| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1467 Registered: 11-2005 |
I'm not sure what the relationship is between this news article and the other one so I'm posting it into a separate thread. This definitely deserves more research! Rather than reposting all of what is going on, I will just direct you to the CARM link where I have posted the latest information: http://www.christiandiscussionforums.org/v/showthread.php?t=148671 | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 426 Registered: 10-2006 |
Am I reading this correctly that the highest level officials of the General Conference of the Seventh-day Adventist church ordered a pastor to steal sacred items belonging to a Jewish Synagogue and refuse to give them back? Am I understanding correctly that this happened in July - and that nothing has happened to anybody in the legal system? I'm wondering why this hasn't made the national news. This is absolutely outrageous! What about the 8th commandment? Aren't they believers in the ten commandments? I wonder what they are telling themselves to justify this behavior. I'm also wondering why they wanted those things. Could this be one of those times when the end justifies the means? Stealing must be OK - if your really, really want it - right? | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6234 Registered: 3-2004  |
Either that or they have some one in their pocket. It is outrageous that any religious group would do something like this. They have no room to criticize anyone. Of course they never did, but with the internet word goes around the world so fast it is hard to keep any secret. The end justifies the means, like the Revelation Seminars. Do not tell who sponsors them until you have the victims hooked. Same difference. The longer I am out of adventism the more I see what the GC is like. The general SDA at the local church level does not know any of this. I think SDAs have their own search engine also. Trying to keep the people in their grasp. Diana L | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1468 Registered: 11-2005 |
From what I can tell it appears that this may have been orchestrated by undercover Adventists posing as Jews. It is all one big mess. Perhaps someone has more information on this. At ther very least it doesn't look like everything wa above-board. And who actually owns the jewishadventist.com domain name? And what is the relationship to the GC sueing the jewishadventist group in San Diego? This is as bad as those revelation seminars that start at a highschool and end up at an SDA church. Why is it that deception is needed to promote the Adventist "Good News"? | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 427 Registered: 10-2006 |
Gilbert, where (or how) did you hear about this? Why do you think this hasn't made the national or even church news? It looks like the Adventist church has its own Watergate going on now. We need a Woodward and Bernstein (and maybe even a deep throat)now to get to the bottom of it. (I've watched All the President's Men - a few too many times.) If this was an unjust charge - it seems like the church (GC - God's highest authority on earth) should have made a statement to the church(Saints) by now. It actually sounds like the church admits it happening and will simply talk to the pastor about it when he happens to come for the annual GC meeting. Has anyone with Adventist family or who still gets the magazines heard about the church acknowledging anything like this going on - or is Gilbert our resident sleuth? (Thanks Gilbert!) Anyone want to take this to some Adventist forums and see what they know? Again, this is absolutely outrageous. Does this sound like the behavior of God's remnant church of Bible prophecy? | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 428 Registered: 10-2006 |
I'm still wondering why the church - either at large or an individual church would want these things. Could it be because they believe they are spiritual Israel and need them for some part of fulfillment of Bible prophecy? The end thus again in their minds (as the remnant church of Bible prophecy) justifying the means? Might they need it for some replica of the temple? Are they just getting back at them (which God explicitly said not to do) because of the trademark violation? So much for being people of the book. I'm surprised, shocked and really sad that people who name the name of Christ are involved in something like this. I can't believe this! | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1469 Registered: 11-2005 |
Its all quite confusing. And where does the GC lawsuit against the Jewish group in San Diego fit in. There is some sort of overlap here but I can't quite put my finger on it. What in the world is "The Federation of Jewish Adventist Society"? From the Christian News Wire we have: From the Christian News Wire: If I go to http://tfjas.com/ the bottom of the page says, "All rights reserved - This is an independent organization and not affiliated with the Seventh-day Adventist ". If we click on "Press" we find the story of the Eugene, Oregon theft. as well as the response letter from the GC. The North County Times said ,"The church filed a lawsuit Nov. 24 against The Federation of Jewish Adventist Society to force the Valley Center group to stop using the word in its name." There definitely is a lawsuit on the docket. That is verifiable. I posted the details at CARM. It was filed by the GC: The Federal District Court Filing for this one is at http://dockets.justia.com/docket/cou...ase_id-284394/ Is TFJAS an umbrella group that both of these stories fall under?If we go to the North County Times, there is these interesting comment under Registered Comments. HebrewAdventist December 22, 2008 11:44PM PST It seems as though the two are definitely connected. Were the Sevenht-day Adventists trying to do undercover proselytizing through what the Jewish community considered to be legitimate Jewish organizations. There is a whol lot more detail that I posted on CARM. Searching on Google I found that the husband and wife undercover Jewish Seventh-day Adventists had become members of other Jewish organizations in the Portland and related areas. Obviously the Jewish infiltration is being sponsored from the highest levels of the GC as a sort of outreach kind of like the proselytizing done under the guise of Revelation Seminars, Bible Studies, Amazing Facts and on and on. Obviously somebody was deceived, and reading the Jewish Review it appears that it is the orthodox Jews that feel the Seventh-day Adventist Church is not above board. Why retaliate against a small group in San Diego for a Eugene, Oregon break in? Are there some pressure tactics going on here? | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1470 Registered: 11-2005 |
