wrote somewhere???
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| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 320 Registered: 7-2004 |
That must be why Desmond Ford could not agree with EGW. I think he studied a lot of Christian authors including Spurgeon. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 3923 Registered: 9-2006  |
From what I get from my own group of Adventist, Paul is not a great favorite of them and it seems they don't believe Paul over their own method of proof texting the whole Bible. Not only that but it seems they think the Bible was written under different circumstances than the most common evangelical Christian, so they excuse this plain language in favor of what they have been taught. Most evangelicals believe that the Bible is the word of God as it is written, if that is so it cannot fail, nor will God skip over his word to make excuse for any of us, be we Adventist or what. It seems to me his Word would have to come to pass. It would be up to us to line up with his word, it wouldn't be up to him to line his word up with us. He has already spoken it. It says in John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Seems to me that is pretty plain language. Spurgon must have believed the Bible was Gods own word, line for line. From what I have read of him it seems he did, not that just because he was Spurgon that he was always right in everything he said. River River | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 611 Registered: 11-2007 |
Right on River, Spurgeon isn't the authority in his own words, but in measure that he echos the Word of God (but I love his direct, forceful style of communicating his thoughts). I was really struck how even in the wording, this could have been a direct rebuttal to the other infamous quote. Very sweet! ha. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1568 Registered: 4-2000  |
Check out some great sermons by Charles Spurgeon, the Prince of Preachers, at www.spurgeon.org. Our sovereign God mightily used Spurgeon to help bring many souls to faith without any altar calls. Indeed, salvation is from the Lord alone. It was Charles Finney who later invented the "anxious bench" or altar call as it known today. Charles Spurgeon also employed about 60 colporteurs in his extensive ministry in England. Dennis Fischer (Message edited by Dennis on January 05, 2009) | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1569 Registered: 4-2000 |
Correction: The website for the sermons and writings of Charles Spurgeon is http://spurgeon.org . Dennis Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9225 Registered: 12-2003  |
Excellent quote and point, Sondra. Bb, although Desmond Ford disagreed with EGW re:the investigative judgment, he never did abandon her, somehow continuing to consider her significant in some way. He does still believe God used her. I've not figured out how he can function with the dissonance this position must create, but there you have it! Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 3924 Registered: 9-2006 |
Dennis, I doubt that Spurgeon himself would agree with your constantly referring to him as “The prince of preachers” and in so doing allowing himself even a hint of absconding with any of the Lord’s glory. I think Spurgeon was a humble man and not a stiff tree that could not be bent to learn of other men and women of God. A Quote from Spurgeon: Most atrocious things have been spoken about the character and spiritual condition of John Wesley, the modern prince of Arminians. I can only say concerning him that, while I detest many of the doctrines which he preached, yet for the man himself I have a reverence second to no Wesleyan; and if there were wanted two apostles to be added to the number of the twelve, I do not believe that there could be found two men more fit to be so added than George Whitefield and John Wesley. The character of John Wesley stands beyond all imputation for self-sacrifice, zeal, holiness, and communion with God; he lived far above the ordinary level of common Christians, and was one "of whom the world was not worthy." I believe there are multitudes of men who cannot see these truths, or, at least, cannot see them in the way in which we put them, who nevertheless have received Christ as their Saviour, and are as dear to the heart of the God of grace as the soundest Calvinist in or out of Heaven. (end quote) I know a women whom I have respect for above all of the men and women that I have ever heard preach who has made many an “Alter call” and saw many a tear shed in repentance because of it. A women who would stand praying with them from five o’clock in the evening till the breaking of day and without one complaint. I respect her not for her rightness of every bit of theology, but for the fact that she has laid down her whole life in every waking moment for the cause and the love of Christ, choosing to remain poor that others might become rich in Christ Jesus. Yet few would know her name. There has been many a man and women who have achieved fame under the cause of the gospel of Christ, yet there has been many a man or women who have suffered in poverty and obscurity in silence with never a complaint. Which one of these great men or women of God should we hold up a sign over their heads as “The prince of preachers?” There was one prince of preachers who walked this earth and that was Christ the prince of peace. I don’t say this in rebuke, but to spur you to thoughtfulness. Here is another quote from Spurgeon that