| Author |
Message |
Max
| | Posted on Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 7:50 pm: |     |
RAHAB IS PROOF
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the
prostitute considered righteous for what she
did when she gave lodging to the spies and
sent them off in a different direction? |
Max
| | Posted on Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 7:53 pm: | |
AS SPIRIT ENLIVENS BODY, SO GOOD
WORKS ENLIVEN FAITH
NIV James 2:
26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so
faith without deeds is dead. |
Max
| | Posted on Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 8:00 pm: | |
WHAT ABOUT LUTHER AND JAMES?
To answer this question I will quote from the
NIV text note to James 2:14-26, the passage I
have just quoted in my several posts just
above:
[In James 2:14-20, 24, adn 26] "Faith" is not
used in the sense of genuine, saving faith.
Rather, it is demonic (2:19), useless (2:20)
and dead (2:16). It is a mere intellectual
acceptance of certain truths without trust in
Christ as Savior. James is also NOT saying
that a person is saved by works and not
genuine faith. Rather, he is saying, to use
Martin Luther's words, that a man is justified
(declared righteous before God) by faith alone,
but not by a faith that is alone. Genuine faith
will produce good deeds, but only faith in
Christ saves. |
Max
| | Posted on Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 8:29 pm: | |
LUTHER: "ANYONE WHO DOES NOT DO
GOOD WORKS ... IS AN UNBELIEVER"
Faith is not what some people think it is. Their
human dream is a delusion. Because they
observe that faith is not followed by good
works or a better life, they fall into error, even
though they speak and hear much about faith.
ìFaith is not enough,î they say, ìYou must do
good works, you must be pious to be saved.î
They think that, when you hear the gospel, you
start working, creating by your own strength a
thankful heart which says, îI believe.î That is
what they think true faith is.
But, because this is a human idea, a dream,
the heart never learns anything from it, so it
does nothing and REFORM doesn't come
from this ìfaith,î either.
Instead, faith is God's work in us, that
changes us and gives new birth from God.
(John 1:13). It KILLS the Old Adam and
MAKES us completely different people. It
CHANGES our hearts, our spirits, our
thoughts and all our powers. It BRINGS the
Holy Spirit with it. Yes, it is a living, creative,
active and powerful thing, this faith. FAITH
CANNOT HELP DOING GOOD WORKS
CONSTANTLY. It doesn't stop to ask if good
works ought to be done, but before anyone
asks, it already HAS DONE them and
CONTINUES TO DO them without ceasing.
ANYONE WHO DOES NOT DO GOOD
WORKS IN THIS MANNER IS AN
UNBELIEVER. He stumbles around and looks
for faith and good works, even though he does
not know what faith or good works are.
Yet he GOSSIPS and CHATTERS ABOUT
FAITH and good works with many words.
Faith is a living, bold trust in God's grace, so
certain of God's favor that it would risk death a
thousand times trusting in it. Such confidence
and knowledge of God's grace makes you
happy, joyful and bold in your relationship to
God and all creatures. The Holy Spirit makes
this happen through faith. Because of it, you
freely, willingly and joyfully DO GOOD to
everyone, SERVE everyone, suffer all kinds of
things, love and praise the God who has
shown you such grace. Thus, IT IS JUST AS
IMPOSSIBLE TO SEPARATE FAITH AND
WORKS AS IT IS TO SEPARATE HEAT AND
LIGHT FROM FIRE! Therefore, watch out for
your own false ideas and guard against
good-for-nothing gossips, who think they're
smart enough to define faith and works, but
really are the greatest of fools.
Ask God to work faith in you, or you will remain
forever without faith, no matter what you wish,
say or can do.î --Martin Luther
____________________________________
ìMartin Luther's Definition of Faith: An excerpt
from ëAn Introduction to St. Paul's Letter to the
Romans,íî Luther's German Bible of 1522 by
Martin Luther, 1483-1546, translated by Rev.
Robert E. Smith from DR. MARTIN LUTHER'S
VERMISCHTE DEUTSCHE SCHRIFTEN.
