| Author | Message | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2093 Registered: 10-2004  |
In 1 Timothy 4, Paul gives a prophecy that he says is the Holy Spirit's own words:
Just last night, I happened to come across the following EGW quote. Here is the entire quote as found in Manuscript Releases, Volume Seven (the introductory description in the first paragraph is from the White Estate):
Here is an incredible fulfillment of what the Holy Spirit said would happen, in 1 Timothy 4! In this quote, not only does EGW teach people to abstain from foods, but she even admits that it was an angel that taught her these doctrines and she even quotes the angel teaching these things. God says in 1 Timothy 4 that people would teach doctrines that angels (fallen) had taught them, teaching people to abstain from certain foods--and here Ellen admits that an angel taught her that exact doctrine! False prophets are not harmless--they are led by evil spirits (see 1 John 4:1-3). EGW was not just brain-damaged or mentally ill, she was literally taught by demons. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on August 31, 2007) | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 133 Registered: 5-2007 |
Jeremy, I also maintain that those spirits who influenced egw were demons.
This is a form of marriage prohibition! sda's traditionally use 1 Timothy 4:1-5 to whip the Roman Catholic church. I wonder how smug they feel when it applies to their own prophet? Here's a couple more gems:
and
Wouldn't this fit the definition of a false prophecy? | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 134 Registered: 5-2007 |
The four dots (....) were actually in the book. I wonder what they left out? I have seen this in numererous places, even on the estate search engine. I wonder what kind of "God-inspired message" they are censoring? Did Adam and Eve suprise God with their transgression? God knows the end from the beginning. egw takes a lack of meat eating in the Garden of Eden and with sleight of hand forms this thought: "It is a gross perverted taste that will accept such food" | ||
| Mrsbrian3 Registered user Username: Mrsbrian3 Post Number: 87 Registered: 8-2005 |
Speaking of meat-eating, I was listening to some preacher on the radio preaching on the miracle of feeding the 5000. You'd think if meat-eating were going to be a test of readiness for Heaven someday that while He was at the mircle of making two small fishies feed thousands that He'd have gone ahead and turned it into tofu or something. My deep thought for the day ...  | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1401 Registered: 9-2006  |
Mrsbrian3, Ha! A good one. Jeremy, Thats the reason why when you try to show an Adventist the scripture in context and principle, they cannot see, this same spirit has them in its grip. These spirits do not die out just because Ellen did they just pick another pig. If there was legions of spirits in one person, think of the numbers in the world. Just a thought. River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4238 Registered: 3-2004  |
And River, God is stronger than all the legions of spirits in the world. Praise God!!! Hallelujah!!! God has defeated Satan and his legions. He is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1016 Registered: 10-2002  |
I think I'm sadly not surprised at Ellen's direct contact.  At the same time, I don't know if she was completely honest in what she wrote, whether she got the idea from someone else or a book, or made it up to sound more spiritual or prophetic. Maybe she got her stuff from the spirits and then shared it with the other early SDAs, or maybe she got her ideas from them and then had a spirit confirm it, or maybe she completely faked the confirmation of a spirit. I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter if the spirits were real or faked, because the net result of it all was that it produced the doctrines of deceiving spirits the Bible talks about. I'll never forget one time I learned about how spirits like this work. You know how sometimes the more liberal or nearly agnostic folks of academia tend to come up with these ideas or theories which completely negate what is written in the Bible? Once I was shocked to hear some of these things come from some people who had been in contact with what they believed was the Holy Spirit. They were saying the same things I had heard from unbelieving academics. Suddenly I realized that both groups of people were hearing from the same spirit. The difference was that one group did it in a more "spiritual" contacting way, and the other generally disbelieved in spirits yet was in contact with them through their blindness to the spiritual world and through their worldly intelligence. Direct contact with spirits isn't the only way to hear from them, I learned. People who even disbelieve in these spirits are vulnerable to learning their teachings. This is why I say that no matter whether EGW & the early Adventists had direct contact or not, they learned these teachings from deceiving