| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
IF YOU FAIL TO JUDGE OTHERS, YOU WILL BE VICTIMIZED BY THEM A crippling misconception is rampant, especially among observant Adventists, that believers should do no judging of others at all. This misconception is based on an unfortunate misreading of Matthew 7:1-2. Here it is (in RBV): ^^ Do not pass judgment, that you may not be judged; for the way you judge you will be judged and with what yardstick you measure you will be measured. ^^ From the Sermon on Mt. Blessings I have learned three lessons: Lesson No. 1. As the NIV Study Bible text note for this passage makes clear, Jesus means, Do not judge HYPOCRITICALLY. For if you do, then others will rightfully judge you hypocritically under Christís ìmeasure for measureî MFM teaching. However, under that same MFM teaching, if you judge someone humbly and according to Scripture, then others will judge you humbly and according to Scripture. And isnít that the way you want to be judged? Especially by other Christ-followers? I do. Lesson No. 2. Reading on: ^^ ìBut why notice the splinter in your brotherís eye without taiking notice of the beam in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ëLet me extract that splinter from our eye,í when there is a beam in your own eye? You hypocrite! First get rid of that beam in your eye; then you will see clearly to extract the splinter from your brotherís eye.î ^^ Jesus makes absolutely clear here that he is addressing the hypocrite. He specificies exactly so with the clause, ìYou hypocrite!î He is not speaking to his meek, Good-Shepherd-following sheep. Lesson No. 2. In the very next verse, Matthew 7:6, he does address his sheep, for they possess that which is ìsacred,î the gospel ìpearls" that he has given them. Thus he says, ìDo not give what is sacred to the dogs, so that they may not turn around and attack you; neither throw your pearls before the hogs, so that they may not trample them under their feet.î Plainly and simply, Jesus commands Christians to exercise judgment. Else we would not be able to distinguish the person who is ready to hear the gospel from one who isnít. ìWE SHALL JUDGE ... THE ... AFFAIRS OF THIS LIFEî Yes indeed, Paul does tell the Corinthian saints to judge each other! The passage is found in 1 Corinthians 6:1-6 (RBV): ^^ Does one who has a case against someone else dare to go to law before a pagan court and not before the saints? Are you not aware that THE SAINTS WILL JUDGE THE WORLD? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you not competent to be judges of minor matters? Do you not know that WE SHALL JUDGE angels, not to mention THE minor AFFAIRS OF THIS LIFE? When, however, you do have an everyday case, do you appoint for JUDGES those in the church who have no standing? I say this to shame you. Is there really not a single wise person among you who is capable of DECIDING between brothers...? ^^ This is an exceedingly interesting passage in that the SDA hierarchy teaches the SDA pew-sitter, ìJudge not that ye be not judgedî -- which Jesus directed ONLY at the hypocrite -- so that they will not judge the shenanigans of the likes of erstwhile GC prexy Robert Folkenberg! No, my dear Adventist friend, if youíve swallowed that line and sinker, then youíve also swallowed the hook that prevents you from seeing and APPROPRIATELY JUDGING the hierarchical depredations and perpetrations that hurt YOU -- mis-spending your tithe, for example -- as well as many other innocent SDA people. Yes, God wants -- and commands! -- you to judge others, just not hypocritically. May the Holy Spirit free you gently from the chains of which you are unaware, Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
"JUDGE NOT THAT YE BE NOT JUDGED" IS NOT ABOUT PASSING ETERNAL JUDGMENT ON OTHERS It can't be. The context eliminates that possibility. Here is the passage in the NIV translation: ^^ Matthew 7 1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 "How can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. ^^ For if Jesus were talking about the eternal judgment he would NOT be talking about seeing "see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." Conclusion: Jesus is talking about judging "the affairs of THIS life," not the next. Nor is he saying not to judge. He's actually saying TO judge, just not hypocritically. He's telling us to un-hypocriticize ourselves (by accepting His righteousness by faith) and THEN we will be able to judge "the affairs of this life" -- removing the speck from a brother's eye. So at its most fundamental level, this passage IS actually preaching nothing less than the gospel of righteousness by faith alone, is it not? Max of the Cross | ||
| George |
Hi Max, I think you are straining at gnats here. Why should we have to or want to judge anyone? If you judge someone like you are saying, the next step would be to go to them and tell them they are doing something wrong. Now, if they didn't ask for your help and don't want it, you are then just medling, and no one likes that. So I think the idea of not judging someone period, is still the best, as we can never get all the sticks out of our own eyes. George | ||
