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Loneviking
Registered user
Username: Loneviking
Post Number: 586
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 1:06 am: |     |
Just to clarify here folks. SDA's aren't the only ones to hold to baptismal regeneration--if that's what it truly is. It seems to me there is a difference between saying that baptism is required for the new birth (Jesus claimed that in Mark); for the entrance into the church universal; as a symbol of the salvation (1 Peter)acquired through the death/resurrection of Christ; and the washing of regeneration(titus); and for the washing away of sins (Paul, in Acts)-
From 'regeneration' which is when one actually acquires the new nature and is placed into Christ. Some churches teach that BOTH occur at Baptism, others say that regeneration can take place EITHER before or after baptism.
Some of the Baptists teach as the SDA's, the Church of Christ is also quite close to the SDA position.
I think the question is 'what is Biblical'? I hold to the SDA/Baptist/CofC position. Of the many baptisms recorded in Acts, not one was ever delayed. The record always says 'immedietly', or 'straightaway'. You also have a lot of texts to explain away to get to a 'faith only' position... |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 1464
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 7:48 am: | |
Of course I can’t answer Gilberts question of whether or not one should be re-baptized after Adventism, I really think it is a matter of your own heart as to whether you feel like you would like to be re-baptized or not.
We have discussed this before on here, some have gotten re-baptized and some have not.
My opinion though is if a person feels like they want to be re-baptized then let them be re-baptized, but there again, that’s just my own opinion.
To try to keep the tread on subject your original question was this.
What is the Biblical meaning of baptism?
In theological terms I really cannot give a good answer to this question without doing a good bit of Bible study on the subject.
I will give my heart on it though; I can do that with a clear conscience.
I do not believe in baptismal regeneration. Period.
What I believe in my heart that it is, is that it is part of your confession of Jesus, or your faith, it represents that I have been buried with him and resurrected with him.
In other words it is confession of the finished work of our faith, or in other words, his finished work, he will finish the work that he has started.
We walk by faith and not by sight.
There is other ways to put it I guess, maybe simply put, we confess him, not only his death and resurrection and finished work in us by faith (assurance) but because he lives, we live. We were once dead, but now we live and glory in his resurrection and his promise.
Primarily why I see baptism this way is that surely re-birth must come first, being born of the Spirit must proceed baptism, our confession of faith.
Again John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
With out spiritual rebirth first, I just don’t see how we can confess anything, his death and resurrection, our faith or anything else, simply because flesh cannot even comprehend these things, now you folks may see it different and I won’t fault you.
But I just don’t see how, without that being born again first, that baptism can mean more than a hill of beans, just going on memory Loneviking, I can’t remember any of them not confessing Jesus first and believing the disciples preaching, delayed or not delayed.
If one is spiritually dead before baptism he is going to be spiritually dead after baptism, you just go down dry and come up all wet.
That is the link between the difference between Adventist baptism with no life and baptism following new life although that is not to say there is not a live one in the crowd when Adventist baptize and if there is a live one in the crowd it won’t matter a hill of beans whether the one that dunks you is dead or alive, God can use him to get the job done and further it won’t matter a hill of beans whether the rest are alive or dead as far as the live one is concerned. The dead ones will go in dead and come up wet, the live ones will go in live and come up wet. Both will come up wet.
Basically though, I think the premise the Adventist go on is largely just flesh talking to flesh and the whole thing is deader than a doornail, they dunk unregenerated individuals at large and then report to the GC how many and the GC stands around patting themselves on the back, vote themselves a raise in pay and to talk to these same one’s, both the baptized and the GC leaders about the things of the Spirit, why I would have more luck trying to bring my dead dog back to life.
Now I talk to you folk about the things of the Spirit of God and you at least understand the spirit of what I am saying for the most part, I speak to you as brothers and sisters in Christ and whether we agree theologically or not, there is a kinship of that Spirit, we go get in a snit and go off to arguing with each other about some point and still end up right back loving each other, the argument long forgotten.
But I am here to tell you, I do not have that same kinship of Spirit with my Adventist acquaintances, its like talking to a fence post.
I am just being honest of heart with you. As a person who has been made alive in Christ, born again, regenerated in new birth, rejoicing in the salvation HE has GIVEN me and you, I can have no real kinship with the world, the unsaved or demonically deceptive activity, the saved is my brother and my sister and it is to with those I can have real fellowship and kinship of Spirit.
