| Author | Message | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 596 Registered: 6-2005  |
My church (non-denominational) announced yesterday that anyone who was in need, either because they could not pay their bills, or because they could pay bills but with nothing left over, could turn in a request on Sunday for two separate monthly bills to be paid by our church family on a one time basis. So for example, people can turn in a request for their mortage to be paid for one month, as well as a car payment or whatever! Pastor says we will fulfill at least one of the two, and both if we collect enough. We typically have about 600 adults in attendance on a given Sunday I think. Now here is the good part--Instead of guilting us into GIVING to those in our body who have a need, He actually said that we would be disobedient and prideful if we did not speak up and ask for what we needed and RECEIVE! He said he believed that we would rob our brothers and sisters of the opportunity to bless us if we were too proud to ask for help! Amazing. The church will take up an Acts 2:42 offering on Sunday morning, and those requesting help will recieve a check between 3-5 pm that afternoon! I am loving this! I believe God will bless this grace being extended to our church family members who are hurting. No requirements, our church doesnt even have formal memebership.... The church also does not request tithe, and offering are UP from last year, despite the economy! I find myself becomming more generous just worshipping in that atmosphere which follows the God-given mandate to take care of the poor, widows and orphans. I also got to give toward christmas gifts for three families that my Sunday school group is helping, as well as a local home for troubled kids and other outreach sponsored by my church. God's economy is NOT our economy for sure. Lori | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 1748 Registered: 8-2004  |
Wow Lori! That makes so much sense as a Christian church . . . and so little sense in the 'regular world'. So cool! (Message edited by helovesme2 on December 15, 2008) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9140 Registered: 12-2003  |
Amazing, Lori! I love it, too! Let us know how next Sunday's offering goes... Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1554 Registered: 4-2000  |
Lori, Thank you for posting that amazing story about Christian stewardship in your church. Since Seventh-day Adventist churches are required to remit ALL their tithe funds to the local Conference treasury, the consequential effect is that many local church treasurers are scrambling to find enough money left over to pay the utility bills. Sadly, the boys upstairs grab all their money. Indeed, it is amazing that your church cares enough about their members in these hard economic times to help each other in a significant manner. What a true, benevolent spirit during this Christmas season! My wife and I are also members of a non-denominational church where no offering plate is ever passed. Our church does not teach tithing either. At a deck at the back of the worship center, there is a small slot labeled simply "OFFERINGS" to facilitate our giving to our one-million-dollar annual budget. Oh yes, in spite of having a new, modern campus, our church is debt-free. The Gospel breeds generosity wherever it takes root. With Spirit-led giving, the Christian no longer yearns for the laws of Moses to finance the Great Commission. What a stark difference the resurrection life makes in our concern for each other! Soli Deo Gloria! His grace still amazes me, Dennis Fischer | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 79 Registered: 8-2008 |
Shortly before leaving SDA-ism, I served briefly as church treasurer. It is amazing how much get sucked up by the bureaucracy and how little is left for the local church. In our cause, we provided enough tithe to pay 4-5 pastors' salaries, yet we weren't even allowed a full-time pastor. The denomation owns all the facilities, yet expects the local church to pay for their upkeep, maintenance (sp?), and utilities, I wrote very purt and direct letter to the conference auditor telling her, "You have all the assets and we have all the liabilities." This is not accidental, but part of the controlling nature of the SDA belief system: The denomination knows that if it keeps local churches on shoe-string budgets, it can keep them under control. This of course also happens in other denominations, which is why I believe the denomational concept itself is fundamentally anti-gospel (no sense in the book of Acts in which local churches were under some sort of authoritative denominational system run out of Jerusalem or any where else). | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6153 Registered: 3-2004  |
I think each of us are glad to be out from under that controlling influence. We did not dare to think for ourselves and question adventism while we were under its influence. It is so much better to know Jesus Christ and have a personal relationship with Him. We are free to worship Him as He wants us to do. God, you are awesome. Diana L | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 415 Registered: 1-2004  |
I like the idea of having a congregational offering to help those in need. It's certainly not new, but never gets outdated either. In response to Bskillet, I think there were in fact some denominations back in the New Testament times. Hymenaeus and Philetus were starting a denomination that believed the resurrection had already happened. There were more than likely some Jewish Christians who tried to start a new denomination by taking a vote on whether the letter from Jerusalem about circumcision should be followed or not. And there were probably some in Galatia who disagreed with Paul's gospel and made light of his claims of any kind of apostolic authority. Most of these denominations did not pass the test of time. They all went against Christ's call for unity. One great weakness of denominations that preach a God who does not exist other than in concepts and ideas is that they are unable to experience the God they preach. Therefore, their doctrines change over time because their false god cannot be known by experience. There is no reality backing their teachings. Jeremiah | ||
| Benevento Registered user Username: Benevento Post Number: 255 Registered: 4-2005 |
In our church there is an offering taken the first Sunday of the month for those in need. I rather like that idea as they are able to build up a little reserve at times. Peggy | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 1749 Registered: 8-2004 |
