| Author | Message | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 121 Registered: 7-2007 |
I know all of us that are here have had a history with adventism, but I notice that the majority that post here are now christians. Are there any who are from another religion now or have became atheist, or agnostic. What I'm asking is this site for former adventist who are christian now or is it formers in general? Cause right now I'm watching doug batchelor attacking folks that believe in grace alone led by the Spirit gospel and how they're from babylon, but then when I come here the formers or grace based christians attack the legalist and in my mind I'm asking myself what makes either group any different? and doesn't the bible say we're saved by grace alone through what Jesus Christ did for us, but then it says to keep His commandments. Lately I haven't been coming around that much, because I have so many questions in my head lately. It's just hard to come out of a cult and realize that you were in one all of your life and its honestly hard for me to get into another religion right now when I have that concern in the back of my mind about "how do I know if this one's true" they all claim they're led by God and have the truth. If the Bible is true, why are there so many interpretations and different religions, sects and beliefs? Another thing is certain things seem to contradict in the Bible. Notice I used the word seem, because no one knows for sure the absolute truth because we all have beliefs. No one knows for sure if it is true, after all religion is based on faith and not on facts. I'm probably coming off as agnostic to some of you. I don't know. I 'm not thinking about labels right now, just in my own personal space of what's true and what's not. I'm sure some of you have experienced this after coming out of adventism. Just wondering. (Message edited by luzisbornagain on September 22, 2007) | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 345 Registered: 11-2005 |
Hi Luzisbornagain, I think several of us have felt as you felt. You're right, with our backgrounds of coming from a denomination that decieved, it's difficult to know what to trust. So praise God for the fact that we don't have to know what, but Who. I know that comes off as sounding really cliche, but there is so much truth to that. God's Word never emphasizes following a belief system, but rather emphasizes following God. And yes, you're right, it does take faith. But as I've found in my own experience (I was agnostic before), it really takes "faith" to believe in anything, even if that anything means nothing. You know what I mean? And here's the amazing part, when I choose to follow IN FAITH to believe in God as my Lord and Savior (in spite of what my head likes to tell me), God begins to prove Himself through FACTS to me. Facts: I have a peace I have never experienced in my entire life. I have a joy I have never experienced in my entire life. I have hope that I have never experienced in my entire life. So, what starts out as a step of faith, God confirms Himself to us by bringing out the FACTS that only He can bring. He is Truth, and He will teach you what truth is. In regards to "getting into another religion", don't worry about that. That comes. God will lead you, in His time. We don't have to worry about passing a theology test. If we have claimed His lordship in our lives, we have already "passed the test". With Him as our Lord, He will lead us to His truth. We can trust Him in that. I think about where I am now, and my beliefs, and I have to chuckle. I would have NEVER chosen this "belief system" for myself. I mean a life of submission? Ha! That's so not me. The Adventist check-list is much more geared towards my personality type. But being led by the Spirit, rather than the Law (or denomination...) is surprisingly so much better  ! Praise God. Praying for you, Luzisbornagain. Grace | ||
| Robby Registered user Username: Robby Post Number: 15 Registered: 2-2006 |
Luzisbornagain, I have faced many of the same questions that you address. I came out of Adventism and became an atheist, or at least an agnostic. I just ran away from the whole God scene. In the past couple or years I have returned to Christianity, mostly because of a patient wife (Catholic, I should mention), and we have found a church home that emphasizes grace (not Catholic). But I do keep bumping my head into some difficult and complex questions. For example, how does a good and just God reconcile the fact that many will never hear the story of the cross. And if I am to live by grace alone am I not judged in any way for my behavior? And if I am judged for my thoughts, I will surly go to hell, for I lust and hate and all of that. And to what extent does God really interact with us? I just don't know. But as I study the whole EGW thing, I do realize that the deception has been a very cleaver one. The “Exposing Adventism” threads by Jorgfe have been very good and enlightening. Not to mention elenwhite.org. Many days I wake up and shake off the doubts and questions, and say to myself that for this day, I choose to simply believe and have faith. Then I see a child, or examine a leaf, or see the starry heavens, and I know that there is a power far greater than our own. And my very simple faith is re-confirmed. If you have an extra 30 minutes, watch the video called "The Anchor Of Hope". Louis' emphasis on the cross is amazing. http://www.northpoint.org/messages My best wishes to you in your walk, Rob | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 232 Registered: 10-2006 |