a man might consider: Quote: The system of truth revealed in the Scriptures is not simply one straight line, but two; and no man will ever get a right view of the gospel until he knows how to look at the two lines at once. (end quote) Notice Spurgeon said “IF there were wanted two apostles to be added to the number of the twelve.” When we consider all the great men and women of God that have laid it all down for the cause of Christ and have spent every waking moment in prayer and supplication and ministry for the sake of others, men and women who have given up their living rooms to the constant flow of humanity in need of a touch of the saviors hand, to which of these shall we endear the term “Prince of preachers”? When I consider it I have to throw up my hands and declare “To God be the glory!” River | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 614 Registered: 11-2007 |
God brought me to surrender through an altar call. Not that he could not have done it any other way, but my stoic hard shell was broken through the invitation and the realization of the true nature of my sin in one big moment of revelation. I go to a church now that never ever gives an invitation. You must go hunt down an anti-social pastor and elder if you have any questions about how to be saved. I don't think I personally would have ever had the courage to do that. I have a bigger problem with churches deciding "this is THE way we do things" and not be open to the direction of the Holy Spirit on a given day or situation. But then, this church doesn't seem to believe in that either, which I have found to be really sad. Everyone is different, and God is not limited by any of man's "methods". With some people he reaches down and yanks their chain while they are sitting in their living room. Others are drawn other ways. Why would we want to put the Creator of the universe in a box? It amazes me so greatly that some of the greatest defenders of his Sovereignty have him locked in the most tightly sealed container. Can God can save people without altar calls? Yes! Has His Spirit moved on millions of people in public invitations to come to Him? Yes. I see the entire Bible as an altar call - inviting mankind to believe and be saved. It's not the method that matters as much as the invitation itself. Sondra | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6255 Registered: 3-2004  |
Yes, yes, yes Sondra. God called me as I sat at my computer 5 years ago and read about EGW. As I read the NT, I just followed where He lead me and that was out of adventism. Thank you awesome God. Diana L | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 322 Registered: 7-2004 |
I agree with you Sondra. Well said. Colleen, it is very odd that Desmond never abandoned her. I guess I found his life interesting in that he even dared to challenge her! I read his book "Jesus Alone" and I noticed that he quoted many authors, but when he quoted her, all he said was "I picked up an old book" and never mentioned who the author was. I could tell it was her book. I may be wrong but I think he doesn't quote her because of the fact that he knew he was probably quoting her assistants or another book entirely and couldn't truthfully say she was the author!!! Interesting but strange indeed. | ||
| Lifeanew Registered user Username: Lifeanew Post Number: 188 Registered: 10-2007 |
Amen Sondra! Jan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9228 Registered: 12-2003 |
Amen again, Sondra! I so believe that God is not limited by any of man's methods. I'm also so compelled by the Spurgeon quote River posted above: The system of truth revealed in the Scriptures is not simply one straight line, but two; and no man will ever get a right view of the gospel until he knows how to look at the two lines at once. I have never seen this quote before, nor did I know Spurgeon said that. It is exactly the conclusion I have reached as well. To read that Spurgeon said this is really affirming to me in some significant way... As M. Scott Peck said several years ago in his book A Different Drum (and I am not endorsing this book--I read it as an SDA and found it challenging then; I'd probably recommend other books now, but God does not waste anything!), but anyway, he said one thing in that book that I believe is true and profound: Truth is always a paradox [meaning two things that appear mutually exclusive but both are true]. He gave some examples, such as God is transcendent (beyond us and different from us) but also immanent (He lives in us). A man must lose his life to find it. The first shall be last, and the last shall be first. Etc. Then Peck said this—and I find that the more I learn and grow, the more I believe this is true: If anyone teaches only one-half of the paradox, he teaches heresy. Thank you, River, for the Spurgeon quotes above. I have long had great respect for Spurgeon, and to learn that he also saw that there are two lines of truth that must be seen together, holding in tension what we cannot explain but knowing that God cannot lie, and that God "gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were" (Rom 4:17b)...well, it was a confirmation that is really meaningful to me. Thank you again, River. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 3927 Registered: 9-2006 |