| Max |
You're right, George, We can't get all the sticks out of our own eyes. Only Christ can do that. It would be great if we didn't have to judge anyone. Unfortunately we do. In 1 Corinthians 5 and 6 Paul "shames" those there "made holy in Christ Jesus" (1:2, RBV) for failing to make all sorts of judgments. One member was sleeping with his step-mother (5:1-2) and the Corinthian saints, rather than "grieving" were "puffed up" about it, meaning they were proud that they felt so sophisticated that they could just let that matter pass. Paul said, "I have already ... passed judgment on the one who thus behaved" (5:3). Others were also "immoral or greedy or a robber." Paul: "You must not associate with him, nor even eat with one of that type" (5:13). This is not the type of judgment that sends a person to heaven or hell. It is the behavior of others that you must judge in order to determine your behavior towards them. Paul is not talking about judging the affairs of the afterlife. He is talking about judging the affairs of this life. "Do you not know that we shall judge ... affairs of this life?" (6:3). And Jesus says to first pull the plank from one's own eye (that is, accept Christ) and then see clearly to remove the speck from a brother's eye. He never says to leave the speck there! He says to remove it. Blessings on you George, Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
"STOP JUDGING BY MERE APPEARANCES, AND MAKE A RIGHT JUDGMENT." -Jesus in John 7:24 NIV. I heard this story recently on the radio. A woman -- I'll call her Stephanie -- who was flying from New York to Seattle had a stopover at O'Hare International in Chicago. Sitting in her airline's waiting bay for her departing flight, she became hungry for something sweet. So she asked an honest-looking, well-dressed man sitting on the other side of the empty seat between them, "Would you save my seat for a few minutes while I run an errand?" He smiled and said he'd be happy to do so. So, picking up her carry-on bag, Stephanie walked down the arcade and purchased a red-and-white striped bag of a few chocolate-chip cookies from the Baked Right Here franchise. Then she walked back to her seat which the man had kindly saved for her. Needing to check her ticket with correct time and gate number, she forgot momentarily about her bag of cookies. But hunger soon reminded her and she reached her hand into the red-and-white striped bag on the seat between herself and the kindly-seeming man. She pulled out a cookie and began to eat it. But imagine her shock when the man immediately reached his hand in after hers and also pulled out a cookie and begin to eat it. Anger welled in her. Who did he think he was! Did he think he deserved payment for just saving her seat? But she stifled her ire, reached in and pulled out a second cookie. To her even greater anger, the man followed suit again. "Incredible!" she thought. He had looked so nice! Should she say something to him? But Stephanie hated confrontation, and so decided to let the matter pass. There was only one cookie left. She reached for it. Only to redden with fury when the supposedly kindly man, reached in ahead of her and beat her to the last cookie! Then, in a gesture that seemed to her the ultimate in chutzpah, the man broke the last cookie in two, gave her one half and put the other half in his own mouth! This was the last straw! The only thing that saved the wrtech from being clubbed over the head with Stephanie's carry-on bag, was the announcement that her plane was leaving and she would have to go get in line to board her plane to Seattle. "The oaf!" she fumed. "He's sooo lucky!" Seated on the plane at last and waiting for takeoff, as Stephanie rummaged around in her carry-on bag for the paperback novel she had been reading, her hand touched something that felt strangely familiar. What was it? She opened the bag, looked in, and . . . . There was her red-and-white-striped bag of chocolate-chip cookies. Max of the Cross | ||
| Joni |
What a lesson for us all. There is a time to judge and a time not to judge. There is a time for all things under heaven. Joni | ||
| Max |
EXAMPLE FROM SCRIPTURE OF EARLY CHURCH LEADER JAMES JUDGING THE NON-SDA GENTILES WHO WERE ENTERING THE CHURCH IN OVERWHELMING NUMBERS MUCH TO THE CONSTERNATON OF THE SDA JEWS FROM JERUSALEM Acts 15:18-20 (NIV) ^^ 19 "It is my JUDGMENT, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood." ^^ What does everybody think? | ||
| Max |
