| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 707 Registered: 11-2005 |
From this we learn that Ellen White taught: 1. Satan was once an honored angel in heaven, next to Christ. (So Satan was next in command to God the Son, but not God the Father or God the Holy Ghost?) 2. Satan's forehead was high and broad, showing great intelligence. His form was perfect; his bearing noble and majestic. (This sounds consistent with Ellen White's interest in phrenology. See http://www.ellenwhite.org/phrenology.htm and http://h0bbes.wordpress.com/2006/11/30/phrenology-the-adventist-connection/ . So were Satan and the angels created in the image of God?) 3. Satan was jealous of Jesus. (I wasn't aware of this. Did God the Son go by the name of Jesus at this time?) 4. Satan desired to receive the highest honors in heaven next to God. (Evidently God the Son wasn't God?) 5. Satan, ambitious to exalt himself, and unwilling to submit to the authority of Jesus, was insinuating against the government of God. 6. Satan and his sympathizers ... wished to look into His unsearchable wisdom, and ascertain His purpose in exalting Jesus and endowing Him with such unlimited power and command. If Jesus was God the Son, how would God the Father "endow" God the Son with "unlimited power and command". What power did God the Son have prior to this "endowment"? 7. All the heavenly host were summoned to appear before the Father to have each case decided. (Hopefully it went faster than the Investigative Judgment has been proceeding!) 8. Satan wished to conquer the Son of God. (This, in effect, is the same as saying that Satan, a created angel, wished to conquer God, his Creator.) 9. Satan, with his followers, was driven from heaven. (So if Satan was driven from heaven -- according to the following narrative -- before Adam and Eve sinned, then how is it that Ellen allows Satan back into the Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary in 1844 to answer the prayers of those who are "praying to the Holy Place"?) 10. Satan consulted with his angels, and a plan was laid to still work against God's government. When Adam and Eve were placed in the beautiful garden, Satan was laying plans to destroy them. 11. Satan must excite their curiosity, and lead them to pry into the unsearchable plans of God-- the very sin of which Satan had been guilty. (So now we know that "the very sin of which Satan had been guilty" was "to pry into the unsearchable plans of God".) Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 667 Registered: 5-2007 |
Ellen sure wrote a lot about Satan. Adevtists seem to give Satan more credit than he deserves IMHO. That really bothers me. | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 153 Registered: 5-2007 |
Where in scripture does it warn us of this particular sin? Could be it's junk theology again. Where in the Bible does it say Satan was guilty of this offense? Did she just make this up? Gilbert, I am starting to think not all she said was inspired of God. | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 486 Registered: 8-2006 |
Larry said: Gilbert, I am starting to think not all she said was inspired by God. ROFL!!!!!!!!! Ya think? Susan | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 725 Registered: 11-2005 |
Susan, I don't think she ever was inspired by God! It's even more apparent when you read about how she and her family were booted out of the Methodist church for their disruptive behavior and Millerite date setting. Of course she sanitizes the story so it is all their fault! "Prevarication is to act or speak evasively; to circle around the truth but not tell quite the whole truth; to state something so that superficially it is true, but information is withheld which causes the hearer to gain a false impression." It is a technique that Ellen excelled at! http://www.truthorfables.com/Reasons_EGW_Harmon_family_disfellowshipped.htm Gilbert Jorgensen (Message edited by jorgfe on September 06, 2007) | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 487 Registered: 8-2006 |
Oh, yeah, I've read all that. HER version in Early Writings is as good a whitewash job as the Israel Dammon incident. Prevarication-it's been a long time since I heard that word. Interestingly enough, it was used to censure a church member when I was in a very small, very historic, very legalistic SDA church. I think it perfectly applies to Ellen. Susan | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 488 Registered: 8-2006 |
Gilbert, may I ask a question of you? When you were a SDA, did you read all these things that you are posting now? Or are you seeing them now for the first time? For me, there's hardly anything I've read here posted in the almost 3 years I lurked before joining FAF that I had not read when I was an Adventist . I had quite an extensive EGW library and read almost everything in what I owned. It's just amazing to me how I swallowed it all hook line and sinker as coming straight from the throne of God out the mouth of Ellen! What I found so precious before I find so abhorrent now. Either way, it's (to paraphrase another poster on another thread) amazing and scary to read it again! Susan (Message edited by SusanS on September 06, 2007) (Message edited by SusanS on September 06, 2007) | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 730 Registered: 11-2005 |
Susan, prior to about 2-1/2 years ago I was not away of hardly any of this. Our youngest child is now 12. Most of my years of adult SDA life I have been actively involved in the children's or youth divisions. We would use the Conflict of the Ages, and the Bible Story series, for most the preparation material. While we have a rather exhaustive collection of Ellen White material, and denominational books, it was all studied from the perspective of trying to more closely follow her counsels. Both my wife and I come from very "Historic Seventh-day Adventist" extended families. Our focus was be on the "withered right arm of the gospel" -- medical missionary evangelism, the "health message", preparation for the time of trouble, moving to the country, self-sufficiency, etc. Those are the sort of things we would read (and our relatives still read) from her "counsels". Publications such as Vance Ferrel's would keep us updated on how far the Seventh-day Adventist denominational leadership had stray from the "message". Gilbert Jorgensen It has been 162 Years, 10 Months, and 16 Days since October 22, 1844 | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 491 Registered: 8-2006 |
Thanks, Gilbert. I understand about studying to follow more closely her counsels. That's how I read them too. It is still amazing to me that I didn't look at some of that and say "come on, that can't really be true or happened that way"! I never questioned anything I read. What she said came from the Lord! When she blasted Dr. Kellogg, it was because he was a pantheist. When she brutally slandered Canright, it was because he was an apostate. When she didn't answer the questions posed to her by AT Jones, etal, it was because the Lord gave her that vision not to do it! I would consider myself an "historic" SDA as well, even though I was a convert. Being a perfectionist with inborn legalistic tendencies made it natural I wouldn't be a more progressive Adventist. I got Firm Foundation and Vance's Waymarks too. In fact, after I quit being a colporter, I ordered cases of his versions of EGW books and passed them out. I remember sitting in my best friend's car in the church parking lot and her telling me that the only way we would get into heaven was by the blood of Jesus Christ. I had been devouring Vance's quotes from EGW about there being a literal two apartment sanctuary in heaven where Jesus was carrying on the investigative judgment. I remember thinking "no, that's NOT all there is to it! There is more you just don't KNOW"! I find it incredible that I didn't understand or BELIEVE the simple gospel of the Bible. She did. It's funny though, I'm no longer and SDA and she is very devout. One reason I KNOW there are SDA's who are truly Christ-followers. Your focus was mine as well. I'm so glad we are both focusing on the GOSPEL alone! Praise the Lord! Keep posting all these quotes here, Gilbert! SDA's and former SDA's need to see them! In Christian love, Susan (Message edited by SusanS on September 07, 2007) (Message edited by SusanS on September 07, 2007) | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 733 Registered: 11-2005 |
Susan, Same here. I got a case of paperback Great Controversy books, and would discreetly leave them on the bus when I would ride to work. Gilbert Jorgensen It has been 162 Years, 10 Months, and 16 Days since October 22, 1844 | ||
| Zjason Registered user Username: Zjason Post Number: 75 Registered: 11-2005  |
I think 1 Peter 1:12 has something to say about angels longing to look into the plan of salvation? I fail to see the dreadfulness of trying to search the unsearchable...as Lucifer did. | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 173 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thank you Zjason, I had no idea that verse was there. You were used of the Holy Spirit to enlighten another soul  |
