| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
American Heart Association: ONE TO SIX GLASSES OF WINE EACH WEEK MAY CUT YOUR STROKE RISK BY ONE THIRD Apostle Paul advised the young missionary evangelist Timothy, ìDrink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.î NIV 1 Timothy 5:23. Paul off the wall? Evidently not. For scientific evidence keeps piling up about the positive health benefits of ìa little wineî for protective health benefits. Now, according to the reliable American Heart Association (AHA), a 16-year study suggests that wine may have a protective effect against stroke. In the December 3, 1998 issue of the AHA scientific journal STROKE, Danish researchers report on a 16-year study of 13,329 people. Those who drank one to six glasses of wine per week enjoyed a 34 percent lower risk of stroke THAN THOSE WHO NEVER OR HARDLY EVER DRANK WINE. Those consumed wine daily had a 32 percent risk reduction. One reason for wineís protective effects, say the researchers, may be wineís FLAVONOIDS and TANNINS. These are natural chemicals in certain fruits and vegetables that help slow the development of atherosclerotic plaque, the scabby gunk that builds up on the insides of blood vessel walls and cause heart attacks and strokes. "There may be a beneficial effect," says lead researcher Thomas Truelsen, M.D., of the Institute of Preventive Medicine, Copenhagen. The study was part of the Copenhagen City Heart Study conducted from January 1977 through December 1992 and involved 6,067 men and 7,262 women between the ages of 45 and 84. Over the 16-year span, 833 people had strokes. Study participants were asked whether they drank beer, wine or spirits and how frequently they drank: Frequency group one: "never/hardly ever." Frequency group two: "monthly." Frequency group three: "weekly." Frequency group four: "daily." People who drank wine enjoyed a significantly decreased risk of stroke in all frequency groups COMPARED WITH THOSE WHO NEVER OR HARDLY EVER DRANK WINE. Even taking into account other risk factors -- such as PHYSICAL INACTIVITY, DIABETES, HIGH BLOOD CHOLESTEROL AND OBESITY -- the researchers still found a positive benefit for those who drank wine. Study co-authors: Morten Gronbaek, M.D., Ph.D. Peter Schnohr, M.D. Gudrun Boysen, D.M.Sc. AHA COMMENTS: 1. ìThe American Heart Association does not recommend that individuals start drinking to reduce their risk of heart disease and stroke. Studies have shown higher risks of cardiovascular disease associated with excessive alcohol consumption.î 2. ìThe AHA recommends consultation with your doctor or health care professional.î Was Paul right or wrong about Timothy? You decide. For more information go to: http://www.americanheartassociation.com/ Still, "It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall." Paul again, Romans 14:21 God bless you all, Max of the Cross | ||
| Lydell |
Max, I'm glad you added that final bit. For me that is the crux of the issue. We have several recovering alcoholics in our church. I don't think it would profit them much for those around them to be upholding the idea of even an occassional drink. With alcoholics here and there on both sides of our family tree, I've always warned my sons not to assume they would be the one not to be affected by any genetic tie to the problem. Better to stay away and know for sure you can't be caught up in a problem. | ||
| Max |
But we need to avoid extremism, don't you think, Lydell? I can't quite bring myself to agree with "Better to stay away and know for sure you can't be caught up in a problem." Scripture doesn't say that. Jesus drank wine. Paul counselled Timothy to drink it for health reasons. God commanded the Jewish people to drink wine at their most sacred feast -- the seder, the centerpiece of the Passover festival. And it was at this seder that Jesus commanded his disciples to drink wine in commemoration of his blood to be spilled. Which raises an interesting question: If SDAs say baptism by immersion is necessary as opposed to sprinkling because that's the way the disciples did it, then why don't they say that real wine is necessary at communion because that's that way the disciples drank it? Doesn't make any sense to me. Does it to you? | ||
| Lorinc |
