| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 721 Registered: 11-2005 |
Gilbert Jorgensen It has been 162 Years, 10 Months, and 15 Days since October 22, 1844 (Message edited by jorgfe on September 06, 2007) | ||
| Maggiethecat Registered user Username: Maggiethecat Post Number: 14 Registered: 7-2007  |
Thank you for posting your Exposing Adventism threads Gilbert. I find them fascinating (and scary at the same time). I'm so glad I'm out of that place. Maree | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6743 Registered: 12-2003  |
And here's where our embarassing overlap with Jehovah's Witnesses becomes most apparent. Between this and "soul sleep", Adventism is distinctly related to JWs. And to protect their prophet and to bolster their claim that "Michael is just another name for Jesus; He's not really an angel...", they write the perversion into their own "Bible". Thank you, Gilbert... Colleen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 211 Registered: 7-2007 |
The text, Daniel 10:13, calls Michael "one of the chief princes." | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2117 Registered: 10-2004  |
Actually, Colleen, notice that the Clear Word quote--"the archangel in charge of the entire angelic host"--still doesn't say that he's not an angel. And regarding Revelation 10, the Clear Word and EGW say that the "another [Gk: "of the same kind of"] strong angel" (Rev. 10:1 NASB) in that chapter is "Jesus"! Also, some Adventists today are not arguing that Jesus/Michael is not actually an angel. Instead, they are saying that "Jesus" actually became an angel at some point in "ages past," just like he became a man. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on September 07, 2007) | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 1056 Registered: 8-2004  |
Jeremy wrote:
Yes, and it's not a new thing. This was precisely what I was taught as a child from "Margie Asks Why", a book for kids that tackles the "Hard Topics" of what is sin, and why do we die, and where did Satan come from with an overwhelmingly small number of quotes from the Bible (I remember three or four) in the whole thing. It did, however, refer regularly to EGW's writings. Mary | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2119 Registered: 10-2004 |
Insteresting, Mary. And Margie Asks Why is still sold by the Adventist Book Center and published by Review & Herald:
Jeremy | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 1057 Registered: 8-2004 |
Yep! That's the one. It reads very smoothly, and does seem to answer the questions of an SDA child. Mary | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 492 Registered: 8-2006 |
There is an Adventist pastor on CARM who tonight has said that Jesus, while he is NOT an angel, is the archangel Michael. SDA and JW are the only one who teach that, I believe. Susan | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 156 Registered: 5-2007 |
Will sda's come right out and say that God is an archangel then? Ludicrous. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6746 Registered: 12-2003 |
Good question, Larry. Adventists don't actually believe that Jesus is literally ONE with God. He's part of a "group god"--one-third of "god". He can be an archangel because...well, just because... It's the foundational Arianism still showing its head... Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2121 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yes, that is also how many of them explain the text that Dianne posted (Daniel 10:13), which says that Michael is "one of the chief princes." They say that "Jesus"/"Michael" is "one of the" three gods ("chief princes") in the "Godhead" group. Of course, most of them won't use the term "gods," but that's clearly what it is--polytheism. They really don't see a problem with Jesus being "one of the Chief Princes (Gods)"! And they can't see that the text is clearly referring to archangels, not gods, as "the chief princes"! So sad. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on September 07, 2007) | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 711 Registered: 4-2006  |
Jeremy, wow, how much more cultic can it get. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 744 Registered: 11-2005 |
Living here in Salt Lake City, Utah, where the indigenous religion is Mormonism, I see so many parallels between Adventism and Mormonism. They are a lot more alike than either would admit. A really fascinating side note relates to the North LDS Visitor Center at Temple Square. For those of you who have visited, you will remember that the hallway/foyer area upstairs in the Visitor Center as well as the wide stairway/ramp that winds down through the center of the building between the second and first floor is lined with giant paintings of various Bible scenes. When I last checked some of them said, "Harry Anderson", in the lower right(?) corner. I am told that years ago most of them were done by Harry Anderson. Most of you probably know that he is also the same Seventh-day Adventist artist that has done numerous paintings for Adventist books and publications. When the guides at the Visitor Center are looking at the various pictures including the Angel Moroni, Nephi, etc, and are asked about Harry Anderson being a Seventh-day Adventist, their response will be that the Mormon Church does not discriminate when hiring the best talent that they can find. Many of Harry Anderson's paintings have been since replaced by Mormon painters, but I believe that a few familiar paintings are still on display. Additional links: http://www.lds.org/placestovisit/location/0,10634,1881-1-1-1,00.html http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Temple+Square+Visitor+Center+Harry+Anderson http://www.schoolofabraham.com/anderson.htm Gilbert Jorgensen It has been 162 Years, 10 Months, and 17 Days since October 22, 1844 | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2124 Registered: 10-2004 |
Interesting, Gilbert. I found the following picture of some of Harry Anderson's paintings in the LDS visitor center: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:LDS_north_visitor_center_paintings_in_slc_utah.jpg Jeremy | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 745 Registered: 11-2005 |
Jeremy, you are quite the researcher! Those are good examples. They have lots of pictures. When I visited I felt like I was looking through the same pictures that are in the large Conflict of the Ages books! They are very beautiful pictures. It was a really strange feeling. Gilbert Jorgensen It has been 162 Years, 10 Months, and 17 Days since October 22, 1844 | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2125 Registered: 10-2004 |
Well, I had some help from your Google link. :-) I just put your search terms in quotation marks so it would search the exact phrases. And then I found that link through the second result listed--although now I see that it's on the list of results itself (the fourth and last result). By the way, have you ever noticed how similar the SDA, JW, and Worldwide Church of God paintings are? It's spooky if you ask me! All of those cults' paintings are so similar that an SDA website uses paintings from all three cults for their "bible study course." See: http://www.cyberspaceministry.org/Lessons/Truth-01/trut1-01.html They actually give the credits at the bottom of each page, for the pictures. And they don't think people will think "CULT" when they see "Watchtower"?! Something interesting to do would be to try to guess which pictures are from which cult, before looking at the credits. They all look very similar. Also, the JWs actually plagiarized/stole some of the SDA "Bible Story" paintings. Go to watchthetower.com and click on "Watchtower Steals Artwork!" under "Main Menu." They even changed the paintings a little, just like EGW did with her plagiarism! Jeremy |