That is what Colleen was talking about when she talked about the girl who said she thought “That was fun” the girl was probably dead when she went in and dead when she came out.
While at the same time Colleen was taking her baptism seriously and it was more than just getting wet.
Now, having said that we have the problem of when we are reborn and many of us just does not know exactly at what time this took place, I know that I cannot tell you.
But then look at the scripture and Jesus remark right below the scripture I just quoted, John 3:8 The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know whence it comes or whither it goes; so it is with every one who is born of the Spirit."
To my mind that pretty much answers it right there, I heard the sound of the wind (God turned me toward home that faithful Friday night, he called to my spirit and my spirit answered even if the flesh was dog drunk, but he wasn’t calling the flesh that evening, he was calling Spirit to spirit.
So, to get back to the crux of the situation, having once believed, then baptism.
So to the ones that do believe in baptismal regeneration, technically I just cannot see how water in the form of it can wash away sin, the same water that is slated to melt away with fervent heat, Peter II 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
The day I was baptized the change had already taken place, the Holy Spirit had already come in, how can anything be added other than following with obedience and confession of my faith.
By saying “baptismal regeneration” what you are saying to me is that the Holy Spirit is not enough, it’s the Holy Spirit plus something (water in this case) so is baptism just a matter of obedience? I have to think so, it is a command of obedience. Do I think salvation depends on it? Obviously not since spiritual rebirth surely proceeds it.
So I guess I have boiled it out to my answer, once spiritual rebirth has taken place, it is just my opinion that one should follow in obedience and be baptized and do it as unto the Lord, don’t matter how many times you’ve been dunked before, it you weren’t saved before when you were baptized, then obedience should follow in baptism.
If I said to an employee “Go rake the yard” and he prunes the roses instead he has not been obedient. Until he rakes the yard he stands in disobedience,
simple as that unless my “Yard” is the Sahara desert.
If the proponents of baptismal regeneration are correct then I wasn’t saved until a year and a half after God’s Spirit came in and changed me from what I was before and that just seems a little bit on the ridicules side, in fact its downright laughable. A swimming pool saved me! I tell you that is hilarious. 
How did you get saved River? Well, a swimmin pool is what gotter done!! 
You guys and gals pardon me for running on, but by writing about these things it sometimes brings clarity to me, I know it don’t do you any good, but if you allow for it, it does help me to solidify things I have to deal with in other places. Namely, real live Adventist.
So I guess the Biblical meaning of baptism is “Obedience”, I reserve the right to change my mind. Maybe Mark will come along Monday and do that very thing.
River |
Loneviking
Registered user
Username: Loneviking
Post Number: 587
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 9:12 am: | |
Forgive me for doing a 'cut and paste' reply River!!
River wrote:
But then look at the scripture and Jesus remark right below the scripture I just quoted, John 3:8 The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know whence it comes or whither it goes; so it is with every one who is born of the Spirit."
To my mind that pretty much answers it right there, I heard the sound of the wind (God turned me toward home that faithful Friday night, he called to my spirit and my spirit answered even if the flesh was dog drunk, but he wasn’t calling the flesh that evening, he was calling Spirit to spirit.
So, to get back to the crux of the situation, having once believed, then baptism.
-----------------------------------------------
O.K., I'm with you so far, but why didn't you read and quote John 3:5?:
'Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of God.'
Or Mark 16:16,
'He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved..'
River then wrote:
So to the ones that do believe in baptismal regeneration, technically I just cannot see how water in the form of it can wash away sin, the same water that is slated to melt away with fervent heat, Peter II 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
The day I was baptized the change had already taken place, the Holy Spirit had already come in, how can anything be added other than following with obedience and confession of my faith.
By saying “baptismal regeneration” what you are saying to me is that the Holy Spirit is not enough, it’s the Holy Spirit plus something (water in this case) so is baptism just a matter of obedience? I have to think so, it is a command of obedience. Do I think salvation depends on it? Obviously not since spiritual rebirth surely proceeds it.