Johann K. Irmischer, ed. Vol. 63 (Erlangen:
Heyder and Zimmer, 1854), pp.124-125. [EA
63:124-125], August 1994
____________________________________
__________
This text was translated for Project Wittenberg
by Rev. Robert E. Smith and is in the public
domain. You may freely distribute, copy or print
this text. Please direct any comments or
suggestions to: Rev. Robert E. Smith, Walther
Library, Concordia Theological Seminary.
E-mail: CFWLibrary@CRF.CUIS.EDU. Surface
Mail: 6600 N. Clinton St., Ft. Wayne, IN 46825
USA. Phone: (219) 481-2123. Fax: (219)
481-2126.
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/witten
berg/luther/luther-faith.txt
Amen, Brother Martin,
Max of the Cross |
Max
| | Posted on Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 8:51 pm: | |
Paul: ìAll ... are justified freely by [Godís] grace
through the redemption that came by Christ
Jesus.î Romans 23:24 NIV.
NIV Text Note to Romans 3:24:
ìjustifiedî Paul uses the word ìjustifiedî 22
times. ^^It is translated ëjustifyí in all cases
except two .... The term describes what
happens when someone believes in Christ as
his Savior: From the negative viewpoint, God
declares the person to be not guilty; from the
positive viewpoint, he declares him to be
righteous. He cancels the guilt of the personís
sin and credits righteousness to him. Paul
emphasizes two points in this regard:
1. No one lives a perfectly good, holy,
righteous life. On the contrary, ëthere is no one
righteousí ... and ëall have sinned and fall
short of the glory of Godí .... Therefore no one
will be declared righteous in his [Godís] sight
by observing the lawî ....
2. But even though all are sinners and not
sons, God will declare everyone who puts his
trust in Jesus not guilty but righteous. this
legal declaration is valid because Christ died
to pay the penalty for our sin and lived a life of
perfect righteousness that can in turn be
imputed to us. This is the central theme of
Romans and is stated in the theme verse,
...(ìa righteousness from Godî). Christís
righteousness (his obedience to Godís law
and his sacrificial death) will be credited to
believers as their own. Paul uses the word
ìcreditedî nine times in ch. 4 alone.
ìfreely by his grace.î The central thought in
justification is that, although man clearly and
totally deserves to be declared guilty ...,
because of his trust in Christ God declares
him righteous. This is stated in several ways
here:
(1) ìfreelyî (as a gift, for nothing),
(2) ìby his grace,î
(3) ìthrough the redemption that came by
Christ Jesusî and
(4) ìthrough faithî ....
ìredemptionî A word taken from the slave
market -- the basic idea is that of obtaining
release by payment of a ransom. Paul uses
this word to refer to release from guilt, with its
liability for judgment, and to deliverance form
slavery to sin, because christ in his death paid
the ransom for us.^^
Blessings to all,
Max of the Cross |
Max
| | Posted on Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 8:59 pm: | |
Paul: "We have an OBLIGATION -- but it is
NOT to the sinful nature, to live according to it.
For if you live according to the sinful nature,
you will die; but if by the Spirit you PUT TO
DEATH the misdeeds of the body, you will live,
because those who are led by the spirit of God
are sons of God." |
Max
| | Posted on Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 9:45 pm: | |
Luther: Good works follow ìfaith of heart, the
head and the substance of all our
righteousnessî
^^Works, since they are irrational things,
cannot glorify God, although they may be done
to the glory of God, if faith be present. But at
present we are inquiring, not into the quality of
the works done, but into him who does them,
who glorifies God, and brings forth good
works. This is faith of heart, the head and the
substance of all our righteousness. Hence
that is a blind and perilous doctrine which
teaches that the commandments are fulfilled
by works. The commandments must have
been fulfilled previous to any good works, and
good works follow their fulfillment, as we shall
see.^^
--Martin Luther
Concerning Christian Liberty (Part 2) by Martin
Luther (1520), Translation by R. S. Grignon.
The Five-Foot Shelf of Books, "The Harvard
Classics", Volume 36 (New York: P. F. Collier
& Son, 1910), Pages 353-397.
-----------------------------------------------------------
This text was converted to HTML for Project
Wittenberg by Elizabeth T. Knuth and is in the
public domain. You may freely distribute, copy
or print this text. Please direct any comments
or suggestions to:
Rev. Robert E. Smith
Walther Library
Concordia Theological Seminary.
