| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 818 Registered: 11-2005 |
From what Ellen White says that she was "shown" we learn: 1. the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord 2. it should not be altered 3. the figures were as He wanted them 4. His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures 5. (He did this) so that none could see it, until His hand was removed 6. God was in the proclamation of the time in 1843 7. It was His design to arouse the people and bring them to a testing point, where they should decide for or against the truth. 8. It had been God's purpose to conceal the future and to bring His people to a point of decision. 9. Without the preaching of definite time for the coming of Christ, the work designed of God would not have been accomplished. 10. It was necessary that the people be brought to seek earnestly for a present preparation. 11. The passing of the definite time had tested and proved them, and very many were weighed in the balance and found wanting. 12. God sent His angel to move upon the heart of a farmer who had not believed the Bible, to lead him to search the prophecies. 13. Angels of God repeatedly visited that chosen one, to guide his mind and open to his understanding prophecies which had ever been dark to God's people. 14. The commencement of the chain of truth was given to him 15. he was led on to search for link after link 16. He saw there a perfect chain of truth. 17. He saw that one portion of Scripture explains another 18. when one passage was closed to his understanding, he found in another part of the Word that which explained it 19. God called him to leave his farm, as He called Elisha to leave his oxen and the field of his labor to follow Elijah. 20. Angels of God accompanied William Miller in his mission. 21. He was firm and undaunted, fearlessly proclaiming the message committed to his trust 22. opposed by professed Christians and the world 23. buffeted by Satan and his angels 24. he ceased not to preach the everlasting gospel Former Seventh-day Adventist pastor, Dale Ratzlaff covers this, a well as William Miller's "proofs", in much greater detail in his book, Cultic Doctrine of Seventh-day Adventists. http://www.ratzlaf.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1001718585 Gilbert Jorgensen It has been 162 Years, 10 Months, and 27 Days since October 22, 1844 | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 114 Registered: 6-2007 |
This may sound harsh, but when I read where she claimed that God intentionally presented false information to his people as a test that was it for me. The thought of stepping foot into a SDA church literally made me want to vomit. Laurie | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2153 Registered: 10-2004  |
Wow, Gilbert, thanks for posting those quotes. So, what she is saying is that those who quit believing "god's" lie after "god" had been proven to be a liar, were weighed in the balance and found wanting and "god" refused to save them. And people think that this is the same holy, righteous God that we Christians worship?!?! I want nothing to do with the SDA lying "god." How can anyone call Adventism a "Christian" church?! They clearly do NOT have the same God as Christianity! Jeremy | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 819 Registered: 11-2005 |
Like Randy says, Ellen's writings speak for themselves! Gilbert Jorgensen It has been 162 Years, 10 Months, and 27 Days since October 22, 1844 | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1484 Registered: 9-2006  |
Jeremy, Amen. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6819 Registered: 12-2003  |
Amen from me, too. That heinous claim that God "held his hand" over Miller's mistake is what finally woke me up. I remember reading that passage in Dale's Cultic Doctrine and realizing with an almost physical reaction that Ellen wasn't just misguided or "not a prophet". She accused God of lying because the "ends justified the means". How dare she??? I realized then that she was a false prophet. Absolutely nothing she said was good or "devotional" or worthy of being heeded. No more "well, she might be right..." The parts of her writings that sound "good" cannot be lauded or heeded. They are, as someone (I can't remember who) has said, the sugar she used to get the unsuspecting to swallow the poison. And even if some argue that she "didn't know what she was doing", satan did know. He has created an elegant deception. Ellen is a false prophet. There is no way to excuse her. Colleen | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 181 Registered: 5-2007 |
I find the very beginning nucleus of the sda movement (as Gilbert has outlined) the best place to lay the ax. It is easily shown that she calls God a dealer in deception and that deception a wonderful truth. If you are trying to disprove adventism in 2007 terms, it can get pretty complicated if you pick the right topic. And I never leave it unsaid that there was first a deception before there was a disappointment. What else would you call 1843? Wrong time and wrong event! Neither happened. Ditto for 1844. Sheer deception. It does not suddenly become truth. I am sure that you could plug in the term "montanist" in the above quotes, and they would read about the same. The montanists were very early timesetters whose movement lasted around 200 years over 1800 years ago. Still, they were purveyors of deception. Not one single timesetting movement has ever told the truth. Why would Miller be the first? sheesh! Here's a link to more timesetters | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1489 Registered: 9-2006 |
Well, I really like your saying Larry, "there was first a deception before there was a disappointment." And yes, the "very beginning nucleus" goes right back to the time when they refused to believe what the words says "no man knows the day nor the hour" The great disappointment hasn't ceased either, they look to the Bible to try to support Adventism and they are disappointed, for assurance and they are disappointed,to get rid of the cognitive dissonance and they are disappointed, to unanswered questions and they are disappointed, try for perfection and they are disappointed. Living in deception of that magnitude is just one big disappointment. River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4315 Registered: 3-2004  |
That is why we need to pray for all SDAs. Remember our prayer circle every Friday at sundown and Saturday at 1 PM, PT. We, who are no longer under that deception, can rejoice and be free to worship God without that cognitive dissonance. Diana | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 824 Registered: 11-2005 |
Larry said: You are absolutely right. I find debating current theological points with SDA's to be very frustrating, because they are in such deep denial. Since the Seventh-day Adventist Church tries to avoid acquainting them with its beginneings they have no defense for that. All of the falsehood and deception in the beginning is mind-boggling. Gilbert Jorgensen It has been 162 Years, 10 Months, and 28 Days since October 22, 1844 | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6826 Registered: 12-2003 |
So true. Colleen | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1057 Registered: 10-2002  |
Very true, everyone! Just go straight to the foundation. Speak the gospel. And pray, pray, pray first! Larry, that link on timesetters throughout history is amazing! It is so incredible to see it and see the common patterns of behavior from timesetters and how SDA fits right in. The same denial of being wrong, the same urge to continue instead of repent, the same cultic fringe relation to the rest of Christianity, and the same fruit of having some kinds of extreme teachings. |
