| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 860 Registered: 11-2005 |
Just when I thought I had heard it all, a currently practicing Seventh-day Adventist pastor posts this statement in another forum:
The truth is the road to freedom. Gilbert Jorgensen It has been 162 Years, 11 Months, and 8 Days since October 22, 1844 | ||
| Treasurehntr Registered user Username: Treasurehntr Post Number: 40 Registered: 7-2007 |
Oh, that burns me up! I had such a hard time understanding the Trinity and an even harder time accepting it. Now this Methinks Arian roots is rearing its ugly head again. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 220 Registered: 5-2007  |
Gilbert, Yuck, what a statement. It isn't even logical. There is nothing better than "best". And, Jesus really is "best". I just ran this by my wife and her response, without any coaching from me, was; "But they are one God". Thanks for todays posting and keep it up because they are all treasures. In his name, Jusus Christ, thank you, Phil | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1564 Registered: 9-2006  |
I just read this morning I read Hebrews 12:25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, He spoke from heaven and said “hear his Son”. If we go on the Job and the foreman says “see that you do this or that, this means that he has said for you to do something that takes priority. In Hebrews 12:25 here we have the words see to it that you not refuse or give priority over. Jesus is the express image of the father, how could there be more? He is everything we have to do with and to recognize him is our first priority. Nothing takes priority over Jesus, the king of all Kings and Lord of Lords and in my opinion the man who would make that statement is a charlatan and a quack. Jesus will rein forever more and every knee shall bow and say there is no other. There is no other name or thing under heaven by which we may be saved or blessed. Angels stand in awe at his glory. Hallelujah! Whew! What a reaction I get when I hear things like that. River | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 221 Registered: 5-2007 |
Wow River, When you get done chewin' there isn't much left but bits of bone an' hide. Sure didn't leave much for anyone else to get a 'bite on'. I read your post out loud without taking more than two or three breaths. Then, just for emphasis, I pounded my computer table and durn near busted it. You pretty much said it all. Jesus is foremost and our all in all things. For one thing, in Paul's writtings, ever issue or problem centers around the nature and work of Jesus and the Cross. And, this is the way the Father intended it. Phil | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1070 Registered: 10-2002  |
I loved this little book by Watchman Nee called, "Christ the Sum of All Spiritual Things". In the book, Nee drills in this point over and over--(praise God)-- "We must see that God has not given us many things, but He has given us His Son." | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 819 Registered: 7-2004  |
I'm aware of that statement, context, and discussion surrounding it that Gilbert quoted, though it has been awhile since I read it. If I recall correctly, the statement had absolutely nothing to do with the question of the Trinity, Arianist roots, etc. Instead it was a statement to mean that the Adventist message is a complete message, and "only Jesus" isn't enough. For example, Sabbath and the "healthy" SDA lifestyle were specific "blessings" mentioned. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2183 Registered: 10-2004  |
I'm sorry to sicken you guys even further, but the full quote is actually even worse than what Gilbert posted. In the last sentence of the quote, he even took back what he said about Jesus being the best:
Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on September 30, 2007) | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 784 Registered: 6-2006  |
I just don't know where he can divide Jesus from his own self. Over and over again I read from the SDA's in there that they believe that Jesus is God, and then the pastor comes in and makes that telling statement. One of the other posters wrote something that was so true. They said "After seeing (the pastor's) statement that "Jesus is the best, but God gives us so much more", it's no wonder he feels the need to try and keep the sabbath and other laws because obviously Jesus isn't enough." I really hope that the pastor will take to heart the reaction he's getting from the rest of the members and realize how wrong that statement is. Leigh Anne (Message edited by grace_alone on September 30, 2007) | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4357 Registered: 3-2004  |
Hi all, I have that pastor on my special prayer list. He can write some off the wall things and that is one of the worst. So let us pray for him, that God will get a hold of him. Diana | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 820 Registered: 7-2004 |
Yes it is very sickening, but the statement still never had anything to do with the Trinity. It was mainly about the Sabbath and basically placing it at least equal to, if not more important, than Jesus. Now I suppose it could be interpreted that anyone who thinks Jesus is a gift in the very same sense that the Sabbath is or was a gift, must not have a very high view of Jesus, and may even consider Jesus less than God. But that wasn't his point. And I doubt he would even realize it comes across that way. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 861 Registered: 11-2005 |
Jeremy, thank you so much for the direct reference. You are a wonderful help with all your references. I wondered where it originated. I read the comment another person made about it, and in spite of reading the SDA pastor's other position statements, I found it incomprehensible that anyone could say that. I guess reading it today was especially bad for me, because I had just come out of an absolutely wonderful Sunday worship service (aren't they all!) where Jesus is the center of our focus. What a blessing, and then "bam" -- this from an SDA pastor, of all people! After I had let it sink in for a moment I thought, "That really is no different than what Tom Mostert said: Did you notice that he is saying this in a sarcastic manner? And since when was Ellen White an essential component of our salvation? Talk about being myopic. This statement doesn't even include any non-Adventist (Christians) at all! Every day I am more and more convinced that Seventh-day Adventism is every bit as much a cult as Mormonism -- only much more deceitful. The truth is the road to freedom. Gilbert Jorgensen It has been 162 Years, 11 Months, and 8 Days since October 22, 1844 | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 785 Registered: 6-2006 |
