| Author |
Message |
Susans
Registered user
Username: Susans
Post Number: 479
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 6:36 pm: |     |
Gilbert,
Yes, that is EXACTLY what Ellen taught, and I believed it as well. I'm so glad now I know what the Bible says about salvation! Praise Jesus is right!
Susan |
Spokenfor
Registered user
Username: Spokenfor
Post Number: 83
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 9:30 pm: | |
I just wanted to update you who have been praying for me. I am amazedly unafraid as I continue to stay alone! I have felt the Lord's presence continually - He has been faithful to carry me through this and wrap me in His peace. I can hardly believe it but the absense of fear is very real. Thank you all again -- so very very much. |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 2113
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 9:54 pm: | |
Praise the Lord! He is wonderful.
Jeremy |
Susans
Registered user
Username: Susans
Post Number: 480
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 10:15 pm: | |
Yes, praise the Lord for giving you victory over your fear! Perfect love casts out all fear!
Susan |
Agapetos
Registered user
Username: Agapetos
Post Number: 1025
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 1:12 am: | |
Spokenfor, I'm praising God! He is awesome and will never let you go!
Gilbert, that was DEEP, bro. Trying to write the Law on the old heart! How true! And how futile! Isn't the whole Old Testament a historical record of how impossible that is? (The Adventist answer: Yes, but now with Jesus' help and the Holy Spirit's help we can do it!) |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 1053
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 6:03 am: | |
Ramone wrote:
"The Adventist answer: Yes, but . . ."
Now there's a succinct description of one of the main problems with Adventism! |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 711
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 6:54 am: | |
This morning I was thinking about how it is our nature at times to try to be kind to Ellen White, and give her the benefit of the doubt.
The thought occurred to me that it is actually very simple to determine whether she is of God, or of Satan. Here's how:
She frequently stated herself that her guide, or angel, showed her and told her things. All we have to do is take a moment to consider what her guide, or angel, told her. If it agrees with God's Word then we know it came from God, or one of God's angels. If it disagrees with God's Word then we know that it came from Satan and his angels. His angels are called "demons". If she knowingly claimed that an angel showed her what she wrote, but she really made it up, then she lied. And we are told that Satan is the "father of lies". It really is that simple.
1. What she wrote agrees with the Bible. (God)
2. What she wrote disagrees with the Bible. (Satan)
3. She knowingly lied about her "visions". (Satan)
There are no other choices. In Bible times they stoned false prophets to death.
Gilbert Jorgensen |
Patriar
Registered user
Username: Patriar
Post Number: 387
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 7:29 am: | |
Spokenfor:
Praise God! Wow. What a picture of God's perfect love casting out fear.
HE is awesome!!
Patria |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 891
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 7:37 am: | |
When I was in the depths of Adventism...I had subdued the flesh (I wasn't drinking beer or eating meat), I was keeping the Sabbath to the best of my ability (even alienating family that had their TV on on Sabbath-I wouldn't go over there), etc. I was driving one day and I asked God to go ahead and kill me off. Why? Because I knew I would backslide again and I wanted to go to heaven and I thought at the time I was as close to perfection as I was going to get.
I had 5 kids at home who needed me...wasn't that a crazy thought? But that is SDAism...desperation...trying to be perfect instead of relying on the One who is Perfect, Christ!
I didn't know what the Gospel was or how we were really saved because I had never heard the Gospel in 37 years of being in the SDA fold!
Sad. |
Spokenfor
Registered user
Username: Spokenfor
Post Number: 84
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 9:43 am: | |
Your post just brings tears to my eyes Pheeki. The craziness that Adventism sets one up for -- it's really sick stuff isn't it? The darkness that comes from doctrines of demons like perfectionism makes life too hard to even live sometimes. Praise God for rescuing us from the lies and deciet. Praise God that we are FREE in Jesus! |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 665
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 9:50 am: | |
I'm beginning to wonder if Adventism isn't as bad as dope. |
Blessed
Registered user
Username: Blessed
Post Number: 90
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 10:26 am: | |
Wow Pheeki, that so saddens me to read the despair that you felt but Praise God you have been delivered. I also appreciate you sharing that you did not hear the Gospel the entire time that you were in Adventism. I did not either and any Adventist that I share that with always disagrees with me and says that the gospel is constantly preached. Sometimes I have wondered if I am "out-to-lunch" so to speak but then I read the forum and know that what I experienced is real.
Reb - that is a loaded statement but I think there is some validity to what you are saying. It is addictive and very hard to get away from - the only way is through the reading of the Word and the Holy Spirit taking the veil away.
Praise the Lord that each of us has been delivered.
