| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 672 Registered: 11-2005 |
And then it was 1844, the 1851, then 1885 ... Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 364 Registered: 3-2005 |
Gilbert, Was that last date 1885 or 1855? This quote is one of the things that gave me pause early on in my study. It seemed incongruous to me that a perfect God would use trickery and deceit to get His point across. Patria | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 139 Registered: 5-2007 |
Right on Gilbert! When did God, in the Bible, ever ensure mankind would believe "a mistake", or error? God does not originate mistakes! What a sham. Anyone reading that sentence, in that time-period, could in good conscience have turned their backs on this fake prophet and walked away for good. That is exactly what people in this day and age should do. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 675 Registered: 11-2005 |
Larry, it also reminds me of Jesus' story of the rich man and Lazarus. Adventists, of course, say that it is a "made up" story because souls can't talk. My response is, "Since when did Jesus use a lie to illustrate a truth?" Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6704 Registered: 12-2003  |
Gilbert, that particular quote was the one which made me realize I had no choice but to call Ellen a false prophet. And I agree re: that Lazarus parable. I remember the evening at our FAF Bible study during our first year when we had invited Gary inrig to lead a study on the state of the dead. He turned to that parable as a Biblical example that a spirit survives the death of the body. When He read this to us, we looked at him and said, "But that's just a parable. It wasn't real." I'll never forget the surprised look on Gary's face before he said, "Jesus would never say something untrue to prove a truth." I realized suddenly that we had believed he could and would use an untruth to teach a truth because Ellen had done that...and further, she taught, as per the quote above, that God did, too! What blasphemy--and what a relief to know that we can completely depend on the words of Jesus. Colleen | ||
| Dale Registered user Username: Dale Post Number: 22 Registered: 4-2007  |
Gilbert, You are familiar with Jud Lakes statements about me and other Formers. When I wrote my response, he sent me a letter stating that he would answer the points I raised--about EGW's statements of those who rejected Miller, etc. Well, I am still waiting. There are no answers that they like. There is only one answer: She is off the wall, not a messenger of God, and what she said was true, was false and what she said was false was true. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1406 Registered: 9-2006  |
He knows that Dale, thats why you get no answer. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 682 Registered: 11-2005 |
Dale, it is so amazing how they try to squirm out of everything! For example, the Old Jerusalem statement -- they say that it refers to "spiritual Israel" in the editor's notes right in Early Writings! In the morning I have a 45-minute commute to work during which I read the Bible. I have the same back home. Since meeting and Adventist lady on the train a week ago Friday I have started hauling Early Writings with me and reading it so I can discuss it with her. Dale, there are so many bizarre statements in Early Writings I cannot believe that anyone would take it seriously. I have only posted a small fraction of what I have encountered on this forum. I am stunned at all the garbage. How can anyone in their right mind ever believe that Ellen White was "inspired", much less a continuing, authoritative source of truth?!! Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 140 Registered: 5-2007 |
A few more facets to this problem. 1) The word "seen" implies a vision or at least some perceptive power that you or I do not possess. If this statement is in fact due to vision, then no amount of post-vision obfuscating 30 years later will cancel what occurred in the vision. Big problem. 2) God endorsed timesetting by man. Bible says the opposite. 3) God got the event wrong. Maybe the sda god gets stuff wrong, but not the Christian God. 4) God got the date wrong. Ditto #3. Our perfect God gets nothing wrong! Where do sda's point in the Bible to show that God gets stuff wrong? Even Balaams donkey did not get it wrong, and the donkey had never taken a Hebrew lesson! Just stirring the pot  | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6714 Registered: 12-2003 |
Total agreement here, Larry! Colleen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 657 Registered: 5-2007 |
When I found this out, that was what made me realise that Adventism is false. | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 485 Registered: 7-2005 |
Pastor Dale \quote(Gilbert, You are familiar with Jud Lakes statements about me and other Formers. When I wrote my response, he sent me a letter stating that he would answer the points I raised--about EGW's statements of those who rejected Miller, etc. Well, I am still waiting. There are no answers that they like.} You don't need to wait any longer. As far as I'm aware, in August the following answer to your questions was given by Jud Lake on his site. This is the link to the PDF file in which you find his answers. "Specific Response to Dale Ratzlaff's Fourteen Questions" http://ellenwhiteanswers.org/critics It would be better to check his site before saying that he's not keeping his word. on the other part, Jud Lake is not a great apologist as he thinks he is, the answers he gives are not at all good answers. Gabriel | ||
| Zjason Registered user Username: Zjason Post Number: 74 Registered: 11-2005  |
So what was the reason(s) Ellen gave for why God had covered up the errors in figuring? | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 162 Registered: 5-2007 |
Jackob, thanks for bringing that to our attention. I noticed right off that Lake gives no time stamp on the letter. I wonder how long it has been on the net? Why did he not send a hard copy to Dale Ratzlaff? Beware, Lakes letter uses around a dozen different fiorms of lies and dishonesty, that I could see. Maybe we should start a seperate thread called "Spot the Lies: Judd Lake Unchained" LOL | ||
| Martinc Registered user Username: Martinc Post Number: 12 Registered: 9-2006 |
Then perhaps Dr. Lake has sat on the wall with this great master of rhetoric: "But `glory' doesn't mean `a nice knock-down argument,'" Alice objected. "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in a rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less." "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean different things." "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master -- that's all." (Through the Looking Glass, Lewis Carroll) Which is to be master, indeed! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6755 Registered: 12-2003 |
Martin, that is so appropriate! When I contemplate the confusion that results from Adventists using Christian words without meaning what Christdom thinks they mean, I've often said it makes me feel as if I just fell down the rabbit hole. Colleen | ||
| Martinc Registered user Username: Martinc Post Number: 13 Registered: 9-2006 |
Right Colleen, those SDA spin doctors like Lake need a Lewis Carroll to describe. |
