| Author |
Message |
Randyg
Registered user
Username: Randyg
Post Number: 446
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 4:35 pm: |     |
Bmorgan, like you I agree with much that is said here, but I also disagree with some. But I think that is okay, and its healthy.
I have appreciated Colleen's work on this forum now for 3 years. We don't always agree on approach, or methodology, but we agree that we are a brother and sister in Christ.
We share in common, a desire for truth.
We also share a desire for that truth to be known.
I don't think that we all need to be the same in our approach or our understanding. I think everybody here brings something unique and valuable to the discussion. I continue to appreciate the opportunity to participate. |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 1374
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 4:47 pm: | |
Thank you for your post Colleen, I don't mind telling everyone here, Colleen has heard me say it before so it will be old stuff, but if it wasn't for this website I would be completely alone in the position I am in, Thank God for the repetition because I am sure it had all been said before I arrived here, thank God for people like Gilbert and Jeremy, thank God for the faithful who take the time and know that there are other people who need to hear it.
Yes, it ring around tha rosy on a lot of it' but theres always something said that I hadn't though about even on the same subject.
I know I get tired and discouraged and down and feel like I'm not being validated and every time I do some one will come on here and encourage me and they don't even know they did it, but God knows.
River |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 1375
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 5:25 pm: | |
My day,
Woke up at 3:30. spent 15 minutes checking to see if I was alive, spent the next 15 minutes wondering why, spent the next 45 minutes in Bible study, wrote on the forum, shower, ate breakfast, read and wrote on the forum, spent 4 hours working for a multi billion dollar Corp. for peanuts, spent two hours painting a tractor, read forum, showered and dressed for church, spent an hour on the phone with about 30 call’s in between, sitting here complaining to you-ins about my day, will go to church early, playing music tonight, be back at 8:30 or so.
Oh, the retired life.
River |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 4217
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 6:15 pm: | |
Colleen,
I agree with some of what you say and disagree with other things.
I agree that adventism is exposed for what it really teaches.
I just do not have to rehash it. Others can, but I do not. When I do, I just get discouraged.
Now if a person asks me what God is doing for me today, I can write all day. But that is me. Each of us has a different job/work to do.
I truly love all of you, even when we disagree.
We truly have an awesome God.
Diana |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6681
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 7:34 pm: | |
Bmorgan, Perhaps I should have said that God knew from all eternity that we would be Adventists and that he would rescue us from it. My statement was based, as you suggested on Ephesians 2:10 as well as this: Psa 139:16 "…your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be."
Colleen |
Dale
Registered user
Username: Dale
Post Number: 15
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 8:10 pm: | |
I continually stand amazed that the SDA church has not renounced its history as error. The reason it continues to pump out the EGW books and promote her writings cannot be for any reason other than ignorance or purposeful deception—money and control. |
Agapetos
Registered user
Username: Agapetos
Post Number: 1011
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 7:16 am: | |
The Dammon thing is something I have not read into, and it is a bit sickening! I haven't had much desire to read into those things yet. Once the Gospel became clear and "Adventism" became clear in contrast, I think I was thoroughly done with Adventism and had little desire to examine it any more. Actually, today I still have difficulty reading through EGW passages even when in short quotes. They are suffocating!
However, at later times someone has shared something here, or while praying or thinking God has shown me something about my Adventist background, and at those times maybe it seems like I'm "revisiting" it. But it's not the same when He is with you.  Several times He's done this to uncover spiritual roots, misunderstandings, or unknown paradigms I had as a result of growing up Adventist.
One of the greatest benefits is the way He's led me (us) through the knowledge of the New Covenant and life by the Spirit instead of Law, and most blissful of all, the Sabbath-rest in Jesus! These are things that are sadly often not well known in mainstream Christianity, and I believe that our calling is not only to help our family in Adventism out of the darkness and into the light of His rest, but also to help mainstream Christians who know the Gospel but are still holding onto pieces of the fading glory of the Old Covenant.