JESUS REQUIRES US TO JUDGE OTHERS Matthew 10 (NIV): 11 "Whatever town or village you enter, SEARCH FOR SOME WORTHY PERSON there and stay at his house until you leave. 13 IF THE HOME IS DESERVING, let your peace rest on it; IF IT IS NOT, let your peace return to you. 14 IF ANYONE WILL NOT WELCOME YOU or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. 16 I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore BE AS SHREWD AS SNAKES and as innocent as doves. 17 "BE ON YOUR GUARD against men; they will hand you over to the local councils and flog you in their synagogues. 23 WHEN YOU ARE PERSECUTED IN ONE PLACE, FLEE to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes. 26 "So DO NOT BE AFRAID OF THEM. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 28 DO NOT BE AFRAID OF THOSE WHO KILL THE BODY but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 35 For I have come to turn "`a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law-- 36 a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' 37 "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 40 "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me. 41 Anyone who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and anyone who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man's reward. 42 And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward." Max of the Cross | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Max, George and I talked this morning about this line. He explained why "thread" did not agree with him (and he has a point.) I first explained to him that hypocritical judging was not part of this conversation. That kind of judging is anti-Biblical. What we were talking, I told him, was stuff like; is this a Christian family with values and do I want my kids to associate with their kids? Or, this person claims to be a Christian, do I think there are ulterior motives in this friendship or are they using "Christian" as a way to gain something immoral? He said, "ahh hah, that's NOT judging, that is "evaluating!!" And yes, we should do that. He suggested that we use a word like "evaluate" or a syn. of that in place of "judging" and a lot less hairs would be rubbed the wrong way. What thinkest thou about that? Maryann | ||
| Max |
George certainly does have a point. And I will remember that in my future conversations on this subject. The bad news is that the Bible, particularly the New Testament, uses the word "judgment" in BOTH senses: 1. To condemn. 2. To evaluate. So we're sort of stuck with that fact. But the good news is that some of the better PARAPHRASES do make the distinction. For example, here is Matthew 7:1-6 in the Contemporary English Version (CEV): ^^Don't condemn others, and God won't condemn you. God will be as hard on you as you are on others! He will treat you exactly as you treat them. You can see the speck in your friend's eye, but you don't notice the log in your own eye. How can you say, "My friend, let me take the speck out of your eye," when you don't see the log in your own eye? First, take the log out of your own eye. [In context this isn't legalism, but means to be born again in Christ.] Then you can see how to take the speck out of your friend's eye. Don't give to dogs what belongs to God. They will only turn and attack you. Don't throw pearls down in front of pigs. They will trample all over them.^^ Nuff sed? | ||
| Joni |
Max, What happens when I see all the logs in my eyes. Today was not a good day for me and I see so many logs in my eyes!!!!! Joni | ||
| Max |
Hi Joni, What do you think happens? Jesus was talking to hypocritical Pharisees who didn't know they had logs in their eyes. Yet he said, "Remove the log from your eye in order to see clearly to pick the speck from your brother's eye." What do you think he meant? How do you think he would answer your question? | ||
| George |
Maryann, In your post of oct 2 you sound a lot like Allen and that bunch in Brownsville. If you always "evaluate' people for these things, the way you make it sound we would all just see the bad in those around us. It would be better to look at people and see the things that would make you say --- now there is a person I would like to be around,--- rather I wouldn't want to be around him because- - - - - . | ||
| Maryann |
Hi George, Hmmmmmmmmm, Brownsville bunch huh??!;-))) The "evaluating" the Brownsviller's do and what I was attempting to describe are as different as you and me! He, he, he, he!;-)) Now, we talked about this a month ago and seemed to understand each other. Who lost their understanding, you or me?;-(( It has to be you as it's your turn to be wrong;-(( If a person is living a moral life and is dating, wouldn't it be a good idea to "evaluate" your date's motives by the actions exhibited as to whether you will be squawking date rape the next morning. That is not Brownsviller evaluating! Nor is it hypocritical! If you have a room full of company from Church and one person keeps wandering off to off limit places and asked nosey questions, would you be right in figuring he may be "casing" the joint? If my child's Church friends parent's have drug parties at their house and lots of TVs for sale, would evaluating that as a place NOT to be, wrong? Those may be radical