| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
Appreciated what you wrote, Maryann, a great deal. Keep bringing those treasures -- old and new -- out of the storehouse. Blessings! | ||
| Max |
COMMANDMENTS OF CHRIST IN THE WRITINGS OF JOHN GIVEN ONLY TO BELIEVERS (THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN JUSTIFIED BY GRACE AND LIVE BY FAITH PLUS NOTHING) John 13:34.ÝA new commandment I [Christ] give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. John 14:15.ÝIf ye love me, keep my [Christís] commandments. John 14:21.ÝHe that hath my [Christís] commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 15:10.ÝIf ye keep my [Christís] commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. John 15:12.ÝThis is my [Christís] commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 1 John 2:3. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his [Christís] commandments. 1 John 2:4.ÝHe that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his [Christís] commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 3:22.ÝAnd whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his [Christís] commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1 John 3:23.ÝAnd this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1 John 3:24.ÝAnd he that keepeth his [Christís] commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. 1 John 4:21.ÝAnd this commandment have we from him [Christ], That he who loveth God love his brother also. 1 John 5:2.ÝBy this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his [Christís] commandments. 1 John 5:3.ÝFor this is the love of God, that we keep his [Christís] commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 2 John 1:5. And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning [of Christís ministry on earth], that we love one another. 2 John 1:6.ÝAnd this is love, that we walk after his [Christís] commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. Revelation 12:17.ÝAnd the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God [Jesus Christ], and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 14:12.ÝHere is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God [Jesus Christ], and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 22:14.ÝBlessed are they that do his [Christís] commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Blessings to all, Max of the Cross | ||
| Dan |
Hi Max! It seems I have fallen behind some here in responding to your posts, but I will still try to address each one of them in order, as time permits. Moving to your next post, here was my question to you, and here is your response: DAN: ìWhat if I never ñ ever ñ witness? Will I be lost if I hide my light under a bushel? If I willingly (but unnecessarily) live my entire life as a hermit on a mountaintop ñ have I by this choice forfeited any chance at being saved?î MAX: ìYou're asking me questions I can't answer. Nor can anyone else. Only God knows the heart. Only God knows the future. And only God can answer such questions. I can point you to Scripture, however -- Luke 9:57-62 NIV:î ------------- I asked if a follower of Christ such as myself hides his light under a bushel, will they be lost, and you said you donít know. This reveals a lack of certainty on your part as to whether or not salvation really is in fact achieved by Godís grace alone. You keep saying you believe in righteousness by faith alone, and yet you seem to be unable to completely accept the fact that man has no role whatsoever in saving himself (aside from having faith.) You are still trying to find things that man MUST contribute to the salvation process. You are still trying to tie in some kind of ìcommandment-keepingî to the salvation process. You are still looking for ìcommandmentsî which MUST BE KEPT ñ or else our salvation will be in doubt. We are saved if we have faith in Jesus Christ, Max, and I certainly do. Salvation is a finished work, and so long as I have faith in our Savior, His saving work will not be UNDONE by anything I may or may not do in this life. Salvation is not based upon our righteousness, but Christís. If you want to know whether I am saved, Max, you need to look to Christís righteousness, not mine. I fall short in virtually everything. "'All that the Father giveth me, shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast outî (John 6:37). "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life" (John 5:24, NIV). "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved" (Romans 10:13, NIV). "Know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justifiedî (Galatians 2:16). By implying that failure to comply with certain ìcommandmentsî may put oneís salvation in jeopardy, you are adding something to the Bible that isnít there; you are adding a requirement for salvation that Jesus never gave us. "I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life" (John 6: 47, NIV). Jesus didnít say, ìhe who believes + witnesses and letís his light shine sufficiently" has everlasting life. No, Jesus said ìhe who believes" ñ period - has everlasting life. Dan | ||
| Max |
Dan: Thank you for your judgment of me and my faith. I want you to know that I do not judge you and your faith. Everyone else on this website: You've read what I've written here. Do you agree with Dan's judgment of me? Blessings to Dan and all, Max of the Cross | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Dan, You asked: ìWhat if I never ñ ever ñ witness? Will I be lost if I hide my light under a bushel? If I willingly (but unnecessarily) live my entire life as a hermit on a mountaintop ñ have I by this choice forfeited any chance at being saved?î No God fearing human would ever answer that question!! That is a question that is between you and God and you and God alone! What ever the case, thank you for your contributions, thoughts and questions on this forum. Thank God we have the liberty to discuss openly our beliefs!;-)) Maryann | ||
| Patti |
Max made the statement that "letting our light shine" was a command, giving the implication that "witnessing" is required for our salvation. The question Dan asked is a fair one. One that I would like to hear an answer to, quite honestly. ìWhat if I never ñ ever ñ witness? Will I be lost if I hide my light under a bushel? If I willingly (but unnecessarily) live my entire life as a hermit on a mountaintop ñ have I by this choice forfeited any chance at being saved?î | ||
| Max |