spirits. The net effect of these teachings reveals their source -- only teachings which are from anti-Christ spirits would reduce the identity of Christ and would undermine the Gospel. The Gospel reveals what these SDA teachings are; the Gospel shows the glory of God in the face of Christ, and in contrast we see exposed the true nature of the things the early Adventists came up with. And we know their source. Knowing all this, doesn't it make the task of evangelizing to former Adventists a lot clearer? Isn't it clear that while knowledge is very important in this effort, that because it is rooted in spiritual bondage, that therefore the greatest weapon we have is the Holy Spirit? It is only through His intercession that Adventists are made free -- it was only through His intercession that our eyes were opened. He is the only Spirit that can bind the spirit of Adventism. Our only way is to get closer and closer to Jesus and listen to His Spirit, asking Him to intercede by His Spirit through our prayers in His love for those He loves so much. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2102 Registered: 10-2004 |
Amen, Ramone! That is one reason why it is important to recognize the source of Adventism. Regarding "direct contact": Considering the many, many accounts by Ellen of having angel visits/guides (and even the same guide for several decades!), over a period of more than 70 years--I think it would be quite a stretch to think that she was just making it all up, and that she never saw any angels. And especially so when considering what the Bible says about false prophets being led by evil spirits (angels). And when taking into account what 1 Timothy 4 says specifically will happen, and then seeing what EGW says about her experience in the quote above--I don't think that can just be a coincidence! Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on September 02, 2007) | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 142 Registered: 5-2007 |
One might suppose that just once, egw wondered how authentic her visions were, and if they were from God at all. Well, I have discovered her level of proof in a statement that seems amazing.
I guess Satan is not able to give visions that are remarkable! All it takes is for a vision to be remarkable, and bingo, you know it is from God. | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 377 Registered: 3-2005 |
Excellent post, Ramone. Very well said. Patria | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6718 Registered: 12-2003  |
Ramone and Jeremy, I agree with you. Unless we acknowledge the spiritual reality underlying Adventism, we won't be equipped to address it adequately. As you said, Ramone, information is important--but understanding the literal spiritual hold on Adventists is crucial. It is this hold that makes purely information-based discussions mere arguments. We can't argue with doctrines of demons. We have to pray for God to break their power. Colleen | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1022 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jeremy, I agree and tend to lean towards a direct contact with demonic powers, however there are folks who argue the effects of the rock that hit her head, etc. Still others who attribute it to psychological problems, etc. It can get to the point when talking with some folks that the whole point seems to be proving this or that theory, and then it's a wild-goose chase with them. I just say that whatever the case turns out to be, "by their fruits you will know them". And the fruit of early Adventism is clearly anti-gospel. Whether the workings of an imagination, a psychological problem, a direct demonic contact, idle theorizing, etc., the "ends" make the spirit clear regardless of the "means" it used. But as you said, after reading what she wrote, it is very difficult to see it as anything short of straight-up Galatians-chapter-one condemned spirit conversation. ***** Although, now that I write this, I realize something else which I think is a lot more sobering. People who know of spiritual warfare or go through counseling or deliverance for people who are demonized -- they know that the devil must be given "a foothold" as it says in Scripture. He needs something to hold onto, a right to be there, so to speak. Sometimes we refer to this as a "door" or as an "open door." For example, keeping a ouija board (or any occultic thing) is an open door to occultic spirits. In Japan, having an altar to Buddha or one's ancestors is an open door. For example, the Lord helped us identify this as a problem for one lady in a prayer group some years ago. She had always had an unnatural fear of a certain knocking sound (which usually comes from these loud Tenrikyo prayers you can hear in some neighborhoods). The Spirit cued us to ask about when she was little (because that's when the enemy likes to do his scarring the most -- if the fear is planted early enough, then it stays with you all your life and you don't know why you have that fear, but at night you feel like a little