--------------------------------------
So then baptism is merely following a command? Devoid of any real meaning? Baptism is something that doesn't accomplish anything except to get you wet? I've just quoted two texts that say otherwise. Consider some others:
In Acts 2:38, Peter replies to the Jews in Jerusalem who had just asked 'what must we do to be saved'? and replies:
'Repent and be baptized, every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Here, baptism wipes away your sins and is how one receives the gift of the Holy Spirit. This is in agreement with Titus 3:5 which says:
'Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost.
That was written by Paul, this is Peter in 1 Peter 3:20,21
'which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the are was pareparing, wherein few, that is, eight sould were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us..'
River, I don't doubt that what actually saves us is Christs' death on the cross. But how do you accept that death and enter into the New Covenant? In the days of the old covenant, you and I would have to be circumcised (ouch!). The New Covenant parallel is baptism through which 'we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was rasied up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk by newness of life'. Romans 6:4
But again, this comes by baptism. Without the water, you don't have much. Yes, I agree that the confession of faith is one half of the puzzle and necessary for baptism to do anything. But baptism is the other half, it is required and it is more than just a public confession of faith---which, btw, is never claimed as a reason for Baptism in the Bible.
So, that's how I see it. I think this whole mess of baptism being given short shrift can be laid at the feet of Calvinism. With the teaching of Calvinism that man can't respond to God without God working in him, then the new birth has fully occured and why be in a hurry to baptize? I'm about a 1 point TULIP Calvinist and disagree emphatically with many aspects of this system of belief. |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 1465
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 1:40 pm: | |
Its perfectly ok to cut and paste my friend, and the reason I didn’t quote the scripture ” Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of God.' Was not for reasons of proof texting what I was trying to say, I have read those same scripture you quoted and am not in denial of them, I have puzzled over them for many years, I still cannot understand how water can take away sin, I don’t deny the scripture I just don’t understand them.
Now if it is a command, which I think it is, then one is in disobedience if he refuses or delays baptism purposely and how can we be saved and be disobedient to his command?
I didn’t say baptism was an option, If someone can clarify the scripture so that I could understand I am prepared to change.
Now Loneviking there is something that I left out, while it is true it was a year and a half approximately after the Lord reached down for me till I was baptized, it is also true that I was baptized at about 11 years old too and my conscience didn’t bother me about baptism, when our church decided they were going to hold a baptism for one’s that were just saved, I followed in re-baptism in my love for Jesus and wanting to be sure I fulfilled his command, not for salvation, but because I loved him and his Word.
I don’t want to oversimplify baptism, I take it seriously, do I believe water can wash away sin? No, but I believe repentance and obedience is not an option.
It is just that if baptism is the element that saves, I just don’t understand how it can be. In fact I cannot understand any purpose for baptism accept one of obedience, I am prepared to change if I can receive better light than what God has given me.
Now I still have this question in my mind, Is it the water element that’s effects the issue or the command element that effects the issue.
If it is the water element that effects the issue then the death bed confession is out the door.
In my consideration of these scripture you quoted, over the years I have tried to reason it out. I always end back up with the thief on the cross where it is written that Jesus said plainly that the repentant thief would be with him in paradise that day.
To say that water, H2o itself is an effective element, that opens up still more questions than the scripture I have had to put aside in my tension files, the ones you mentioned.
See, to my mind if baptism is an element of our salvation and regeneration then my salvation was not complete until I played an active role in saving myself by wading into that pool, God didn’t submit to that water I did it on my own, although out of love for my Lord, it was my act.
So to my rather admitted messed up thinking, if baptismal regeneration is true, then God started my salvation and I finished it, I guess maybe that Billy’s 1% do you think?
If anyone can jump in here and help my understanding, please do, I am ready willing and able to change, but until I get better understanding I have to think that the actual water element has no effect accept to get you wet.
By the same token I don’t wish to minimize the importance of baptism either.
I agree it is more than a public confession of faith, I said that is part of it, it takes faith to walk out into water and get wet when you are perfectly dry and comfortable.
You know Lone, I do intend to study and pray about this until I have a better answer though.