E-mail: cosmithb@ash.palni.edu
Surface Mail: 6600 N. Clinton St., Ft. Wayne, IN
46825 USA
Phone: (219) 452-2123 - Fax: (219) 452-2126 |
Max
| | Posted on Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 10:01 pm: | |
Luther: Good man, good works; bad man, bad
works
"True, then, are these two sayings: "Good
works do not make a good man, but a good
man does good works"; "Bad works do not
make a bad man, but a bad man does bad
works." Thus it is always necessary that the
substance or person should be good before
any good works can be done, and that good
works should follow and proceed from a good
person. As Christ says, "A good tree cannot
bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree
bring forth good fruit" (Matt. vii. 18). Now it is
clear that the fruit does not bear the tree, nor
does the tree grow on the fruit; but, on the
contrary, the trees bear the fruit, and the fruit
grows on the trees."
--Martin Luther
Concerning Christian Liberty (Part 3) by Martin
Luther (1520), Translation by R. S. Grignon.
The Five-Foot Shelf of Books, "The Harvard
Classics", Volume 36 (New York: P. F. Collier
& Son, 1910), Pages 353-397.
-----------------------------------------------------------
This text was converted to HTML for Project
Wittenberg by Elizabeth T. Knuth and is in the
public domain. You may freely distribute, copy
or print this text. Please direct any comments
or suggestions to:
Rev. Robert E. Smith
Walther Library
Concordia Theological Seminary.
E-mail: cosmithb@ash.palni.edu
Surface Mail: 6600 N. Clinton St., Ft. Wayne, IN
46825 USA
Phone: (219) 452-2123 - Fax: (219) 452-2126
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/witten
berg/luther/web/cclib-3.html |
Max
| | Posted on Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 10:15 pm: | |
Luther: The person "himself makes his works
either bad or good"
As then trees must exist before their fruit, and
as the fruit does not make the tree either good
or bad, but on the contrary, a tree of either kind
produces fruit of the same kind, so must first
the person of the man be good or bad before
he can do either a good or a bad work; and his
works do not make him bad or good, but he
himself makes his works either bad or good.
--Martin Luther
Concerning Christian Liberty (Part 3) by Martin
Luther (1520), Translation by R. S. Grignon.
The Five-Foot Shelf of Books, "The Harvard
Classics", Volume 36 (New York: P. F. Collier
& Son, 1910), Pages 353-397.
-----------------------------------------------------------
This text was converted to HTML for Project
Wittenberg by Elizabeth T. Knuth and is in the
public domain. You may freely distribute, copy
or print this text. Please direct any comments
or suggestions to:
Rev. Robert E. Smith
Walther Library
Concordia Theological Seminary.
E-mail: cosmithb@ash.palni.edu
Surface Mail: 6600 N. Clinton St., Ft. Wayne, IN
46825 USA
Phone: (219) 452-2123 - Fax: (219) 452-2126
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/witten
berg/luther/web/cclib-3.html |
Max
| | Posted on Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 10:21 pm: | |
Luther: Builder makes house, house doesn't
make builder
"A bad or good house does not make a bad or
good builder, but a good or bad builder makes
a good or bad house. And in general no work
makes the workman such as it is itself; but the
workman makes the work such as he is
himself. Such is the case, too, with the works
of men. Such as the man himself is, whether
in faith or in unbelief, such is his work: good if
it be done in faith; bad if in unbelief. But the
converse is not true that, such as the work is,
such the man becomes in faith or in unbelief.
For as works do not make a believing man, so
neither do they make a justified man; but faith,
as it makes a man a believer and justified, so
also it makes his works good."
--Martin Luther
Concerning Christian Liberty (Part 3) by Martin
Luther (1520), Translation by R. S. Grignon.
The Five-Foot Shelf of Books, "The Harvard
Classics", Volume 36 (New York: P. F. Collier
& Son, 1910), Pages 353-397.
-----------------------------------------------------------
This text was converted to HTML for Project
Wittenberg by Elizabeth T. Knuth and is in the
public domain. You may freely distribute, copy
or print this text. Please direct any comments
or suggestions to:
Rev. Robert E. Smith
Walther Library
Concordia Theological Seminary.