Hi Max (and/or anyone else disposed to answer), Can you give me a brief tutorial on Wine in the New Testament? :-) There was some Baptist influence in my upbringing, and of course the Baptists agree with the Adventists and other conservative groups in saying that the "wine" in the New Testament is the unfermented "fruit of the vine." The Greek, 'oinos' or something like that, can be either fermented or unfermented, or so I've always been taught. This is another area where the SDA position has always seemed to make sense, for example: Why would Jesus miraculously create gallons and gallons of intoxicating wine after guests had already been drinking for days, when the Bible condemns drunkenness as a sin? Also, when fermentation is sometimes used as a symbol for sin, how can fermented wine be symbolic of "[Christ's] blood of the New Covenant" ? You know the arguments better than I do; :-) How do you address them from your current perspective? Not looking for contention, just enlightenment! - Lorin | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Speaking as a recovering alcoholic, I will say that for me, taking a drink would be deadly. On the other hand, I have family members that do have their wine and are in great health. I'm the one with the strokes, they are stroke free thus far. Look at George Burnes! I would say that for those not recovering from alcohol abuse, it is not a bad thing IF they can handle a drink and stop there. I attended a Church in Salt lake City that served wine at all of the feasts, including communion. Real wine, not grape juice. Infact, when I started attending Church again in my adult years and was at a communion service and grape juice was served, I thought that strange. I have a neighbor who is a recovering alcoholic and he visits. Him and I were talking about this last week. He told me that for several years this wine at communion didn't seem to get him to drinking. But one time, after communion, he had this compelling urge to go to the nearest bar and belt down a few. With that thought, he panicked, knowing that it was his alcholism acting up and trying to lie to him that he could have just a few drinks. Thankfully he didn't enter that bar but the idea that even the little bit of wine served at communion had us both a bit nervous about real wine being served at communion. For myself, I wouldn't dare take even that little bit, for I know that I would be on a rip roaring drunk directly after service. But that's me. I'm a die hard alcoholic that wouldn't think of taking any chances so I refrain from any alcohol, even if it were communion. God Bless, Denise | ||
| Valm |
I have a story about grape juice for communion. Once when my parents were visiting I went to church with them and there was communion. Joseph was about four at the time an accustomed to communion in the church we attend. When the grape juice was passed he took a drink and looked at me with great puzzlement and exclaimed in a loud voice, "This isn't wine, its apple juice." Did the heads ever turn. This is one of the points my husband has always found very strange about "fundie" churches as he calls them. And I am inclined to agree. You omitted mentioning that JESUS TURNED WATER INTO WINE at a wedding feast. I can not imagine that he would do this act and then expect us not to drink wine. I can not imagine he would confuse the issue by turning water into nonalcoholic wine as this would given the appearance of condoning it. There is also the parable of new wine into old wineskins, which I can't find off hand. This is clearly real wine. I can not imagine that Christ would use this in his parable if it is something we should be avoiding in our everyday lives. | ||
| Max |
Hello Lorin, As far as I'm aware oinos in the New Testament always refers to fermented wine and never to unfermented wine unless the reference is to "new wine." But I'll have to check that when I have more time. They had no way of preserving grape juice other than allowing it to ferment. (I've seen no credible archaeological support for the contention that they powdered the juice and reconstituted it later with water.) But this is just my memory. I'll have to check. | ||
| Max |
Lorin, I just checked Matthew 9:17 in the NIV: "Neither do men pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the sknis will burst, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved." The NIV text note to this verse: "new wineskins. In ancient times goatskins were used to hold wine. As the fresh grape juice fermented, the wine would expand, and the neew wineskin would stretch. But a used skin, already stretched, would break. Jesus brings a newness that cannot be confined within the old forms." Here is an example of using the term "new wine" that unambiguously means "unfermented grape juice." And here is the same example of using the term "wine" to mean fermented grape juice. My tendency is to think that SDAs and others who try to say -- as Ellen white did consistently -- that the New Testament use of the word "wine" (oinos) could mean either fermented or unfermented grape juice has NO SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT. But this is not a definitive study. Do you think you could consult some reference sources and report back to us? | ||
| Max |
And the above also serves as an example of fermentation referring not to sin, but to the saving grace of Jesus Christ! | ||
| Valm |
What do you think the text from Luke 5:39 means (other than they are obviously talking about wine) "No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better." Valerie | ||