examples?? But the Bible says in Matthew 10:11 "Whatever town or village you enter, SEARCH FOR SOME WORTHY PERSON there and stay at his house until you leave." In my mind, that means you need to evaluate worthy from un-worthy. Soooo, Brownsviller I'm NOT;-(( Well, geographicly it would be nice, huh? And remember, this was my turn to be right;-)))) Any of you new comer's that think this was an "odd" post. It ought to be as I am the "odd" sister of my "odd" brother;-(( We have really had some fun by spotting some older pair of ladies in a store and having a mock fight! They think we are husband and wife (uuuw yuk)having a real spat. Then the real fun is after they look in horror at each other, we tell them we are brother and sister having fun!;-)) They laugh and probably go home with a smile. That was our "good deed" of the day. :):):)......Sis | ||
| Lorinc |
John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." There it is, in Christ's own words, from a highly respected literal translation (NASB). The warnings posted above about being *judgmental* and presumptuous are important, too, and appreciated. But Max is on solid ground, here -- as usual! :-) - Lorin | ||
| Jtree |
Food for thought! ADAMíS TRANSGRESSION Romans 5:14 Adamís transgression", as the Holy Spirit describes it, included all aspects of sin. His one transgression was a total, complete breach of Godís holy law. The laws of God, according to James 2:10, are so intertwined that he that "offends in one point is guilty of all." One of the old writers said, "Adam, at one clap, broke both tables of the law, and all the commandments of God." If we carefully read the summary given of Godís law in Exodus 20:1-17 it becomes evident to us that Adamís one act of rebellion, sin, and disobedience was, indeed, a transgression of each of the commandments. 1.He chose another God, when he followed the devil. 2.He idolized and deified his own belly. He made his belly his God. He bowed to and served his inward lusts rather than the Lord his God. 3.He took the name of God in vain when he refused to believe Him. He spoke Godís name, but reverenced Him not as God. 4.He kept not the rest and estate wherein God had set him, thus violating, breaking, and disregarding the sabbath day, which typified the salvation of sinners by trusting the finished work of Christ. Thus, he despised Godís Son and Godís salvation. 5.He dishonored his Father which was in heaven. Therefore his days were not long in that land which the Lord his God had given him. He was soon cut off from life, expelled from the garden, and banished from the presence of and communion with the holy Lord God. 6.He murdered, in the most horrible massacre of all history, himself and all his posterity. Adam, by his one act of transgression, not only broke all Godís holy law, but slaughtered the entire human race. 7.He committed spiritual fornication and adultery. He went whoring after other gods. Fornication and adultery are horrible evils, but no form of immorality compares with the evil of spiritual adultery, which is idolatry. 8.He stole that which God had set aside not to be meddled with. Thus, his sin brought trouble to the whole world, just as Achanís sin was that which brought trouble to all Israel. 9.He bore witness against God when he believed not His word. Unbelief is the blasphemously daring declaration of Adam and his offspring that God is a liar (1 John 5:10). 10.He coveted an evil covetousness, which cost him his life, and all this brought death upon all his family. It is this death, this spiritual death, which is the result of Adamís sin, which Paul speaks of when he says, "In Adam all die." It is this spiritual death in which all human beings live by nature. Yes, you and I are all guilty of each of these horrible transgressions. We have all broken each of Godís commands, not once, not twice, but from our youth up, all the days of our lives. We are all wilful transgressors, obstinate sinners, deliberate workers of iniquity. There are no exceptions. Until you acknowledge yourself to be a sinner, just like our father Adam, you will never obtain Godís mercy in Christ. But, as soon as you confess your sin, you have the forgiveness of all sin through the blood of Christ. It is written, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. AMEN? Standing on the Rock. | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Jtree, I don't talk to you very often;-(( Maybe your growth is in a different mountain range then mine;-)) Anyway, you make some wonderful and well studied out post's! Keep up the good work! I have a question for you. What age decade do you fit in? Somehow, Jtree sounds like a teenager! Somehow, your post's sound much more mature! Maryann | ||
| Jtree |
Maryann, Greetings and please do talk to me more, :-). To answer your question my age? I can handle over 40's but prefer to be called 42 years YOUNG. Joshua. The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold. Psalm 18:2 |