E-mail: cosmithb@ash.palni.edu
Surface Mail: 6600 N. Clinton St., Ft. Wayne, IN
46825 USA
Phone: (219) 452-2123 - Fax: (219) 452-2126
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/witten
berg/luther/web/cclib-3.html |
Max
| | Posted on Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 10:28 pm: | |
Luther:
"We do not then reject good works; nay, we
embrace them and teach them in the highest
degree. It is not on their own account that we
condemn them, but on account of this impious
addition to them and the perverse notion of
seeking justification by them. These things
cause them to be only good in outward show,
but in reality not good, since by them men are
deceived and deceive others, like ravening
wolves in sheep's clothing."
Excerpt from letter from Martin Luther to Pope
Leo X "Concerning Christian Liberty" (Part 3)
by Martin Luther (1520). Translation by R. S.
Grignon. The Five-Foot Shelf of Books, "The
Harvard Classics", Volume 36 (New York: P. F.
Collier & Son, 1910), Pages 353-397.
-----------------------------------------------------------
This text was converted to HTML for Project
Wittenberg by Elizabeth T. Knuth and is in the
public domain. You may freely distribute, copy
or print this text. Please direct any comments
or suggestions to:
Rev. Robert E. Smith
Walther Library
Concordia Theological Seminary.
E-mail: cosmithb@ash.palni.edu
Surface Mail: 6600 N. Clinton St., Ft. Wayne, IN
46825 USA
Phone: (219) 452-2123 - Fax: (219) 452-2126
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/witten
berg/luther/web/cclib-3.html |
Max
| | Posted on Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 10:33 pm: | |
Luther: Faith WORKS by love.
"Here is the truly Christian life, here is faith
really working by love, when a man applies
himself with joy and love to the works of that
freest servitude in which he serves others
voluntarily and for nought, himself abundantly
satisfied in the fulness and riches of his own
faith."
Excerpt from letter from Martin Luther to Pope
Leo X "Concerning Christian Liberty" (Part 3)
by Martin Luther (1520). Translation by R. S.
Grignon. The Five-Foot Shelf of Books, "The
Harvard Classics", Volume 36 (New York: P. F.
Collier & Son, 1910), Pages 353-397.
-----------------------------------------------------------
This text was converted to HTML for Project
Wittenberg by Elizabeth T. Knuth and is in the
public domain. You may freely distribute, copy
or print this text. Please direct any comments
or suggestions to:
Rev. Robert E. Smith
Walther Library
Concordia Theological Seminary.
E-mail: cosmithb@ash.palni.edu
Surface Mail: 6600 N. Clinton St., Ft. Wayne, IN
46825 USA
Phone: (219) 452-2123 - Fax: (219) 452-2126
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/witten
berg/luther/web/cclib-3.html |
Max
| | Posted on Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 10:43 pm: | |
Luther: Good works should benefit others
"In this we see clearly that the Apostle [Paul in
Philipians 2:1-4] lays down this rule for a
Christian life: that all our works should be
directed to the advantage of others, since
every Christian has such abundance through
his faith that all his other works and his whole
life remain over and above wherewith to serve
and benefit his neighbour of spontaneous
goodwill."
Martin Luther, "Concerning Christian Liberty"
(Part 3) by Martin Luther (1520). Translation by
R. S. Grignon. The Five-Foot Shelf of Books,
"The Harvard Classics", Volume 36 (New
York: P. F. Collier & Son, 1910), Pages
353-397.
-----------------------------------------------------------
This text was converted to HTML for Project
Wittenberg by Elizabeth T. Knuth and is in the
public domain. You may freely distribute, copy
or print this text. Please direct any comments
or suggestions to:
Rev. Robert E. Smith
Walther Library
Concordia Theological Seminary.
E-mail: cosmithb@ash.palni.edu
Surface Mail: 6600 N. Clinton St., Ft. Wayne, IN
46825 USA
Phone: (219) 452-2123 - Fax: (219) 452-2126
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/witten
berg/luther/web/cclib-3.html |
Max
| | Posted on Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 10:48 pm: | |
Luther: "St. Paul circumcised his disciple
Timothy, not because he needed circumcision
for his justification, but that he might not offend
or contemn those Jews, weak in the faith, who
had not yet been able to comprehend the
liberty of faith. On the other hand, when they
contemned liberty and urged that circumcision
was necessary for justification, he resisted
them, and would not allow Titus to be
circumcised."