River |
Blessed
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Username: Blessed
Post Number: 98
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 2:57 pm: | |
For me, I was baptized in the Adventist church at the age of 10 because there was lots of pressure for me to do so. I did not know the Lord personally but knew of Him and of course at that time thought that I was joining the "remnant church". As I have shared before on this forum I ended up in public school for my second year in grade 9 (God can use failure to bring about His purpose!!) and through the influence of a wonderful born-again friend, studing the scriptures and realizing that Adventism was wrong and leaving it, I started attending a Baptist church and committed my life to Christ and became a born-again Christian. I then had to address the issue of baptism - I had been immersed in the Adventist church so did I need to do it again? After some serious studying of scripture and praying I realized that my first baptism was null and void because baptism is an "outward experience of an inward confession" and the only confession that had taken place was joining a church and accepting it's fundamentals. I was baptized again in the church that I made my committment to Jesus in and it was wonderful. Finally I was showing by an outward expression (baptism) that I had in fact received the beautiful gift of grace offered to me at the cross. The two experiences were so very different and I am so glad that I was baptized after my committment to Jesus.
For each of us this is a personal decision and for me it was clear as to what I should do.
Blessed |
River
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Username: River
Post Number: 1466
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 4:05 pm: | |
Here is another quote from our brother Gilbert that he made on another thread, and I believe he is absolutely correct.
Quote: Blessed, the reason why Seventh-day Adventists "think" that the gospel is being preached at their church is because they have never heard the real Gospel. The "old" heart is incapable of understanding the New Covenant Gospel. That is why the whole focus of salvation is on "believing", eg John 3:16, Hebrews 3-4. Until they believe, and accept the premise of the New Covenant, it is my opinion that they never will understand the Gospel. (end of quote)
The “Old” heart is incapable of understanding the new covenant gospel. Baptism is a part of the new covenant gospel.
It would be impossible or at least futile to wash away the sins of an unrepentant person and leave them with an “old” heart, therefore we must receive that new heart before baptism.
When an unrepentant person in the state of unregenerate condition is baptized, it would count for no more that me taking a bath every morning.
Only a new heart (spirit) can become obedient to God whether the baptism element is water element or obedience element and the unregenerate person cannot understand the gospel nor can take part in the gospel in any manner. True baptism is part of the gospel, the sacraments are another.
I think that this is what I have been trying to get hold of and say. I just go stumbling around and rambling on trying to get of the root of it.
I think we can extract from Gilberts statement the true concept of the Bible meaning of baptism.
This is not answer to your post blessed, but a continuation of my thoughts on baptism, more especially where it comes to what I think most Adventist baptisms consist of.
I think you can gather from this post though that I think you were absolutely right in following up with a second baptism in your case as well as mine.
River |
Snowboardingmom
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Username: Snowboardingmom
Post Number: 338
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 4:09 pm: | |
Being a Christ follower isn't just about having an experience in truth (accepting Jesus as my personal Savior), but actually living out that truth (being obedient to His Word and obeying His command to be baptized). For me, baptism isn't an issue of whether it's regenerative, a public confession of faith, a necessity for salvation, etc. The important thing about baptism to me is it represents living a submitted life. Living a life of submission means that Jesus is my Lord, and I choose to commit my life to Him to do His will. I live for Him. His will, as clearly stated in His word, is to be baptized.
I have studied quite a bit with Church of Christ members, and don't agree with their view that baptism is a requirement for salvation. (By the way, their argument for the thief on the cross is that he died under the old covenant because Jesus had not died and resurrected yet). But, I have changed my position of baptism slightly in that I think it is more than just a public confession of faith. It IS a public confession of faith, but it's also an act of commitment to living out a submitted life to Jesus and declaring His FULL lordship over me.
I was rebaptized. I don't think it's necessary for every former. It's obviously a very personal issue, and one that should be prayerfully handled. But I have found in my life (not just with the issue of baptism, but lots of other issues), that if I'm asking myself "should I?" or "shouldn't I?" it is usually because the Holy Spirit has already been dealing with my heart and convicting me.
Grace |
Laurie
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Username: Laurie
Post Number: 108
Registered: 6-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 5:59 pm: | |
Gilbert
Above you asked can anybody relate?
Yes yes yes... I relate.