In the same way Paul was able to speak to Jews on a unique level because of his zealousness for Judaism, and Justin Martyr was able to speak to Greeks well because he was one of them and had been in their philosophy. But not only that, Paul's writing affected Gentiles perhaps even more than Jews! And Justin Martyr's influence has gone well beyond the original Greek philosophers he debated with. (If I got that wrong about him, smack me upside the head, Jeremiah!)
Writing the article about throwing away the family altar (May/June Proclamation) has been kind of an eye-opener benchmark for me. It was around the beginning of the year that I started to realize the things that I had written in it. I realized them before, but not so succinctly. It has brought me face-to-face with the spirit of early Adventism, and the more that I see it, the more simple things become and the less time I am willing to spend being cordial.
That said, I want to be loving. I like to say that my goal is to lovingly go for the jugular. The person I'm talking to is far more valuable than mere information. But at the same time, Adventism is un-preparing people for the last day. There is so little time to waste. But God is wonderful in leading us in His steps of love...
Speaking of love, I've wanted to share this for awhile, but I really do feel that the forum here is changing. A year or two ago I remember more combative conversations or debates, and now it seems like people have less of a stomach for that and want to get back into brotherhood as quick as possible. It has become a more supportive environment, I think. Yeah, we all fly off once in awhile, and each one of us has our pet-doctrine soapboxes, but it seems like these things are gradually giving way more and more to the prominence of the Gospel. And there are so many new people on the forum that I have a hard time keeping track of who is who, and I feel bad for not greeting each one and reading each one's story!
I'm glad to have you all as a spiritual family, and I look forward to the day when things graduate beyond typing and reading for us! (that is, when I get to meet you folks)
It is wonderful to be tied together in Jesus, to be branches next to one another attached to the same Vine.
Drinking of that Vine and of His wine!
Ramone |
Patriar
Registered user
Username: Patriar
Post Number: 353
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 10:09 am: | |
Ramone:
You said this:
"Several times He's done this to uncover spiritual roots, misunderstandings, or unknown paradigms I had as a result of growing up Adventist. "
That is a beautiful way to describe the necessity of ***as the Lord leads*** revisiting (or visiting) these issues at all. Our paradigms and filters are so many and varied. Occasionally when I read through a section of Scripture (a great example is Gal. 5) I still get hung up on my old filters. I have to stick to what I KNOW is true and pray that God will remove my filters. One of the most powerful ways He does that is by showing me WHAT I learned wrong and HOW it is wrong. Then He walks me step by step into the Truth. Not everyone processes that way, but I am so thankful for a God who deals with individuals!
I wanted to tell you also that yesterday I was thinking through something you had posted on the other section. And I started thinking back to a year or two ago. I can't remember how long exactly, but I was very active on the forum when you first started posting here and I remember a very VERY different 'agapetos' than the one I see now.
I praise God for the work He has done and is continuing to do, in our lives!
Patria |
Patriar
Registered user
Username: Patriar
Post Number: 354
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 10:22 am: | |
Ramone:
It finally just occurred to me that perhaps it is ME who has changed! I don't know! But it's amazing to experience His joy and to recognize it in others.
Patria
(Message edited by patriar on August 30, 2007) |
Markmartin
Registered user
Username: Markmartin
Post Number: 14
Registered: 8-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 11:28 am: | |
Colleen,
You should put your 6676 post in the next issue of the magazine. It was excellent!
God bless,
Pastor Mark |
Ardyj
Registered user
Username: Ardyj
Post Number: 36
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 1:10 pm: | |
Colleen, that post was absolutely on target. I sat reading it through and must agree with it in its entirety.
You said, "We are "former Adventists" by God's sovereign decree. He chose us and called us and gave us a voice. We are the only people who truly know both sides of the picture. We are the ones who understand how the deception is based in fear and uncertainty.”
I say; who best to minister to one involved in the throes of any addiction but one who has been there, done that! It would appear Colleen, that you have set a challenge before us. God has called us for His message to be given to the ones in darkness.
