| Author |
Message |
Susans
Registered user
Username: Susans
Post Number: 485
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 9:12 pm: |     |
The only reason I believe they think it is a mistake is that many people are now pointing to an Adventist bible as more proof they are a cult like the JW's and Mormons who have their own bible too.
They won't renounce it because it supports unbiblical doctrine and because it's even read now from the pulpit is an easier way to indoctrinate EGW beliefs, as evidenced by the Clear Word for kids. |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 2116
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 9:17 pm: | |
Susan, that's the thought I had, too: that the only reason they say it was a mistake is because it shows that they are a cult.
And obviously it's not just a matter of which books sell, but whether or not they help to keep people supporting Adventism.
Jeremy
(Message edited by Jeremy on September 06, 2007) |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 723
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 9:22 pm: | |
Dale, it is more than just allowing the Clear Word Bible. They aggressively push it with full page ads in the adult Sabbath School Quarterly! That would certainly qualify as "official" endorsement.
Gilbert Jorgensen |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 724
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 9:41 pm: | |
Susan, thank you for your valuable suggestions.
Things have been somewhat chaotic over the past year at the Baptist Church that we have been attending. A major expansion program is almost completed that will provide a much larger fellowship hall/gymnasium/youth chapel on the second floor, and lots of classrooms, etc on the first floor. In the meantime, over the last year (most of the time I have attended) they had to consolidate the adult Bible Study groups that meet between first and second service into one large group in the main sanctuary so the classrooms downstairs would still be available for the children. Their classes used to be in the older, smaller fellowship hall. The pastors are especially anxious to get back to small study groups -- something that I, for the most part, missed out on.
As soon as things return to normal, which is expected to be the beginning of October, the plan is to resume a number of the programs that had to be modified or put on hold for lack of meeting space.
In the meantime I have been studying my Bible each morning on my 45 minute train commute to work and learning lots of fascinating things.
There are a number of other church programs that I need to find out more about and get involved in. When the Crandall Coal Mine collapse occurred about 1-1/2 hours south of Salt Lake City, the Salvation Army started providing food service for all the rescue, media and family people. Southeast Baptist Church also helped out. After the first week I understand that all the food service was turned over to Southeast Baptist. Perhaps it is my fault for not getting more aggressively involved.
I guess certain programs, such as what Seventh-day Adventists call "witnessing" or "evangelism", are so "in-your-face" that there is nothing like it in the mainstream Christian world. Perhaps that is why Doug Batchelor looks like he is always on steriods!
Gilbert Jorgensen |
Agapetos
Registered user
Username: Agapetos
Post Number: 1034
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 2:50 am: | |
Susan and Jeremy, I also had the same thought. I think the status of the Clear Word---"unofficial" yet very heavily endorsed/recommended---is something they probably don't want to change. Officially, if it is kept as "unofficial", then they can dodge accusations of it being a cult-bible-translation. But it has 'value' to the Adventist cause & evangelism, so it will continue to be used and endorsed. The status of it is, I think, not an accident. Sadly. |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 1430
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 4:02 am: | |
Dianna,
What I said to you was all meant in love, I did not "get after you", I was only reasoning about it as I might with anyone else.
You are correct, what you say on here is none of my business, I will not reply to your future post.
Thank you for your forgiveness, but I do not need it as I had no inattention of rebuking you in writing to you, nor did I have any resentment toward you or what you said.
I had not a mean bone in my body in talking to you, have never had not one feeling of resentment toward you or anything you said to date.
Thank you for for communicating your feelings of offense.
River |
Dale
Registered user
Username: Dale
Post Number: 26
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 7:04 am: | |
Gilbert, Which Sabbath S. Quarterly had an ad for the Clear Word. I would like to get it as part of my material. |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 727
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 9:02 am: | |
3Q 2006 - 1844 and the IJ. I believe that I may have sent you one last year. Just look behind the weekly lessons where the advertising starts. If you want me to I'll scan it and email it to you.
I have both the regular and teacher's copy. I'll check them both.
Gilbert Jorgensen |
Lucybugg
Registered user
Username: Lucybugg
Post Number: 84
Registered: 2-2007
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 9:04 am: | |
Ahh....the infamous 3Q 2006 SS lesson study...the straw the broke the camel's back for me... |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 728
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 9:13 am: | |
For me, it is worth having a Clear Word Bible around just to look up the blasphemy that it includes. I use it as part of my "evidence" that I can post here and show others.
Amazon.com Used Books often times has cheap used hardbacks. I got mine in real good condition for $4.75 + postage. If anyone is interested just watch http://amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/105-4217817-1894016?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Clear+Word+Bible
By the way, Ebay is a great place to get old used copies of books such as Daniel March's "Night Scenes of the Bible", originals of Alfred Edersheim's books and others. When I last attended the SDA Sabbath School 3Q 2006, I occasionally would take the 1869(?) orgininal of Night Scenes of the Bible to show people in class where Ellen White got her material from. You should have seen the look on their faces when they saw the actual book, as well as the cross reference from ellenwhite.org.
http://www.ellenwhite.org/egw89.htm
See also http://64.226.233.122/discus/messages/5370/3831.html?1138541692
Gilbert Jorgensen
It has been 162 Years, 10 Months, and 16 Days since October 22, 1844 |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 729
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 9:29 am: | |
Lucybugg, same here.
