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| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 340 Registered: 2-2008 |
I've been discussing back and forth with a friend of mine about the Law (keeping the Law, feasts, etc.) She is not Adventist or a former Adventist. She believes that when you come to God that you become a part of the house of Israel. If you are a part of the house of Israel, then you should be keeping the Law as they did. This is the pattern she has seen in the OT when a person joined the Israelites through circumcision. I've been telling her that we don't come into covenant with God through the Law. That we, being heirs with Christ who is the Promised Seed, are now sons of Abraham and receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Since we are sons of Abraham, and the Law came after, we are not obligated to keep the Laws given to Moses. So my question is this... in regards to Jer. 31: Jer 31:33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. If we are sons of Abraham, why do we apply in this verse "the house of Israel" to us? ~vivian | ||
| Brian3 Registered user Username: Brian3 Post Number: 180 Registered: 8-2005 |
My take. Jesus at the last supper did make/confirm a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah as represented in the disciples. We do not become a part of Israel. Believing Jews and Believing Gentiles became/become a NEW entity. Eph 2:10-20 HCSB For we are His creation--created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them. (11) So then, remember that at one time you were Gentiles in the flesh--called "the uncircumcised" by those called "the circumcised," done by hand in the flesh. (12) At that time you were without the Messiah, excluded from the citizenship of Israel, and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, with no hope and without God in the world. (13) But now in Christ Jesus, you who were far away have been brought near by the blood of the Messiah. (14) For He is our peace, who made both groups one and tore down the dividing wall of hostility. In His flesh, (15) He did away with the law of the commandments in regulations, so that He might create in Himself one new man from the two, resulting in peace. (16) He did this so that He might reconcile both to God in one body through the cross and put the hostility to death by it. (17) When Christ came, He proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. (18) For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. (19) So then you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with the saints, and members of God's household, (20) built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone. | ||
| Brian3 Registered user Username: Brian3 Post Number: 181 Registered: 8-2005 |
Steve Lehrer says it better than I can: It is absolutely essential that we see that the promise of the New Covenant in Jeremiah that was made to the picture of the people of God is actually fulfilled in the real people of God (all believers, both Jews and Gentiles) through the work of Christ on the cross. A central theme in Scripture is “God’s chosen people.” In the Old Covenant Scriptures, Israel is that chosen people. But in the New Testament this chosen people concept undergoes some changes. There is a movement from Israel being God’s chosen people to God choosing His people from nations through the blood of Christ: And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth” (Revelation 5:9, 10). God promised the people of Israel that they would be His people if they obeyed: “Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites (Exodus 19:5, 6). God’s New Covenant people, the church, are God’s chosen people who He transforms. This is not an “if, then” proposition. God simply makes the church His people: But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10 quoting Exodus 19:6 and Hosea 2:23). In the book of Ephesians, the Apostle Paul refers to the work of Christ as a work that makes Jews and Gentiles into one new group of people, God’s people: For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit” (Ephesians 2:14-18). In Hebrews 10, the author of Hebrews writes about the one perfect sacrifice of Christ and contrasts it with the ineffective sacrifices of the Old Covenant priesthood: Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy (Hebrews 10:11-14). We have seen in Revelation 5 and Ephesians 2 that Christ’s sacrifice was made for people from all nations. The author of Hebrews goes on to tell us that Christ’s sacrifice is the fulfillment of the promise in Jeremiah 31: The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says: "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds." Then he adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more” (Hebrews 10:15-17). God, through the author of Hebrews, tells us that Jeremiah 31 and the New Covenant is about Christ’s perfect sacrifice for His people. Our God makes it clear in His word that His true people that are part of the New Covenant are from all nations. The Israelites would have read Jeremiah 31 and thought that the New Covenant restoration was exclusively for them. But when God interprets His own word He tells us that this is simply not the case. Because of the work of Christ, people from all nations that repent and believe can be forgiven of their sins and can worship God: Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water (Hebrews 10:19-22). It seems that to understand the work of Christ (which is the New Covenant) as applying to ethnic Israel because the Old Covenant context demands it, makes a fundamental mistake in biblical interpretation. The mistake is reading the New Testament through the lens of the Old rather than the other way around. | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 341 Registered: 2-2008 |
Thanks Brian for your input. I'm running into a brick wall with her. I understand that there is a new entity that is made up of both Jews and Gentiles. I believe that our position before God is solely dependant on Christ not being a part of Israel. My friend believes that when a person comes to accept Christ and know God, we will keep God's ways which are the laws given to Moses. So she reads in Jeremiah that we are to be joined into the house of Israel... and if we are in the house of Israel, then we are subject to the laws given to Israel at Mt. Sinai. I've been telling her that we are sons of Abraham and heirs to the promise through Christ. Since the Law was not given to Abraham, we are not subject to the laws given to Moses. So you can see the dilemma I'm having... the house of Israel would be clearly people that were given the law. Why would we want to be identified as the house of Israel when we are sons of Abraham? ~vivian | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9234 Registered: 12-2003  |
Vivian, romans 3:21 through Romans 4 really explains this phenomenon. Jews and Gentiles alike are under the new covenant, and the righteousness of God is revealed apart from the law. Ephesians 2-3 also explain this formation of one new body. Thanks, Brian, for the great quotes and comments. Colleen | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1659 Registered: 10-2002  |
In sum, The promises & covenants were originally given to Israel, but through the gospel, Gentiles are one body with Israel, heirs together with Israel to the same promises. Bless you in Jesus! Ramone | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6267 Registered: 3-2004  |
Vivian, Will your friend read the New Testament and put aside the Old for now? If she will, ask her to read the NT starting with the gospel of John. Then read the other gospels and the rest of the NT leaving Hebrews and Revelation for last. I say read the gospel of John first as that is where I saw and learned how much the Father loves me. I also say leave Hebrews and Revelation for last because when I read the rest of the NT first I had a better understanding of Hebrews and Revelation. That is how I experienced it. Diana L |