Jeremiah wrote, "One great weakness of denominations that preach a God who does not exist other than in concepts and ideas is that they are unable to experience the God they preach. Therefore, their doctrines change over time because their false god cannot be known by experience. There is no reality backing their teachings." Very, very well said! | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 83 Registered: 8-2008 |
Haha! Good one! | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1555 Registered: 4-2000 |
USAToday reported this week that 52 percent of American "Christians" do not say that Christianity is the exclusive path to eternal life. Lori, I shared your amazing story with the pastoral staff at my church. My pastor referred to it as a "faith-stretching" ministry that was cool. Furthermore, it reminded him when Ray Stedman pastored the Pensicola Bible Church in Florida. One Sunday Pastor Stedman announced that all should give to the glory of God in their offering and if anyone is financially hurting to simply take a reasonable amount out of the offering plate as it passes by. Interestingly, many Seventh-day Adventists claim that they don't really care what is done with their money once it is given. They simply feel compelled to do their duty by giving it. They do not require any financial responsibility on the part of their scandal-ridden hierarchy. Such a blind giving stance is nothing less than legalism. Since many SDA members don't care what is done with their money, their multi-layered leadership feels no pressure to be transparent. Consequently, the SDA hierarchy enjoys the liberty of embellishing themselves in many ways. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1241 Registered: 5-2007  |
Dennis, Just a 'little' correction: Ray C. Stedman pastured the Peninsula Bible Church from 1950 to 1990 which is located in Palo Alto, CA, just a few miles south of San Francisco. He was a frequent guest speaker at our church in Napa, so I found your reference to Pensacola, FL a bit startling. (I was church trustee chairman at the time and am sure we didn't cover the expense of a six thousand mile round trip.) http://www.raystedman.org/bio.html Phil (Message edited by philharris on December 17, 2008) | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 324 Registered: 2-2008 |
At the SDA church I attended before I came to Indiana, the pastor there encouraged members to give to the church budget rather than to tithe. hmmm... wonder if the conference knew that. ~vivian | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1556 Registered: 4-2000 |
I stand corrected, Phil. Thanks! (Message edited by Dennis on December 17, 2008) | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 600 Registered: 6-2005 |
Dennis, I think the most amazing part is the lack of a "qualification" process. (I remember in the SDA system as part of a worthy student qualification parents must be tithe payers to reap the benefit of any worthy student scholorship.) Anyway, the idea that anyone can recieve the help, even if they have been drinking, depressed, unemployed and not looking, even under-employed, and perhaps never given a cent to the local church body, is outrageously grace-inspired. I had this discussion with my son last night, and I was just overcome with the DISPLAY of grace. I talked to my son at length about being able to bless those who didnt "deserve" it, as an act of grace and obedience to God. God has so blessed me, saved me, and I do not "deserve" it. Im going to write my pastor a note, to tell how this is impacting me. I have been so moved by the idea of no strings gifting. | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 735 Registered: 1-2003  |
Phil I had to smile when I read, "Ray C. Stedman pastured the Peninsula Bible Church". Sort of wondered if he was a vegetarian as he worked in the pasture of the church.  I'm sure I do things like this much more than you do. Richard | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1243 Registered: 5-2007 |
Richard, Since I had breakfast with him on more than one occasion, which normally included bacon and sausage, I am fairly certain Pastor Stedman was not vegetarian. Just for the record, "pastured" is the correct spelling. Phil (Message edited by philharris on December 19, 2008) | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 736 Registered: 1-2003 |
Thanks Phil, I learn new things all the time. I must be honest I didn't realize that was the correct spelling. Richard PS: I still have a "vision" of him herding in a pasture. <smile> | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1246 Registered: 5-2007 |
Richard, Your vision is a good one. We are "sheep" in the "Lord's pasture" and he is our "good shepherd" who laid down his life for his "lost sheep". Luke 15:1-10 KJV Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. And he spake this parable unto them, saying, What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it? And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost. Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth. Phil | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 965 Registered: 7-2004  |
Well, pastured is the correct spelling if it is the past tense of pasture - which could work as Phil meant tending sheep in the Lord's pasture. But pastored is the correct spelling if it is the past tense of pastor - which works for the expected meaning that he was a pastor. Sounds to me like both are correct, he both pastored and pastured. One can pastor without pasturing, or one can do both. | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 606 Registered: 6-2005 |
Great testimonies coming out of this whole giving esperience. Over 75,000 was donated on Sunday, and over 70 families were helped. Some asked for 100 for formula, some for mortgage payments and medical bills. (This congregational giving was on top of christmas giving that we did within our church sunday school classes, where for instance my samlly group adopted families in our church and donated several thousand dollars already) One boy aged 18, attending a couple of months, asked for 800 to pay a bill for his dad. (His brother had dumped an 800 bill on his father.) The father is not a member of the church, but he was blessed of God. Pastor was tearful as he told stories. Im sure more will come in, and I just love how God moves when we obey! | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 737 Registered: 1-2003 |
Lori, thanks so much for sharing what the Lord is doing! ! ! Richard |