I have been pondering over the Doctrine of Election for some time; listening to and reading in particular, John McArthur. I do not have a complete grasp on this and probably never will, but God has chosen me and you and everyone else on this forum and elsewhere who are truly seeking and searching and have found the true gospel of Jesus Christ. I am honored and humbled by the knowledge that God has chosen us for His mighty work.
May each one of you be blessed as you read, post, and lurk on this forum. God is working in each of our hearts. All glory and praise be to Him!
Ardyj |
Agapetos
Registered user
Username: Agapetos
Post Number: 1012
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 11:29 pm: | |
quote:Recounting and even discovering the real truth about Ellen and Adventist life (who else has boarding schools for their teenagers?), for example, help us to discover how we got our worldview and our assumptions.
What's that about boarding schools, Colleen? I'm curious.
And I second the motion that what you wrote should be in the next Proclamation! -- maybe in an "about the FAF Forum" section? |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1245
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Friday, August 31, 2007 - 8:41 am: | |
Colleen,
I also applaud your post #6676. Truly, our sovereign God placed us where we could actually experience, observe, and study the anti-Gospel heresies of Adventism. A special, sacred calling, indeed!
Dennis Fischer |
Loneviking
Registered user
Username: Loneviking
Post Number: 588
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 12:26 pm: | |
I just noticed something 'amazing' about this quote from early in this thread:
"Many of our people do not realise how firmly the foundation of our faith has been laid. My husband, Elder Joseph Bates, Father Pierce, [* older brethren among the pioneers are here thus reminiscently referred to. "Father Pierce" was Stephen Pierce, who served in ministerial and administrative work in the early days.] Elder [Hiram] Edson, and others who were keen, noble, and true, were among those who, after the passing of the time in 1844, searched for the truth as for hidden treasure. I met with them, and we studied and prayed earnestly. Often we remained together until late at night, and sometimes through the entire night, praying for light and studying the Word. Again and again these brethren came together to study the Bible, in order that they might know its meaning, and be prepared to teach it with power. When they came to the point in their study where they said, "we can do nothing more,' the Spirit of the Lord would come upon me, I would be taken off in vision, and a clear explanation of the passages we had been studying would be given me, with instruction as to how we were to labour and teach effectively. Thus light was given that helped us to understand the Scriptures in regard to Christ, His mission, and His priesthood. A line of truth extending from that time to the time when we shall enter the city of God, was made plain to me, and I gave to others the instruction that the Lord had given me.
--------------------------------------------
Why did these 'brethern' reach the point in their study where they could do nothing more? The answer is for the same reason that SDA's can't (and don't) do a true exegitical study of any part of the Bible. These brethern had an approach to the Bible that allowed them to make all sorts of applications and read into the text things that aren't there. An example of this would be the 'day for a year' out of Daniel 8. Or the conclusion that the 'veil' in Hebrews is referring ony to the first compartment.
This error was compounded by following William Millers 'proof-texting' method of stringing together texts that look (supeficially) as if they belong together. The problem is that many times these texts don't belong together and mean something entirely different when you do just a little bit of digging.
When you follow these two approaches, you wind up stuck! You wind up with conclusions that don't make sense in light of other verses of Scripture. You wind up with so many possibilites of meaning that trying to harmonize a topic becomes virtually impossible.
And then, instead of checking their methodology and making corrections,they relied on God to relay correcting messages through EGW. EGW was the one who showed them how to correctly interpret and apply what they were reading in the Bible to reach a doctrinal conclusion.
Implicit in this acceptance, is a low view of Scripture. Christ, in the gospels, claimed that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth. Christians have believed for centuries that this is done through God's written word. Instead, this group didn't find the Word sufficient and looked for their answers elsewhere.
So, the Bible must be read, studied and interpreted as EGW said. She provided the methodolgy and the answers to scriptural dilemnas upon which the pillars of the SDA church rest. There is no way that SDA's can say 'we are a people of the book', anymore than the Mormons or JW's.
Just some random thoughts for today.... |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 813
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 12:57 pm: | |
Loneviking, that is an excellent observation! You are so right.
Gilbert Jorgensen
It has been 162 Years, 10 Months, and 26 Days since October 22, 1844 |
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