I stumbled across it today at http://www.atomorrow.com/discus/messages/1780/15918.html?1230751385 | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1471 Registered: 11-2005 |
www.tfjas.com specifically calls it "Orthodox Sephardic Jewish Synagogue Robbery 'Who-done-it' revealed in the 'Tell All' Confession". Orthodox Sephardic Jewish Synagogue doesn't seem to be what is described by the two undercover Seventh-day Adventist in the Gleaner article! Having been out of Adventism for 2-1/2 years now I can easily understand how Adventists intnetionaqlly mislead others by making their words sound evangelical. Evangelicals think they hear one thing when Adventists have taken commonly used words and given them new meanings. I wonder if that is what is going on here. It looks like some of these centers where initiated with the support of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to give the false impression that they actually were orthodox Jewish. Lies, lies, and more lies. I feel like I am reading Ellen White's stuff all over again. | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 429 Registered: 10-2006 |
Undercover Seventh-day Adventists??? Infiltrators??? I was accused of being a Jesuit spy by one of the elders. I heard about it from kids and one of my friends just a few weeks ago. It was something about the black pope or something. I had never heard anything like it! I couldn't believe that either. I've been in a Catholic church three times - two were funerals and one was to perform in a concert. I couldn't believe that one either! If they're engaging in that behavior themselves, it makes sense that they would suspect others of the same. The Bible has good advice for them - if they will only read it. Their sin is no greater than mine. I just pray they will come to Jesus and trust Him alone for forgiveness of their sin. It sounds like the church is going to have to deal with it now that it is becoming public. I'm still surprised that it is not yet national news! I'd love to hear some feedback on both situations (the trademark infringement and theft) from current Adventists. I was going to write, "I wonder what Jesus thinks." Sadly, I think I already know.  | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 607 Registered: 11-2007  |
I have had personal dealings with the wife of the "rabbi" of this group: http://www.jewishadventist.com/ I intitially found the story highly suspect (she emailed me a copy of it several months ago - the one about the synagogue theft.) I came into contact with them when she purchased a hebrew mosaic from me on ebay. Check out the videos, especially. He thinks he's Elijah. As much as I don't defend the SDA organization, I don't know that this is a valid accusation, considering the source. Check it out and see what you think. There are many internet "news" sites that will print any press release from anyone - so just because it looks like a news story, doesn't mean it's been verified either. If anyone else has some info that backs up the story, I'd be interested to see it - (from a different source) Sondra (Message edited by 8thday on January 02, 2009) | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 286 Registered: 1-2007 |
I am just sitting here shaking my head if this is true. The sda's sins against the 10c's is the 8th and 10th commandments. God told the Israelites to settle their differences out of public court which they tried to do but it says that the sda has refused to return to them what is rightfully theirs. To me this trademark is a rouse to something else. After reading this it brings to my mind that they (sda) talk out of two sides of their mouths. They claim the sunday law and keep it in the fore front while in the dark corner they are actually the ones trying to bring about something different. I could be way off base. I still get the Gleaner and I have not seen anything about this in it. They have tried to keep this secret but the cat is now out of the bag so to speak and I hope sda members see this and really do research on it and not just take the word of their pastors that have been spoon fed some excuse. I just do not understand why the police will not do anything about it as theft is theft and the ones who will take the fall for this is will be the people under the direction of their pastor, certainly not the GC. This is just horrible! Gail | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1472 Registered: 11-2005 |
The only thing that seems to be "for certain" is the court docket for the trademark lawsuit, but there's got to be more going on here that just that the GC is sueing them because they have Adventist in the name. There are oodles of organizations, etc that have Adventist as a part of their name. How can the GC claim they alone own it? It seems to me more like a "pressure tactic" to accomplish something else -- but what? There definitely is a relationship between the two pieces of news. Both are somehow associated with TFJAS, but how? (Message edited by jorgfe on January 02, 2009) |