JESUS CHRIST TELLS TRUE BELIEVERS TO OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS, FOR HIS PERFECT AND SINLESS RIGHTEOUSNESS ALONE WORKING THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE ONLY THING THAT ENABLES US TO DO SO. THOUGH WE ALWAYS DO SO POORLY, WE STILL DO SO. HERE'S THE EVIDENCE FROM SCRIPTURE ALONE: 15 "If you love me [Jesus Christ], you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." 22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?" 23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. --John 14:15 -24 NIV With malice to none and love to all, Max of the Cross | ||
| Dan |
If I have offended you in some way, Max, I apologize. That was certainly not my intention. I do not know you personally and have not claimed to. What I have responded to is certain posts addressed to me under the name ìMax.î I have responded to those posts to the best of my ability. I have not attempted to attack anyone or to pass any judgment on any real, live person. I am addressing the words and views expressed. As you may know, it is difficult to carry on a forum dialogue speaking in purely objective, non-personal language. If I make the statement ìYou seem to clearly believe Öî ñ this is just part of my manner of discussion. I certainly am not trying to say I know that some actual person - of whom I have no real personal knowledge - believes some particular thing. Maybe it would be best if you and I just cease responding to each other for awhile. I certainly would feel bad if I thought I had offended someone. While I feel very strongly about my beliefs, the notion of offending or hurting people is repugnant to me. I am new to this forum and in general people have made me feel welcome here. I know some people are more sensitive than others and that some are not as suited to vigorous discussion as are others. The problem is, I have not yet gotten to know who is who on this forum. Iím not certain if it is what I am saying which is upsetting you, or how I am saying it. You say you have not been judging me and yet you keep implying that my views are not biblical ñ that I am expressing unbiblical and extra-biblical material. If I had wanted to take that personally I could have viewed it as a personal, judgmental attack on me ñ but I didnít. I just accepted those remarks as part of our discussion of PRINCIPLES, not PERSONALITIES. Anyway, I am just going to hold off on responding to you for awhile now. I love discussion and I even enjoy mild, friendly debate. But I do not enjoy discussions where things get nasty and I certainly never want to offend anyone. So, again, if I offended you I apologize. Dan | ||
| Patti |
This is almost funny! This same conversation is going on between traditionalist SDAs and those who believe in the Gospel of salvation by grace through faith alone on another forum! And the SDAs always take your position, Max! So I guess I will ask you what has been asked of them on this other forum: So is the "merit," then, in the trying to keep the commandments, and not necessarily in the attaining therof? Is it OK if we fail horribly, although we are "trying"? Does God give us a "bye" if we are "sincere"? What "degree" of "trying" to keep the commandments is required? If we do not try with all our heart, soul, and mind, are we lost? I await your answers to the questions above, as well as the previous one of Dan's which you have not truly answered yet. You see what a tangled web we begin to weave when we try to tie in obedience, commandment-keeping, law, etc, to our salvation? | ||
| Billthompson |
Patti, With tongue firmly planted in cheek, I say that the "merit" tests you describe above would require some sort of "investigation" of one's life to see if they were "trying" (though failing) enough to for God to save them. This "investigation" would would help God make a "judgement" as to who should be saved...hey wait a minute here...this is the "investigative judgement"...any wonder current and former SDAs would tend to think this way? The problem I see with all this goes way back to wrong soteriology and also a lack of awe for the soveignty of God. People are limited in their view of God when they think this way. Fearing that one can lose salvation implies it is the strength of our grip on God's hand, rather than the strength of His grip on ours which matters. If we place our hand in His, He will not let go, John 6:37. So what do we make of the things Jesus said about how we need to be perfect, righteous even as the Father is righteous, etc. These teaching must be put in their proper context or they'll lead to the exact opposite of the intended purpose. (I know you know this Patti, this "for the record" only, and to add my two cents to the Max/Dan dialogue). Jesus was talking to law keeping Jews in these passages. Many were content with their "righteousness" since they were part of God's chosen (remnant) people. They were also looking to Him as a worldly leader who would make them the ruling class. They were not looking for, nor even feeling the need for a Saviour. That was His purpose, make them see their need of a Saviour. This is the same purpose the law has today for an unbeliever. Properly viewed it humbles a person and makes them very receptive to the Good News. I believe that was Jesus purpose, to take these self righteous people and make them see their need for a Saviour. Once one has assurance of their own salvation, these things all fit together so much better. A Sinner Saved By Grace Alone, Bill Thompson | ||
| Maryann |
Hi All, My post just vaporized;-(( Oh well, probably just as well. Here is the more to the point and much abreviated version. Getting a chiding about an "antagonistic tone" from the web-master-ette should not be taken lightly!!! We are all adults! Let's act like adults and leave the school yard personal attacks out of these discussions! It really would be funny if it was not so sad! If I have offended, been rude or antagonized anyone, please forgive me! I'm sorry! Maryann | ||
| Max |
Hi Dan, I am not offended in any way shape or form. Quite to the contrary I'm having a good time. It's very difficult to offend me since I've found Christ, whereas before it was very easy. With malice to none and love to all, Max of the Cross | ||
| Patti |