Martin Luther, "Concerning Christian Liberty"
(Part 3) by Martin Luther (1520). Translation by
R. S. Grignon. The Five-Foot Shelf of Books,
"The Harvard Classics", Volume 36 (New
York: P. F. Collier & Son, 1910), Pages
353-397.
-----------------------------------------------------------
This text was converted to HTML for Project
Wittenberg by Elizabeth T. Knuth and is in the
public domain. You may freely distribute, copy
or print this text. Please direct any comments
or suggestions to:
Rev. Robert E. Smith
Walther Library
Concordia Theological Seminary.
E-mail: cosmithb@ash.palni.edu
Surface Mail: 6600 N. Clinton St., Ft. Wayne, IN
46825 USA
Phone: (219) 452-2123 - Fax: (219) 452-2126
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/witten
berg/luther/web/cclib-3.html |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 12:51 am: | |
Max,
I am really enjoying these posts of Luther's writings that is Biblical Truth. This last one especially hit home tonight. The one about Timothy being circumcized as to not offend but when the weak in faith tried to impose their beliefs as to what justifies a person, he rejected.
This is exactly the position I seem to be in these days.
As the Lord has told us to love and others have told us to be patient with those of weak faith, this is my course.
I have been asked, why is it that you (me) continue to study with them? My only reply is because they need to hear the 'real' Gospel. That doesn't happen with one or two or three studies. It takes many as I am discovering.
These words of God, Paul and others including Luther are encouragement.
I am learning a great deal from these postings, please keep em coming.
God Bless this ministry,
In Jesus Christ's name, Amen.
Denise |
Cindy
| | Posted on Monday, November 06, 2000 - 7:34 pm: | |
Max,
Whatever happened to your insistence of ìScripture aloneî? :-)) I admire Martin Luther greatly: but is he now ëScriptureí also?
Actually, I think itís fine to quote him!; but, please...., donít get hard on OTHERS quoting various people and expressing their feelings on how THEY interpret Scripture! (referring to your posts on this thread on Sat.morning and afternoon Nov. 4). And agreeing with someone shouldnít be put down as not studying for themselves...I think we all know we need to study for ourselves!!
And now, Max....Why does it seem that you "kick against the goad" so much? Perhaps this is only my point of view, but these multitude!! of postings from you appear as if you are on a ëcrusadeí to uplift works!
Can we uplift CHRIST on the CROSS!?...that look sufficient for salvation!... as was the look of the Israelites in the desert when Moses erected the bronze serpent on the pole (see Numbers 21). As Moses lifted up the bronze serpent, so Godís SON would be lifted up on the Cross of Calvary!
A single look with eternal life the result!!
Perhaps I am not perceiving this correctly; but it seems, at times, that you can't just rejoice in the SIMPLICITY of "ONLY" BELIEVING in CHRIST"S WORK FOR US as our COMPLETE AND ABSOLUTELY FREE ticket for salvation! Does it ALWAYS have to be qualified with assurances of that if it is real, faith will work!?
On the other hand, Max, I do see "discipleship" as a work! It is a call to spiritual warfare!... to a life of holiness and continued faith...
But our SALVATION is SECURE whether we continue in the race or not!!
HE is faithful, even when we are not! I am saved by that acceptance of HIS righteousness in place of mine!
Of course, letís encourage each other in perseverance and good works; but please...
Let's always exalt the Graciousness and Mercy!! of the Father who gives this GIFT!! without 'conditionsí attached...conditions of living a certain way, or it will be taken back!!
HIS FAITHFULNESS covers me when I doubt, HIS STRENGTH is ALWAYS there to rely on, and HIS WISDOM is far beyond my finite comprehension! I am awed by HIS ACCEPTANCE of all my failings....
There have been literally YEARS between my initial belief in Jesus and my relationship with Him now. But I have been His the whole time; and He has been mine. My eternal life was guaranteed by that one-time belief! I am so grateful He patiently hounded me for a closer relationship with Him.