Rob, You wouldn't happen to live in California would you? Did you go to Enterprise Academy? Steve Norris | ||
| Robby Registered user Username: Robby Post Number: 16 Registered: 2-2006 |
No Steve, I'm on the east coast. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6851 Registered: 12-2003  |
Dear Luz, Your questions are questions all of us have had. Grace's post above said so well what I have also discovered, God asks us to believe in Him, and HE confirms Himself to us. Don't worry about what church is "correct". Right now you have to learn to trust in Jesus and praise Him. Robby, I've struggled with that question, too, about some people never hearing about the cross. Romans 1 and 2 have given me great insight into that dilemma. God gives every human that ever lives a revelation of Himself through what has been made, and, as Romans 1:18-20 says, all men are without excuse. God reveals Himself to each person. I've begun to realize that He isn't limited by whether or not people actually have personal access to Scriptures; Jesus has even appeared to Muslims, as in the case of a 16-year-old girl I read about who knew Jesus was a prophet in the Koran, and she prayed to him, asking him to help her. Jesus appeared to her in a vision, and the girl subsequently became a Christian. As an Adventist I had no concept of the fact that God didn't depend on us. He is able to reveal Himself, to awaken us to Him—quite apart from our limited knowledge or understanding. As far as living by grace and good behavior, etc., Romans 6 through 8 describes the reality that we live in mortal, sinful flesh, and that when we are born again (our spirits brought to life by the Holy Spirit indwelling us when we accept Jesus' sacrifice in our place for our sins), we now have a living spirit that has the ability—for the first time—actually to freely choose. Before we're born again, we're dead in sin (Eph 2:1-3) and in the domain of darkness (Col 1:13). When we're made alive, we finally have the ability to respond to Jesus. Now, as Romans 8 describes, we still experience the temptations and desires of our sinful world and mortal flesh. But now, we finally have the option of not being mastered by them. We can choose to live by the Spirit, to submit our temptations to the Lord Jesus, to yield to Him instead of just struggling with temptation. God asks us to trust Him. His concern for us is not so much that we do the right things but that we yield to Him. For example, if someone offends me and I am justifiably hurt or angered, I now have the option either to respond with defensiveness (which may actually be a justifiable response) and escalate into an argument, or I have the option to yield the situation to the Lord Jesus and allow His love to strengthen me and reassure my heart, making it possible for me to react to the one who offended me with more objectivity. The issue is not primarily behavior. The issue is submission. Will I submit my desires, my emotions and responses to the Holy Spirit, or will I rationalize my own impulses? Behavior is affected by submission, but it is not the actual behaviors that God is trying to change. It is our hearts. He wants us to trust Him, to give Him the things that drive us. As we submit our hearts to Him, He changes us. Luz and Robby, God is real, and He reveals Himself to us as we desire to know Him. When we go to His Word, submitting our minds and hearts to Him and asking Him to teach us, He reveals Himself. We can trust Him. When He saves us, nothing can take us out of His hands (John 10:27-30). The point, once we are saved, is to grow in trust and submission, allowing Him to heal and change us. Beliefs and doctrines begin to emerge as we get to know Jesus. The point of studying the Bible is not primarily to get doctrines. The point is to learn to know Jesus. As we discover who He really is, the doctrines flow from that. Seek Him—He never fails. Colleen | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 122 Registered: 7-2007 |
thanks you guys for your responses. | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 195 Registered: 5-2007 |
I have heard or read somewhere that most Christians in muslim countries know about Jesus through visions! Wow huh?