I had already decided that Ellen White was a "crackpot" in 2005. That was when I started studying in earnest. A thorough study of her "amalgamation of man and beast", the Seal of God, and then Israel Dammon, et. al, convinced me that she was mentally sick.
The spring of 2006 I studied everything I could find on 1844/IJ. Spring of 2006 I learned that the 3Q 2006 study was going to be on 1844/IJ. I decided to get as much mileage as I could out of the discrepancies in the quarterly. Others in the class also were coming to the same conclusions.
The study got off to a very shaky start, and quickly went downhill from there. Clifford Goldstein's logic was obvious to all of us. I don't know if the class every did reach completion, because some of us decided that the SDA logic was such a total joke that it was a waste of our time. Besides some of us had already started attending mainstream Christian churchs on Sunday.
This quarter did offer us an opportunity to pass out quite a few of Dale Ratzlaff's books. The general conclusion of the adult class was that Clifford had an agenda that was not supported by the Bible, and the whole 1844 thing was a sham. I think that was a fair represtation of the sentiments of the class of about 30.
I think the Lord used it as a way to "wake up" a lot of people.
Gilbert Jorgensen
It has been 162 Years, 10 Months, and 16 Days since October 22, 1844 |
Lucybugg
Registered user
Username: Lucybugg
Post Number: 85
Registered: 2-2007
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 9:34 am: | |
Up until that point I considered myself to be a very liberal SDA and actually thought I could hang around and maybe change things. That lesson study proved me wrong. We left during the middle of the quarter and haven't been back. |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 209
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 9:38 am: | |
River, ((hug)) For months after I came out of the SDA church, I didn't feel comfortable calling it a cult either. Gradually that changed, and now I don't have any problem calling it that.
The Adventist church isn't the only cult though. Any church that adds to the word of God or has an authority other than the word of God; is a cult. The Mormons add Joseph Smith and consider his writings more reliable than the Bible (they say the Bible is only true "insofar as it's been translated correctly" I believe), the Catholic church adds the pope as their final authority (and the catacism), the JWs deny Jesus' divinity and the Moslems also deny Jesus' divinity. (Those are a few cults. I'm sure there are lots more.)
Dianne |
Larry
Registered user
Username: Larry
Post Number: 157
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 9:24 pm: | |
Diana,
I just ran into this website about the Clear Wird.
Maybe you'd like to run it off on your printer, or even roughly tear out pages of the CW, along with handwritten corrections in the margins, to show people. Something about the irreverently torn out pages of the CW appeals to me! |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 4274
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 9:58 pm: | |
Larry,
Thanks so much for this. It is late now, so I will look at it more in depth tomorrow when I am not falling asleep at the computer.
Diana |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 4275
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 10:02 pm: | |
River,
I jumped on you with both feet yesterday. I could have said things in a nicer way and I apologize for the way I said what I said.
People can believe what they want to believe about adventism and I will not criticize them. All I ask is the same respect for me.
You Christian sister,
Diana |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 2120
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 10:35 pm: | |
Here is a link to more comparisons of the Clear Word and God's Word: http://www.ratzlaf.com/pdf%20files/4-17-01%20Deliberate%20Distortions%20in%20SDA.pdf
Jeremy |
Randyg
Registered user
Username: Randyg
Post Number: 456
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 10:45 pm: | |
Larry, thank you for that article. It is a great comparison, and I will print it off tomorrow. |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 1432
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 9:18 am: | |
Dianna,
I think you have taken what I said to you before AND this time as that I was speaking to you in the wrong spirit, jumping you or whatever because you are not ready to “call it a cult”.
Dianna, I really don’t care if that is your position on that, your position is your position, I merely was pointing out points.
If you read my response as over bearing or in any manner disrespectful to you, it just was not intended to be that way, I have never even thought of you in such a manner other than complete trust and spirit of camaraderie,
never thought of you in a manner of disrespect in any way, shape or form.
If my words came across to you as harsh, grating or disrespectful, it just was not meant that way, ever!
Now it’s just about got to where I am afraid to write because I am afraid folk will take it in the wrong spirit.
Dianna, I am trying my best to mend any bridges of misunderstandings that might have and I feel did occur, or too any other of you for that matter.
River |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 4283
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 5:40 pm: | |
River,
The bridges and misunderstandings are mended.
All is forgiven and I really do not want to bring it up again. I will say I am very touchy about calling SDA a cult. Just do not mention that to me, please.
I usually take what you say in the manner in which it was given. This time I didn't. So let us move on as brothers and sisters in Christ.
Diana |
Gcfrankie
Registered user
Username: Gcfrankie
Post Number: 53
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 11:10 am: | |
Speaking of about the Clear Word. I had bought a standard size and then a few years later when they came out with the pocket edition I bought that to keep in my car so I could read when I had some down time and that is when I discovered the wording was not the same. I think that is what really sent me over the edge to leave. As I look back now that is what they did with EGW's book the Great Controversay by rewording and repackaging with an up to-date cover.
Gail |