He does want to come and make His home with us, and to be ìour Life...î
Still...Grace and Works are mutually exclusive terms! Especially mutually exclusive as ëconditionsí on receiving eternal life! I love these words,
ìBorn of the Spirit with life from above,
Into Godís family divine;
Justified fully through Calvaryís love,
O what a standing is mine!
And the transaction so quickly was made,
When as a sinner I came,
Took of the offer of Grace He did proffer,
He saved me, O praise His dear name!
Heaven came down and glory fill my soul,
When at the Cross the Saviour made me whole;
My sins were washed away,
And my night was turned to dayó
Heaven came down and glory filled my soulî
(John Peterson)
Grace always, Max... :-))
Cindy
p.s. we do not know that Simon was defintiely going to hell (in Acts 8)...Peter told him to repent and pray to the Lord; and he answered, "Pray to the Lord for me..." Of course he did a stupid sin in trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit, but was this unpardonable? |
Patti
| | Posted on Monday, November 06, 2000 - 8:24 pm: | |
Beautiful, Cindy!
Thank you. You don't know it, but you wrote that just for me tonight.
Grace and peace,
Patti |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Monday, November 06, 2000 - 8:32 pm: | |
Here's some Scripture.
2 Peter 1:3-11
His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.
For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is near-sighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his pasts sins.
Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. |
Max
| | Posted on Monday, November 06, 2000 - 8:33 pm: | |
Hi Cindy,
You're right about Simon. Peter literally sent
him to hell, but Simon responded positively,
as though prompted by the Holy Spirit. And so
he probably was among the elect. Sorry for my
error.
Nothing has happened to my insistance on
Scripture alone. I've never quoted Luther as
Scripture or on a level with it.
I perceived Luther's gospel of real grace as
under attack. I knew that men considered
moral in Luther's day were using grace as an
excuse to visit brothels, etc. I knew that the
German prinices were concerned about the
breakdown of public morals due to a
misunderstanding of grace. And I knew that
Luther reassured these princes that that was
not the case. I also knew that Luther came out
powerfully in favor of "a faith that works,"
something some have recently denied.
And so I posted some of his quotes, and I
urge you and everyone else who visits this
web site to read them. They settle the matter
definitively.
But that still doesn't make Luther's writings
Scripture or him a 16th century EGW.
I have never been hard on anybody for
expressing their feelings here. To the contrary,
read my recent posts to Denise. I have only
stated objectively and without mentioning any
names that true faith is not based on feelings,
but on Scripture. And I stand by that. Only if the
shoe fits should anybody wear it.
Nor am I on any crusade to uplift works. I've
been posting for about a year now, and I
would estimate that my posts uplifting grace
exceed my posts showing Scripture's clear
statements on works as an inevitable result
easily by ten to one.
I have never said anything more than that
works follow faith and never precede it. I know
it's hard for formers to accept that, having
been burdened down by works all of their SDA
lives. But Scripture is Scripture. And there is
no Scripture which says that after salvation the
Christian is not under obligation to die to sin,
to put to death the misdeeds of the body, and
to obey Christ's commandments summed up
in the one verb "love."
Thank you so much for wishing me grace
always,
Max of the Cross |
Max
| | Posted on Monday, November 06, 2000 - 8:40 pm: | |
Thanks, Denise,
For reminding us that we need to make our
calling and election sure. |
Max
| | Posted on Monday, November 06, 2000 - 8:43 pm: | |
I need to add that dying to sin, putting to death
the miseeds of the body, and loving -- all good
works -- are done within the condition of being
sinless in Christ: sinful and sinless at the
same time. |
Cindy
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 6:46 am: | |
Dear Max, Good morning! Thanks for your kind post above. I know that you have welcomed the exchange of feelings here. I think I was concerned when you said that "'I agree with _____' or 'You're right, _______' are unacceptable substitutes for your own study of Scripture and expression of faith on FAFF." I was thinking it may discourage some who may not have the energy to post all the Scriptual support (already posted in a post they agree with), or who may not feel brave enough yet to speak boldly of their faith, but can say "I agree". I guess you were just trying to encourage their own thinking and studying for themselves; which is admirable!