You have to remember that God will always make the exact, perfect, just judgement for each person. You would not want it any other way would you? And Luz, stop watching that trash called Doug Batchelor unless you are good at spotting error and deception. My wife cannot even read egw for error detection without being sucked into it. Therefore she keep away from it. | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 347 Registered: 11-2005 |
Absolutely, Larry! I've read that too! Wow, indeed... Just this week, I heard a missionary give his testimony of his experience in Turkey (I think it was Turkey). He said a Muslim man had been experiencing "unrest" in his soul (my guess was he was experiencing that cognitive dissonance we've all felt!) and prayed to Allah that truth would be revealed to him. That night, he had a profound dream where a man approached him and gave him an address saying, "Go here, and you will discover truth." So, when the man woke up, he immediately wrote down the address and set out to find out where the address would take him. The address took him to this missionary's house. The Muslim man gave the piece of paper to the missionary and told him about his dream. It just happened to be that the missionary was watching the "Jesus" video in the background. There came up a scene where Jesus walked across the screen, and the man saw it and cried out "That was the man in my dream!" He gave his heart to the Lord that day. God does reach us where we are. Grace | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 123 Registered: 7-2007 |
oh trust me the error is obvious in my eyes. I wasn't watching it my roommate was and I was just getting frustrated hearing him like he's mister know it all basically talking trash about the rest of christendom who believe in faith based salvation alone. | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 197 Registered: 5-2007 |
Luz, you haven't seen it all till you've watched Ken Cox sneer about "cheap grace". I have seen it in the past and now it gives me creepy feelings about whose servant he really is. Please keep those hand held personal zappers away from the computer chip in that 3abn box, as it could really screw it up, to the point of not ever working again! hee hee (I probably shouldn't have said that)
sda's always run right to "fruits of the spirit" and will quote to you "peace, love, joy". But even the mormons can be really nice to you, and the JW's would love it if you would accept their peace, love, & joy. At some point, truth has got to be the criteria, pure and simple. I think truth has a right to attack error. Did Elijah attack the false Baal prophets verbally at first, then physically unto death? Yes. Did Paul tell the Galations that if they preached a different gospel, they'd be condemned? yes. It is hard to read Galations 1:8 and see any sugar coating. Error never has a right to attack truth. Those who discover they have been held in a false system are obligated to help prevent others from making that mistake, if at all possible. If sda's go against the Bible, they are wrong. If they mis-use the Bible, they are wrong. Revelation talks about people who keep His commandments, and the word in greek is entoles. 1 John 3:23 (same author!) tells you what the commands (same greek entoles) are: to believe in Him, and love one another. Any time the Jewish law was mentioned in the New testament, the greek word used was nomos. sda's are famous for getting the two mixed up. They really cannot help themselves, as they have this internal need to put themselves and others under the same bondage that Israel had. Hardly the spirit of "the truth will set you free" !! Here are some scriptures that may help sooth the confusion sda's inflict: Malachi 4:4 "Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel. Ps 147:19-20 He has revealed his word to Jacob, his laws and decrees to Israel. He has done this for no other nation; they do not know his laws. Praise the LORD. Deuteronomy 5:3 It was not with our fathers that the LORD made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. Deuteronomy 5:15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day. Romans 3:21,22 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. Anybody can correct me if any of this is wrong. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1503 Registered: 9-2006  |
Larry says:"sda's always run right to "fruits of the spirit" and will quote to you "peace, love, joy". Anybody can quote it, it is another thing all together to possess it. The only fruit they shed is stinkin rotten fruit. I can smell it now, they oughta call Mike Rowe on dirty jobs. River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4330 Registered: 3-2004  |
The winter after I left the SDA church I was greeting people as they entered the church I attend. A lovely looking lady in a gorgeous yellow dress walked in and I greeted her and told her her dress was pretty. We started talking and she told me she had been raised Muslim. I asked her how she found out about Christianity. She answered that God had talked to her in a dream. Her friends came by at that time and I have not seen her since then. Diana | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 208 Registered: 5-2007 |
Diana, your story gave me good shivers! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4332 Registered: 3-2004 |
It was exciting talking to her. God let me meet her for a reason and I have not figured that one out yet. Someday?? This just goes to show me that we do have an awesome God. Diana |