Laurie |
Blessed
Registered user
Username: Blessed
Post Number: 99
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 7:05 pm: | |
For me, baptism had nothing to do with a church affiliation, it was totally showing the people that witnessed the baptism that I had chosen to accept Jesus as my Savior and Lord and was striving to live an obedient life. Have I succeeded - I obviously have good and bad days as I continue to strive to serve Him but next to my commitment to Christ that day was very significant as I shared my testimony and professed before the people of my new church that I was a Christ-follower and desired to declare my decision before my church family. I was just sharing with my husband after I posted last that my mom (who is SDA) my dad, sister and other family members refused to attend my baptism. Interestingly, I had dated a guy in high school prior to my conversion whose parents I became close to. They, and my aunt and uncle who were born-again Christians were the only guests that I had there that night. My sister made a commitment to the Lord a few years later and both my parents attended her baptism at my church. I could say more but I will leave it at that.
River, yes I had no other choice. The conviction was there that I needed to publicly declare my commitment to Jesus and I did. It was a beautiful service and I still have the bulletin from that service which I have saved. I am rambling but am remembering that my friend who led me to the Lord was there as well as my aunt (my mother's sister who had an impact on me growing up when I would question why she had a faith but was not Adventist). My aunt actually sang at my baptism and of course her sister (my mother) was not there. Once again the strongholds of Adventism.
Blessed |
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 4308
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 7:21 pm: | |
I just came home from a baptism at my church. The candidates, families and friends all gathered to celebrate and it was a celebration with singing and just enjoying the fact of the baptism. There was also punch, cookies and cake. Then we all went down stairs to where the baptismal pool is. A dear friend baptised her 14 yr old daughter. Fathers and mothers baptized their children. Brothers and sisters baptized each other. Pastor Bob baptized a friend's husband and his son in law and grand son. The 3 generations standing there together was a beautiful sight. Everything was so happy and joyous and one could feel the Holy Spirit there. I could not help but contrast it with the last baptisms I saw in the SDA church. I will leave it at that. This was truly a celebration. I thank God for it.
He is always so awesome.
Diana |
River
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Username: River
Post Number: 1467
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 8:01 pm: | |
Yes Dianna and Blessed, what a joyous occasion when we celebrate our new life in Christ via the element of baptism.
I remember very well my baptism that day even so many years ago. It may be the Lords command, but it was no trouble to fill, I felt like I got the best end of a command that was such a privilege and a joyous occasion. I love that sentence "In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.
River |
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6805
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 11:52 pm: | |
Grace, I actually agree with you; baptism is more than a public declaration; it is a sign of living a submitted life in the Lord Jesus.
Our son Roy told me that over the past year, he had been having the recurrent thought that he should be baptized. He resisted for quite some time, reasoning that he had been baptized as an Adventist. He said that over the past few weeks, the thought that he needed to be baptized became stronger and stronger, and he finally realized that he was rationalizing what God was asking of him. So he was baptized last week.
I've thought a lot about whether or not I should be rebaptized, and I've prayed about it. In a way I was drawn to be rebaptized, but I knew that God had specifically blessed me at my first baptism even though I was SDA. I also knew that my first baptism, in my rudimentary understanding, was a statement of my committing myself to Jesus. That was a conscious decision at the time.
As I prayed about the issue, I had the clear realization that for me, rebaptism would be a form of denial of God's clear affirmation of my desire to serve Him that He gave me at my baptism. As I said, it was rather like that miracle Jesus performed on the blind man that took two touches before he could really see. But my desire to live for Jesus—whatever that meant and whoever He really was—was actually real, and Jesus in His mercy revealed His presence to me at a time in my life when I was agonized with compulsions, fear of sinning and unremembered sins, and feelings of deep shame and unworthiness. Jesus gave me a reassurance of His love for me that day—and for me, rebaptism isn't necessary.
Yes, my life is completely new, and in many ways a rebaptism would feel like a statement of deepened commitment, but I'm aware that God is not asking me to be rebaptized. Instead, He's asking me to recognize that He chose me long before I knew what that actually meant. It's been humbling for me to realize that He really did save me in my sin (and ignorance) before I had any definite understanding of what He would actually ask of me. He even allowed me to wander in deception and fear and confusion and bad decisions for a few decades before finally yanking that veil off my heart.
But He reminds me that He had His hand on me from childhood, and I thank Him for that. He does convict us of the obedience of baptism. And a great many former Adventists do choose to be rebaptized because their first one wasn't at all about following Jesus.