kid scared of the dark even though you "know" there's nothing there). This lady's family had had a family altar in the closet, and one night when she was little she heard or saw something walking out from it, and that scarred her and created a stronghold of fear in her. (We prayed and bound that spirit in Jesus' name, cast it out in Jesus' name, etc., and God is faithful to His will and name and took her fear away!) Anyway, so I was thinking just now, what was the open door that let in this condemned spirit in Ellen/Adventism? I believe the answer begins where Adventism began: at the rejection of Scripture and further at the inability to repent. Seeking to hold onto the Holy Spirit and yet rejecting His Word is dangerous (and conversely, so is the opposite). By rejecting the clear word of the Bible, Ellen's family opened the door to further deception and it was all downhill from there. Add to this the reason repentance could not be done: pride. Pride is one of the greatest reasons we make excuses and seek alternate explanations to what is written clearly. If your pride blinds you and you want another explanation, the enemy will help you find another explanation. I believe the rejection of Scripture's word about Christ's return and the pride-based push to continue on and not repent -- I believe this is the major open door for Ellen & Adventism to the spirit which so terrorizes people even to this day. | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 378 Registered: 3-2005 |
Though I haven't been in on this conversation before, it is something that has been in my mind for some time. This is perhaps a slightly different angle from the one you're discussing, but I believe is related to what you all are saying. As a result of something that happened when I was a child, I had indescribable fear of the dark. I watched a demon manifest itself at the age of 8. Of course ever after that, I was paralyzed by fear, often. My parents didn't know. I was too frightened to ever speak about the incident out loud. I wasn't released from the fear until I came out of Adventism 3 years ago. Here's my point. As an Adventist, I believed all spiritual things were evil. There was no good side to the spiritual world. I have wondered if the teaching that God the Father is corporeal, is part of what gives that belief structure since it isn't usually overtly taught. Since what I knew of "god" was that He has a body and what I knew of the demon was that it could be wherever I was, "god" had less power than Satan. I lived with that tainted picture of reality until I was in my 30's. Yes, I believe Satan has had more than one stronghold in Adventism. Stronghold #1: when the early fanatics chose to continue in the path of what they knew was wrong, what God had shown them to be in error. Stronghold #2: welcoming errant teaching even having grown up exposed to the true Gospel. After that, I believe it spiraled out of control. Now, at our modern times, strongholds are many and varied. One of my friends who has also left Adventism, calls it the gateway religion. That is, the gateway to the demonic realm. It opens up the reality of the supernatural demonic world, but closes the door on the reigning Power Who has conquered sin and death. It's the exact opposite of the Truth. Anyway, those are just my thoughts... Patria (Message edited by patriar on September 03, 2007) (Message edited by patriar on September 03, 2007) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1414 Registered: 9-2006 |
Ramone, I have been present at the occasion of deliverance ministry before, I agree with you 100% about the spirits right to be there, opening a door for them in some way. I can tell you this, once there, they do not want to leave, they don’t give up without a fight, they even argued with Jesus, its as you said, however it got there, it got there. Like most of you, I have a hard time believing it was caused by a knock on the noggin. They were reprimanded by the Methodist church, when the people of the church reprimands you it,s time to examine whatever it is you are being called to question on, they had that chance, the whole family of them, her twin sister apparently did repent of it or refused outright to become a part of it and stayed with the local church she was in until she died. I hesitate to say that that opened the door, but just looking at it from afar I wouldn’t rule it out either. They were offered extension and repentance before the Methodist church finally had to take action and de-fellowship, I would guess that that was the point that gave that spirit the right to take up residence. As I said I have witnessed the deliverance of folk from evil spirits, it always boiled down to hard dirty work with a dozen or so prayer warriors, no T.V. stuff here folks. No Hollywood version of turning green and spurting a stream of green puke, just down right hard work until the person in question can give God the glory and the person has to want delivered because they have given that spirit the right to be there. Not that I am saying every Adventist is possessed, I just happen to suspect that she might have been overtaken and possessed. Just my own opinion, you alls opinion is a good as mine if not better. River | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2107 Registered: 10-2004 |