Spurgeon realized it, I have realized it for some time. If you fail to realize it, it is like trying to sit on a one legged stool so to speak. If you read one scripture you have to tilt this way, then you read another scripture and you tilt that way. If you get rigid about either leg of this stool you become useless more or less. Or it may be like looking at a set of rail road tracks at eye level, all you see is one track and not all of that track, but if you look at the two while standing over the tracks you can see the two tracks plainly. Once I was able to see that these two lines could co-exist equally it really became a comfort and it so increased my faith. I could look at the two lines at once, and while looking down them as far as I could see, like looking down a long straight rail road track they seem to merge together in the distance. Perhaps that is the best explanation of all right there, when you are able to look at the two that is when they merge into one. That probably was not put very well. Spurgeon, I am sure could have done much better. You can call me crazy, just don't forget to call me to dinner. But nevertheless I have come to be able to see down those tracks and it brings satisfaction, I then know that I am truly free, yet it is God who holds me up. I think things Spurgeon saw that Wesley and Whitefield taught that he despised was the lack of security in Christ, which is exactly the same thing I have come to despise about the Adventist doctrine and I despise the fear it brings to souls in my own church, yet I do not despise the folk I have come to know and love. Its very hard to explain a thing like this and I don't know whether I really ever could or not should an explanation be demanded of me. But so far God hasn't ask for any and its none of anyone else's affair. River | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1570 Registered: 4-2000 |
While the heresy of "Open Theism" is now storming sophisticated Adventist circles, it actually demeans all aspects of biblical slaughterhouse theology. In stark contrast, Charles Haddon Spurgeon believed that the blood of Jesus continues to cleanse and to save once it is applied.
Spurgeon concluded that not one hair was rearranged by the wings of the destroying angel where the blood was properly applied to the doorpost. Those who have been greatly blessed by his extraordinary sermons continue to be amazed at his giftedness at a very early age. The following gem of truth reveals his passion for godly living: "The grace that does not change your life will not save your soul." Moreover, even reading a biographical sketch about this great preacher and prolific writer will further bless your soul. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9231 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dennis, I totally agree that open theism is horrific. Absolutely, Spurgeon is right again: the blood of Jesus eternally saves us and makes us secure when we are washed by it. "There is not a shadow of a risk of my perishing." Amen! Thanks for this quote also, Dennis! Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1571 Registered: 4-2000 |
Biographical Sketch of Charles Spurgeon Charles Spurgeon was born on June 19, 1834 (the firstborn of eight surviving children) at Kelvedon, Essex, England. His parents were committed Christians, and his father and grandfather were both preachers. Spurgeon was converted in 1850 at the age of fifteen. He began to help the poor and to hand out tracts; he was known as "The Boy Preacher." At the age of merely eighteen, he became the pastor of Waterbeach Baptist Chapel, preaching in a barn. Spurgeon preached over six hundred times before he reached the age of twenty. Spurgeon's compelling sermons and lively preaching style drew multitudes of people, and many came to Christ. Soon, the crowds had grown so large that they blocked the narrow streets near the church. Services eventually had to be held in rented halls, and he often preached to congregations of more than ten thousand. The Metropolitan Tabernacle was built in 1861 to accommodate the large numbers of people. Spurgeon published over thirty-five hundred sermons, which were so popular that they sold by the ton. At one point, his sermons sold twenty-five thousand copies every week. The prime minister of England, members of the royal family, and Florence Nightingale, among others, went to hear him preach. Spurgeon preached to an estimated ten million people throughout his life. Not surprisingly, he is affectionately called the "Prince of Preachers." In addition to his powerful preaching, Spurgeon founded and supported charitable outreaches, including educational institutions. His pastor's college, which is still in existence today, taught nearly nine hundred students in Spurgeon's time. He also founded the famous Stockwell Orphanage. Charles Spurgeon, the PK (preacher's kid), died in 1892, and his death was mourned by many. [The preceding information was gleaned from "About the Author" of Grace and Power by Charles Spurgeon, page 6] In awe of His saving grace, Dennis Fischer | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 3930 Registered: 9-2006 |
Its too bad the Adventist cannot see the type and shadow that Spurgeon mentioned in that sermon for it is a perfect look at what was to come. River | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1572 Registered: 4-2000 |
Snackbars for the Soul
Have a good and godly day! Dennis Fischer (Message edited by Dennis on January 07, 2009) | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1575 Registered: 4-2000 |
Spurgeon quotes a good woman who said: "The Lord must have loved me before I was born, or else He would not have seen anything in me to love afterwards." Dennis Fischer |