Raven, I see what you're saying, but still, the statement in any conversation sounds very wrong. Now, I like that fellow enough and especially have respect for him in that he hangs around at all and keeps trying. He may not have realized what he really sounded like, (do you think perhaps he put the comma in the wrong spot? Like he was trying to say that the "Jesus" part of God isn't all there is?) anyway you slice it though, it still just sounds awful! Leigh Anne (Message edited by grace_alone on September 30, 2007) | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1071 Registered: 10-2002 |
"For in Him all the fullness of God dwells, and you have been given fullness in Christ." (Colossians 2:9) God has "blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ." (Ephesians 1:3) Jesus is EVERYTHING! In Him, we have everything. God has given us Himself. It's incredible. He is incredible! The only way we can say "there is so much more" is if we haven't truly understood that He is everything, that He is the Alpha and Omega of our lives and our needs. Thank You, Jesus, for being everything we need! We pray that You would open others' eyes to see the glory of Your Son, Father, in Jesus' name, amen. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 862 Registered: 11-2005 |
Leigh Anne, I agree. I can't even fathom the pastors at the Baptist Church I attend making such as statement. For a person who believes in the book of Hebrews, nothing else even comes close! Gilbert | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 863 Registered: 11-2005 |
Raven, I believe that you are correct. For the pastor that made this statement, the context gives the impression that he just viewed it as a matter-of-fact belief of his. To paraphrase what he said, "There is Jesus, and then there are critical truths given by God to his special Remnant Church, the Seventh-day Adventist denomination. These truths are the Sabbath and the unique gift of the Spirit of Prophecy as manifested in Ellen White." Reading his other posts give me the distinct impression that he feels the same as Tom Mostert. All this talk about Jesus doesn't do anything for either of them. The Sabbath and Spirit of Prophecy (as manifested by Ellen White) are the central end-time focus. Would you say this correctly represents what you have observed? To me just the thought causes an immediate visceral reaction. How can either this pastor or Tom Moster, Pacific Union Conference President, say such things? Gilbert | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6907 Registered: 12-2003  |
Yes, I have heard Adventists say about "regular" Christians, "All they can talk about is Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!" Present truth, as my MIL explains, includes more than what the New Testament presents. That was present truth for then. Today we have present truth as revealed by Ellen. (The health message, for example....) You know, when I was Adventist, that pastor's comment would have made sense. I had no feeling of outrage when Jesus was diminished. Isn't that telling? Jesus was only one link in the salvation chain. Today we have "so much more"...our salvation chain includes Sabbath, health, a Messenger, Three Angels, a pre-advent judgment...how blessed can one group possibly be?! Colleen | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 821 Registered: 7-2004 |
Exactly, Gilbert and Colleen. He (the pastor) was indeed saying God's gifts, all of which are best gifts, include Jesus PLUS Sabbath, health message, EGW, etc. That is so contradictory to what Paul said, "For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified." 1 Corinthians 2:2. If Jesus was enough for Paul, He's enough for me! I remember how thankful I felt for that when it finally dawned on me. | ||
| Mommyk Registered user Username: Mommyk Post Number: 46 Registered: 4-2007  |
My (extended) family keep telling me that they know I love Jesus, BUT I also know the "truth" that only the Adventist church has. I've "indeed apostatized from the Adventist church and have found a religion (Christianity I guess *wink*) which fits my life instead of a religion which Jesus asked me to commit to." Having Jesus isn't enough, apparently. All of us happy, "alternative Christians" are just focussed on warm, fuzzy feelings and our faith isn't grounded on anything because we don't keep all of the Big 10 and have the "truths" of EGW. They have no idea what the true Gospel message is and have no understanding of grace. It's SO FRUSTRATING!!! | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 868 Registered: 11-2005 |
Raven, that is a wonderful quote! Thank you so much for your valuable insights. Isn't this a great forum! Gilbert | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1565 Registered: 9-2006 |
I heard a friend of mine this morning (not Adventist) mentioning to another friend of mine (Adventist) about how he was always hearing “God” mentioned but hardly ever Jesus and he was becoming concerned about that. I just sort of sat there and smiled, what surprised me was the answer the Adventist friend gave back, he said yes he knew it was missing and he knew it was Jesus who will save by his blood, of course he said “will” not does, but I feel the man is making headway by the confession he made. I have acquainted my evangelic friend of Adventism somewhat and I can tell he has begun to dig, I think this is going to be more interesting as the time goes by. I am praying that this friend will be my help amongst them (Adventist). River P.S. I am getting a bad cold or something, so I might not post much for awhile. Feel like crap again, up spiritually though. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4359 Registered: 3-2004 |
River, I will add your friend to my prayer list with you as you talk to your adventist friends. Our awesome God is with you and your friend. Diana | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1567 Registered: 9-2006 |
Thank you so much Dianna. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6915 Registered: 12-2003 |
Praying for you, River. Raven, that text is wonderful. I mentioned it to my MIL one time in a conversation as proof that Jesus was all we need, and she reminded me that for Paul, that text was "present truth". For us, "present truth" includes more. Doesn't that beat all? They claim everything they believe is from the Bible--yet the Bible was only present truth for its authors. Something about this just doesn't add up... Colleen (Message edited by Colleentinker on October 01, 2007) | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 485 Registered: 12-2004 |
Yes Colleen, Two of my favorite excuses.....present truth, and progressive revelation. Just like Jesus ate fish and drank wine....what could we expect, he didn't have the "health message". Sighing.... | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 236 Registered: 5-2007 |
Randy, the fish and wine thing is funny! Funny how the Savior put NO emphasis on a health message. I bet he ate sheep meat too. River, quit breathing on that keyboard. We don't want your cold!  | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 237 Registered: 5-2007 |
Randy, the JW's use both those terms: present truth and progressive revelation. Very convenient when they need to start rowing the other direction for a while! Could be it's a sign of a cult. Ima starting to lose faith in this here sda system. |