Hi, Bill! It is so good to hear from you again. You wrote: That was His purpose, make them see their need of a Saviour. This is the same purpose the law has today for an unbeliever. Properly viewed it humbles a person and makes them very receptive to the Good News. I believe that was Jesus purpose, to take these self righteous people and make them see their need for a Saviour. You are very right. Paul elaborates on this in Galatians. The entire sermon on the mount is about law. People may say that Jesus made the law easier to keep in these chapters, but He actually made it infinitely more difficult. If you have time, I would love to hear your comments on the Sermon on the Mount in the thread below. Hoping you and yours are well, Grace and peace, Patti | ||
| Max |
JESUS CHRIST TEACHES TRUE BELIEVERS TO OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS, FOR HIS PERFECT AND SINLESS RIGHTEOUSNESS ALONE ENABLES US TO DO SO, THOUGH NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST: John 13:34-35 NIV: "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." With malice toward none and charity toward all, Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
ALL HUMAN OPINIONS TO THE CONTRARY, THE WORDS OF CHRIST STILL RING TRUE 1 John 5:1-5 NIV: 1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
REGARDLESS OF WHAT ANYONE OR ANY GROUP SAYS ON THIS WEBSITE, SCRIPTURE SAYS: 19 We love because he first loved us. 20 If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21 And he [Christ] has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother. --1 John 4:19-21 Dear friends of this web site, beware of anyone who says anything to the contrary. Blessings to all, Max of the Cross | ||
| Cindy |
Dan, I absolutely agree with your above post. "Jesus didnít say, ìhe who believes + witnesses and letís his light shine sufficiently" has everlasting life. No, Jesus said ìhe who believes" ñ period - has everlasting life." Amen! I'm starting to read an interesting book called "Absolute Grace" (wonderful title!), by Zane Hodges. He addresses what we have been discussing here... Of course, Jesus call us all to an intense discipleship... but not everyone responds to this in the same way; and maybe some even seem to not even respond at all, at least visibly! "Count the cost", Jesus says. Regardless, Salvation is bestowed by faith alone! in the simple belief in the act and fact of Christ crucified for me! Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Max |
Dear FAFF reader, Let me quote from the NIV Introduction to the First Letter of John on the "occasion and purpose" of this apostle's blessed Scripture: "John's readers were confronted with an early form of Gnostic teaching of the Cerinthian variety (see Gnosticism). This heresy was also libertine, throwing off all moral restraints. "Consequently, John wrote this letter with two basic purposes in mind: (1) to expose false teachers (2:26) and (2) to give believers assurance of salvation (5:13). In keeping with his intention to combat Gnostic teachers, John specifically struck at their total lack of morality (3:8-10); and by giving eyewitness testimony to the incarnation, he sought to confirm his readers' belief in the incarnate Christ (1:3). Success in this would give the writer joy (1:4)." Do not be misled, therefore, by modern "Cerinthian Gnostics" -- regardless of how many there are, how clever their sophistries or how funny their jokes may seem to be. Stick with Scripture and Scripture alone. I will quote here a single passage -- 1 John 2:26-29 NIV: 26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him. 28 And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming. 29 If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who DOES WHAT IS RIGHT has been born of him." With malice toward none and charity toward all, Max of the Cross | ||
| Patti |
Cindy, You make a good point that all are called to discipleship. And what is the most important thing we can do? Testify of Jesus: spread the Good News that Jesus Christ has won the victory over sin and death; that everyone who believes in Him truly has everlasting life. Faith comes of hearing. If we do not tell, how will others hear? Of course, God doesn't really NEED us in that sense; He could cause the rocks to cry out in our place. But I truly believe that when we see the great price Jesus paid for our redemption, when we see that His righteousness is absolutely sufficient for all of our needs, then we cannot help but "let our light shine," as it were. Then other hear, others tell, yet others believe. What was the testimony of the disciples and the apostles? 1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God-- 2 the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3 regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, 4 and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5 Through him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith. Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle--sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead-- 2 and all the brothers with me, To the churches in Galatia: 3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance. 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. } Hebrews 1:1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven 1 Tim 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope, 2 To Timothy my true son in the faith: Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord. The message of the apostles and disciples was of the wondrous victory of Jesus Christ over sin and death. We can to no better. We simply cannot go wrong when we choose to focus on the merits of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ solely. | ||
| Max |
Dear FAF readers, I'm speaking right now to from 3,000 to 4,000 people who are checking into this web site on a weekly basis according to the best estimates of webmaster Richard Tinker. And he is very conservative with his estimates. This web site is sacred. It has been dedicated with much prayer to the Lord. And I can assure you from the bottom of my heart that no "lawlessness movement" (known in theological circles as antinomianism) is going to take it over, no matter how many their numbers, how clever their sophistries, how funny their jokes. Scripture alone decides, never human opinions. They may start their own web site if they wish. But the FAF web site is not going allow readers to be deceived into believing that FAF agrees with any philosophy that uses God's precious grace to throw off all moral restraint. Following is a passage of Scripture to which everyone who posts here should be able to eagerly subscribe. Please note that John is not addressing unbelievers, but believers. 4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. --1 John 3:4-10 NIV With malice toward none and with charity toward all, Max of the Cross |