| Darrell |
Max quoted: "One reason for wine?s protective effects, say the researchers, may be wine?s FLAVONOIDS and TANNINS. These are natural chemicals in certain fruits and vegetables that help slow the development of atherosclerotic plaque, the scabby gunk that builds up on the insides of blood vessel walls and cause heart attacks and strokes." This conclusion seems to support the idea that the real benefit is obtained from the fruit, not the alcohol. Is this true? If so, then the best action to take would be to drink more fruit juice, and avoid the undesireable side effects of excessive alcohol. This could benefit even the recovering alcoholics. | ||
| Lorinc |
Max wrote: >But this is not a definitive study. Do you >think you could consult some reference sources >and report back to us? An excellent suggestion; I'd be happy to. Let me check some references when I get home to my library and I'll post a summary. :-) - Lorin | ||
| Max |
Darrell, Excellent observation. It's too early to tell. Other studies seem to indicate that the beneficial effect comes more from the alcohol itself than other components in beers, wines, and spirits. I plan to report on this when I get time. Thanks for applying your scientific mind to this issue. | ||
| Max |
Darrell, Here's what medical researchers have to say in answer to your query about whether it is the fruit juice or the alcohol that protects against diseases of the heart and blood vessels. SOME STUDIES ATTRIBUTE THE PROTECTION TO A SPECIFIC EFFECT OF WINE;6,7 OTHER STUDIES ATTRIBUTE IT TO ANY TYPE OF ALCOHOL. This statement was made by the following medical researchers: Leon A Simons, MD, FRACP, Associate Professor of Medicine; University of New South Wales Lipid Research Department, St Vincent's Hospital, Sydney, New South Wales. Judith Simons, MACS, Analyst-Programmer. University of New South Wales Lipid Research Department, St Vincent's Hospital, Sydney, New South Wales. John McCallum, DPhil, Professor and Dean. Faculty of Health, University of Western Sydney MacArthur, Sydney, New South Wales. Yechiel Friedlander, PhD, Associate Professor in Epidemiology. Department of Social Medicine, Hebrew University - Hadassah Hospital, Jerusalem, Israel. Michael Ortiz, PhD, Health Outcomes Manager. Pfizer Pty Ltd, Sydney, New South Wales. | ||
| Valm |
It is my understanding that tannins are produced in the process of fermentation. I am aware that grape seed extract has flavanoids, but I believe the falvanoids are more concentrated in wine as opposed to grape juice. I have no reference to this to offer. The bottom line is that wine is Biblical. Jesus drank it, he turned water into wine at the wedding feast, he passed a cup to his disciples using it as a symbol of his atoning blood. He referred to it in parables. I am sorry for those who can not have wine due to alcoholism. I do not know how this fits into the big picture of Christianity other than in the compassion for and the support we give to our fellows who suffer from this disease. | ||
| Max |
Yes, Val, The bottom line is biblical and must always be. I have staked my entire life on Jesus Christ. He is God. As God he is also the Word of God who was in the beginning with God. Scripture is the word of God only in the sense that it is the only divinely inspired record we have of him: 1. The prophecies of him before the first Christmas of Genesis through Malachi and, 2. The infinitely superior eyewitness / earwitness / handwitness ("we touched him with our hands") of Matthew through Revelation. Sorry, but the word of God ends with Revelation 22:18-21 where God through this "we touched him with our hands" witness issues an anathema, a holy curse: "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. "He who testifies to these things [Christ] says, 'Yes, I am coming soon [written down no later than about AD 95].'" "Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. "The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen." That's it. That's all they wrote. Sorry, Ellen, wherever you are. Sorry, General Conference, wherever you are. Sorry for you and your feckless plight, but still rejoicing always in the Lord and in him alone, And therefore praising God for you, Val, you redeemed one, you, Max of the Cross | ||
| Valm |
The kids are tucked in and on that very nice posting I will tuck myself in. Goodnight all and peaceful dreams. Valerie | ||
| Max |
Ps, now that Val has tucked herself in: Those who have been saying for 156 years, "Science has been confirming Ellen G. White," had better say again if they are to know what's good for them, "It is Scripture that science has been confirming all along." It is only "science falsely so called" that has been confirming her. NIV Isaiah 8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. 9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." May it ever be so, Max of the Cross |