Colleen |
River
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Username: River
Post Number: 1468
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 6:23 am: | |
I agree Colleen and Grace, its not about a one time experience, it is actually the first command to a fulfillment in a continuous life in Christ there after, and without that new life first it can have no real meaning.
Loneviking mentioned that in the early church it was done without delay and my reading of the early church indicates the same thing.
It is this 24 hour a day commitment that our lives can become more victorious, not just in defeating the flesh, but in finding ways to serve with the gifts of ministries of whatever skills God has given us.
If we can live out our baptism I am thinking we will find ourselves growing in our Christian walk.
As in Colleens case it is not required to have a full stature in understanding to be baptized, it is a first step in our learning to be obedient.
I have become pretty much determined in that obedience, although I confess to stumbling around in my efforts to do that very thing, I feel ill equipped when I look at certain others in their growth, nevertheless I am determined to follow in obedience and I do see a little growth here and there.
I do covet your prayers in this very thing.
River |
Jorgfe
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Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 808
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 9:21 am: | |
Another apsect that has not been mentioned is the teaching in Seventh-day Adventism that only people who are specially blessed by the Seventh-day Adventist Church (such as pastors) can baptize someone else. The rest of us mere mortals don't have the proper qualifications. It is amost like having a "Temple Recommend" in Mormonism.
That is a totally foreign concept (although one I was raised with as a Seventh-day Adventist) to what I encountered at Southeast Baptist where a Christian can baptize another person, and there is a total separation between baptism and church membership.
I find nothing Biblical about only ordained pastors being required for a baptism. I suspect that a Methodist pastor, for example, would not be allowed to baptize a Seventh-day Adventist in a Seventh-day Adventist church.
Seventh-day Adventism is so cultic!
What have been your experiences?
Gilbert Jorgensen
It has been 162 Years, 10 Months, and 26 Days since October 22, 1844 |
Leigh
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Username: Leigh
Post Number: 189
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 6:24 am: | |
Thanks, Colleen for your encouraging words. I also feel that the Lord is not calling me to be rebaptized either. It is so humbling to know as your said:
"--He really did save me in my sin (and ignorance) before I had any definite understanding of what He would actually ask of me.
--that He had His hand on me from childhood"
Leigh |
Leigh
Registered user
Username: Leigh
Post Number: 190
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 6:33 am: | |
Gilbert, I found this to be true at our church, also -- that church membership and baptism are totally seperate.
Several years ago I was amazed and touched when a friend of my daughter's was baptized by her father. This was the first time I'd ever seen anyone baptized outside the Adventist church.
On Sunday, Septemeber 9 my husband baptized our 2 daughters at an outdoor evening prayer meeting in the backyard pool at the house of one our members. What a beautiful day!! |
Philharris
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Username: Philharris
Post Number: 186
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 6:58 am: | |
Some thoughts concerning being rebaptized and my own personal salvation:
When I was six years old, my grandmother led me to the Lord, Jesus Christ. What my Savior did at that point did not depend on any type of action on my part and certainly did not hinge on me having a full understanding of the doctrinal issues surrounding that event in my life. Understanding came many years later as I grew to become an "adult" Christian.
When I was twelve years old, I was baptized by an SDA minister and, of course, joined the SDA church. No matter how many flaws there were surrounding this baptism, it was in obedience to the will of God and, deep down, I knew it did not equate with salvation. And, I did not understand why joining the church or keeping the Sabbath, had anything to do with my salvation. At the time, I assumed I was only a child and would gain an explanation as I grew older. In a few years I gave up on ever becoming perfect and assumed I was destined for hell, so why not enjoy the "World's pleasures" with what little time I had to live on this earth.
Later, when I did return to the Lord and was ready to join an evangelical church, I decided to be rebaptized as a public declaration of my new found faith in the Savior and that I was ready to call him Lord and Master. It was only as I gained an understanding of Biblical doctrines that I realized I had been safe in the arms of Jesus Christ since a small child. When I rebelled against the SDA church, he had never left me. In his own timing, he called me into his true fellowship.
Phil |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 822
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 6:45 pm: | |
Leigh, that is beautiful! What a precious experience. Adventism is so hollow by comparison.
Gilbert Jorgensen
It has been 162 Years, 10 Months, and 27 Days since October 22, 1844 |
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