The thing that seems funny to me is when people say that it was just brain/mental problems. Brain or mental problems or hallucinations cannot cause an angel to appear to you for decades who gives you a coherent, religious message and instructions that enslave millions of followers for generations! And to think that there were no actual spirits behind the spirits that appeared to her... All of that totally crosses the bounds of believability, in my opinion. Jeremy | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 329 Registered: 11-2005 |
Patriar, I grew up with a paralyzing fear of the dark, "things" around the corner, etc. It wasn't until just recently that those fears have left me. I think part of the "darkness" associated with Adventism is that Adventism is a very superstitious type of religion. Ideas like angels waiting outside of theaters, or other "cause and effect" type of spiritual consequences naturally brings out a lot of fear. You throw in the idea of a corporeal God the Father, a weak Jesus, and a Holy Spirit that exists as a "conscience" and "it", and you have a very weak defense against what Ellen has made out to be a very powerful devil. The Adventist religion very much elevates the ability of Satan and the stronghold he has on people. Darkness comes from dark things. To say the source of this darkness is delusional "creativity" is just giving our minds too much credit. The Enemy has a lethal grip on Adventists, and only God's grace can truly break it free. If the source was just "mind games", then the "influence" would have worn off by now. Yet, we all through our Adventist families and friends, see that the influence is still very strong. There's a reason Adventists have so much fear... Grace (Message edited by snowboardingmom on September 03, 2007) | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 321 Registered: 7-2005  |
Grace wrote: "The Adventist religion very much elevates the ability of Satan and the stronghold he has on people." Grace, I SO agree with you on this. I get so TIRED of hearing what the Devil is doing in someone's life! We are here to maginfy and exalt Christ, not Satan! Honestwitness | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4251 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thank You HW. I don't mind reading about what EGW has written, but I would much rather know what God is doing in every members life. We all know she is a false prophet. I do not need to know all the details. I shiver to even think of them. Praise God for taking each of us out of adventism and the clutches of EGW. She no longer has a death grip on me. God, you are so awesome. Diana | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 169 Registered: 5-2007  |
Thank you Honestwitness and Diana for your comments about the need to focus our attention on Jesus Christ and his gospel message. And, thank you Dennis (on another thread) for reminding use that there is only one gospel message. Being a Christian is not a "do-it-yourself" project. Once I knew for sure EGW was a false prophet, I have not looked back. In addition to the great teachers that I was "sitting under" I had the great good fortune meet Ray C. Stedman and learn from his teaching. Early on, I discovered what faith was all about from the story of Hudson Taylor and the China Inland Mission. When I was ready for some really deep theology, I was introduced to Lewis Sperry Chafer. And, it all focuses on our Savior, the Lord, not the person being led by the Holy Spirit to introduce us to the Lord. But then, that is exactly what is happening here at this forum. You might say our "ship" was in a very contaminated harbor at one time and we are simply making sure to scrap off the "barnacles" so we can sail with a clean vessel towards a safe harbor. Phil | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 79 Registered: 12-2003 |
I can so relate to what some of you have written above, about living with unreasonable fears. I am terrified of staying alone at night in my own home. Tomorrow, my husband will be away and I will be alone, overnight, for the first time ever. Now I know it's ridiculous for me to be so fearful and I hate how debilitating it is. I want to be freed from it and I've decided that with the Lord's help I CAN do this but I'm still very afraid that when it comes down to the wire I will flip out. I have been tempted to have a friend come and stay with me or to go stay with someone for the night but I don't want to give in to the fear. I want to trust Jesus to carry me through it. I would like to hear more about how you who overcame such fears were able to do so. This has been a stronghold my entire life and I have no idea how it started. If anyone is willing to pray for me to be released from this bondage I would be so grateful. |