Blessed |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 713
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 11:19 am: | |
Blessed, the reason why Seventh-day Adventists "think" that the gospel is being preached at their church is because they have never heard the real Gospel. The "old" heart is incapable of understanding the New Covenant Gospel. That is why the whole focus of salvation is on "believing", eg John 3:16, Hebrews 3-4. Until they believe, and accept the premise of the New Covenant, it is my opinion that they never will understand the Gospel.
quote:Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: Acts 28:26 KJV
quote:For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Acts 28:27 KJV
quote:(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. Romans 11:8 KJV
Gilbert Jorgensen |
Spokenfor
Registered user
Username: Spokenfor
Post Number: 85
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 11:34 am: | |
So true, they 'think' they are hearing the gospel but mostly they don't even know what it really is. They hear the 'adventist gospel' which they perceive to be the real thing. When you first hear the true Gospel it's SO amazing and the gospel you knew as an adventist looks empty and gray standing next to the real thing. And it is. |
Larry
Registered user
Username: Larry
Post Number: 152
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 12:08 pm: | |
I have come to understand the word "heart", "ears", and "eyes" in these contexts the same as "when Moses is read a veil comes over their hearts" etc. In other words, they are all synonyms for understanding. Am I right about this?
So, according to sda theology of having the old covenant written on a "new heart" how can that be? If you have the "new understanding" you will not crave the old covenant, but understand the new covenant and obey it.
So circumcision of the heart would represent taking away of the veil to understanding. Is that right?
I appreciate any comments or corrections.
(Message edited by Larry on September 06, 2007) |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 715
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 12:41 pm: | |
circumcision of the heart - That's right
Adventists don't comprehend a difference between a "old" heart and a "new" heart. The word "soul" doesn't mean anything to them either. They have a fixation on the Ten Commandments, and some of the SDA's that I know feel that under the Old Covenant the Ten Commandments were written on tables of stone, but under the New Covenant the Ten Commandments are written in the heart. The concept of the Holy Spirit taking away the old heart (with its evil desires), and replacing it with a new heart (filled with the Spirit of Life) is something that they can't even comprehend. They have no context with which to relate to it.
They pray from the pulpit that "God will send the Holy Spirit", not realizing that when one is "sealed" with the Holy Spirit instead of the Sabbath, that the Holy Spirit will then dwell within them and as part of that process give them a new heart. Their counterfeit "seal" has replaced the Holy Spirit with the Seventh-day Sabbath.
About 1-1/2 years ago they studied the Holy Spirit for the children's Sabbath School class. The message given the children was that an indication of the Holy Spirit's "presence" is that they will keep their bodies "pure", follow good temperance principles, and not eat meat -- since their bodies are the "temple of God".
The bottom line for them is that Ellen White said the Ten Commandments are eternal, and the Seventh-day Sabbath is the great test. All other theology either must align itself with that, or Ellen has said that anything else is counterfeit theology whose presence is proof that even the very elect will be deceived.
In Early Writings she rants on and on about how the "nominal churches" were calling the "Advent movement" mesmerism and fanaticism, and that such labeling was proof that God was behind the movment she was cheerleading.
It is also helpful to remember that at a very early age she, along with her family, were cast out of the Methodist Church because they insisted on getting caught up in William Miller's date setting -- which Ellen said the Lord showed her was lead by heavenly angels. Between her hysteria and the trauma to her brain it is not too suprising that James White exploited her in the way that he did. Imagine if Joseph Smith had been similarly successful in establishing a female leader in his movement early on. It is fascinating how many cults have both a leading male, and a leading female.
http://www.truthorfables.com/Reasons_EGW_Harmon_family_disfellowshipped.htm
Gilbert Jorgensen |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 669
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 12:44 pm: | |
I've been saying for some time that I believe she was exploited by James and others leading that movement.
I have and still believe that Ellen was mentally ill rather than demonic and manipulated by unscrupulous people including her husband into thinking she had a "gift" that was nothing more than symptoms of her illness. |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 208
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 1:00 pm: | |
When I was an Adventist, I didn't know anything about the covenants - I just thought that the Ten Commandments were written on our hearts. I believed that we were "saved by grace through faith" but I didn't have the assurance of salvation - except briefly after I'd asked God to forgive all my sins. Whenever I felt the need of the assurance of salvation again, I'd read that text that says that we're saved by grace through faith; and ask the Lord to forgive me. Then again for a short time, I'd have the assurance of salvation. Anyway, I thought that WAS the gospel; but I didn't see any change in my life - and I couldn't keep ahold of that "assurance of salvation." Of course I had to factor in Ellen White's statement that no one should say or feel that they are saved.
Dianne |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 717
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 1:17 pm: | |
Reb, I think the statement, "By their fruits ye shall know them", is a good guide. What she was "possessed" by doesn't matter as much as what kind of "fruit" she has produced within the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Demon or not, the fruit (and deception) speaks for itself.
Gilbert Jorgensen |