Again, I feel that the preaching of the Absolutely Free Gift of Grace Alone beacuse of Christ Alone has a real element of danger attached to it. It can be misunderstood because it is such wonderful news, almost too good to be true!
And yet, the POWER and WISDOM of God STILL remain in the preaching of the CROSS!
Here, in the Gospel message of Christ crucified for us, is our true motivation for living any Christ-like morality.
May we all rest in His love and acceptance of us...and yes, Max, spur each other on in "good works". :-))
And yet, these works of love remaining ALWAYS THE RESULT of living in the REALITY of this GRACE, this SECURE SALVATION... and not as a condition on keeping it...
Grace always,
Cindy |
Max
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 8:50 am: | |
Morning, Cindy,
I find nothing in your post just above to
disagree with.
I would only emphasize that Scripture is
sacred. Only when "the line was crossed" and
somebody attacked the book of James did I
realize that I had to come out more strongly on
this web site.
Hear Peter on this point: "Bear in mind that our
Lord's patience means salvation, just as our
dear brother Paul also wrote you with the
wisdom that God gave him. He writes the
same way in all hs letters, speaking in them of
these matters. His letters contain some things
that are hard to understand, which ignorant
and unstable people distort, as they do the
other Scriptures, to their own distruction."
I've heard SDA ministers say from the pulpit
that that means Peter wasn't as smart as Paul
and couldn't understand everything Paul
wrote.
What utterly errant nonsense!
The NIV text note to 2 Peter 3:16 says that
Peter's reference to Paul writing "the same
way in all his letters" may refer "in general to
the exhortations to holy living ... which parallel
many passages in Paul's writings."
It also says this about the "ignorant and
unstable people": "The ignorant are simply the
unlearned who have not been taught basic
apostolic teaching and thus [being also
unstable] may be easily led astray."
At this point the text note refers specifically
back to 2 Peter 3:14: "So then, dear friends,
since you are looking forward to this, make
every effort to be found spotless, blameless
and at peace with him [God]."
Therefore, the "ignorant and unstable people"
Peter is talking about are people who, for
example were using Paul's powerful grace
statements as an excuse, for example, to
continue to live sexually immoral lives (1
Corinthians 5:1).
Peter is NOT saying that he can't understand
Paul or that he himself is "ignorant and
unstable"!
If any further scriptural proof is needed, read
the way Peter ends this Second Letter:
2 Peter 18:17-18. "Therefore, dear friends,
since you already know this, be on your guard
so that you may not be carried away by the
error of LAWLESS men and FALL from your
secure position. But grow in grace and
knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus
Christ. To him be glory both now and forever!
Amen."
And amen from me too,
Max of the Cross |
Maryann
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 9:02 am: | |
Hi All,
My SDA Mom has used 2 Peter 3:16 saying that she gets so "tired of Paul, Paul, Paul!"
"He is so confusing that ignorant and unstable people (NON-SDA's) are lead astray by
him"!!!;-(( Grrrrrrr!
She goes on to say that she is just soooo happy to NOW understand Revelation and it is such a comfort to her now that she has no fear of it!
Maryann |
Jimm
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 9:05 am: | |
Hi Max!
Thanks for sharing your understanding of Martin Luther's writings with us. Personally,I think whatever he had to say about Grace and Works is
very germain to our search for truth. Martin Luther was standing alone (Maybe a few friends?)
against the power and might of the very catholic church which was not far removed from the tactics
of the Inquisition. I am sure he put a lot of heart and soul into everything he wrote because it was sure to come under a magnifying glass searching for anything that could not be supported by new testament scripture. |
Max
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 9:08 am: | |
Is she aware that John wrote Revelation about
95 AD referring to "what must SOON take
place"? Or that "what must SOON take place"
was the REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST and
not 1844 or any "investigative judgment"? |
Maryann
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 9:34 am: | |
With the "White" colored glasses on again, her awareness is clouded. |
Maryann
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 7:49 pm: | |
Hi Anyone;-(!
I've been scrolling through threads for 2 hours looking for a post from Patti last week where she asked me a few questions!!!
Does anyone know where it is?;-)
I sure do miss "keyword search!"
Maryann |
|
