| Author | Message | ||
| Jody Registered user Username: Jody Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2007 |
Hi my name is Jody and I am new to the list.I am no longer in the SDA church but many of my close family members still are.This of course keeps me on my toes and keeps me sharp as to what i believe.I must continually defend what I believe.Some family memebers believe that I am lost for leaving the SDA's and very confused.My grandmother once gave me some literauture explaining how people outside of her church were spiritually drunk.Apparently Sunday worship means that u side with Rome and are drunk on the wine of her adulteries. Recently I was asked to go to Germany on a Martin Luther tour with a group of SDA's (mainly Pastors)however I am not sure whether i should go or not.I don't think that SDA's really understand what the reformation was about.Thru my study of scripture and Church history I have become what one mite call a "Calvinist." To me the SDA Church is as far from Reformation theology as they can get,actually on many key issues they actually side with Rome.I find it bizarre that they would be interested in a man like Luther.I am not sure whether this would be an oppurtunity to influence them towards the truth or a chance for them to gang up on me with heresie. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 1011 Registered: 8-2004  |
Welcome to the forum!  The SDAs I knew liked to think of Luther as a hero of the faith. EGW lauded him and held him up as an example to the faithful in her book, The Great Controversy. One teacher I remember held Luther up as the one who gave people one oar to help them paddle up the stream of life (without which all would just go with the flow of the river and be lost)- salvation by faith. Then, according to this teacher, Wesley came along and provided the other oar - works according to faith. Finally, Ellen White came along and uncovered the 'present truth': we must have both these oars in order to row straight up the stream... otherwise we would just go in circles one direction or another. Never mind that with Jesus as the captain of our ship it's not our business to steer or row, but only to trust our Captain and follow Him. No idea whether you should go on this trip or not - your Heavenly Father will make that clear. Stick close to Him. He will give you opportunities for sharing what He has for the people around you whether they are SDA or not! Blessings, Mary | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4153 Registered: 3-2004  |
Jody, Welcome to FAF. Pray about going to Germany. Myself, I do not know if I could stomach hearing SDA talk especially about Luther. Diana | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 93 Registered: 5-2007 |
Wouldn't that be like an ex-mormon going on a historic trip to bolster mormonism with a bunch of active mormons? | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 143 Registered: 8-2005 |
Welcome, Jody! Even when I was devout SDA, Luther was a real hero of mine. Once I actually began reading his books, I found that he believed in the doctrines of Election and Original Sin. Most SDAs would be shocked by this as they have no respect for John Calvin at all. The only thing most SDAs know about Luther is the brief summary of the 'highlights' in the Great Controversy - and shockingly, not all of that is correct! There are a number of "what one might call Calvinists" on this forum. I am myself! Welcome! ISO | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6582 Registered: 12-2003  |
Ellen's claim that Adventists picked up the Reformation where Luther left off is just amazingly ridiculous. Adventism does not have its roots in the historic, apostolic, biblical church. It sprang from the heresy of Arianism in the 1840's, and it bears no resemblance to the church against which, Jesus promised, the gates of hell would not prevail. For Adventists to claim to be the only true church carrying on the torch Luther barely managed to light is just wrong. Adventism has no link to the historic church established in the NT. It has attempted to paste NT teachings on top of an Arian root—but if the root is the wrong root, the tree is not the true tree. The claim of perpetuating the Reformation is one more deception. It is totally false. Adventist theology bears no relationship to the gospel taught in the NT which God used Luther to bring back into focus! Colleen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6583 Registered: 12-2003 |
By the way, welcome, Jody! We're really glad to have you here! Colleen | ||
| Cw Registered user Username: Cw Post Number: 138 Registered: 4-2006  |
Welcome Jody. And Richard/Colleen, I haven't been here in awhile and just saw the new look. Very nice. CW | ||
| Jody Registered user Username: Jody Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2007 |
Yeah I read what Ellen White wrote in the Great Contoversy about Luther and if she was so inspired, why did she fail to mention the controversy over free will he had with Erasmus of Rotterdam?This was an essential part of the Reformation and where in all the Great Controversy is their any mention of Saint Augustine who is considered by most to be the greatest theologian between the time of Paul and Luther.Whoever that book was plagarized from wasn't a very good historian.I have a feeling that on this tour u will only be told what the SDA's want u to hear and they will skip over the truth.I must say however that if they begin to seriously study the Reformation God could lead them to the truth.SDA's do have an interest in Church history which next to scripture is most edifying and enlightening.The majority of local churches in my area have forgotten their history and thus are prone to new heresies which are really just old heresies.Since they don't know what the Church Fathers before have learned they are left to learn it for themselves or just simply left in darkness to the truth. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6592 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hey, Cw--it's awfully good to see you here again! I hope all is well for your and your family including your daughter! Jody, interesting points. I just want to say, though, that if people turned to the Bible and really asked God to teach them the truth, he would teach them. Even without personal knowledge of the church fathers, as important as they are, a person can know the truth about Jesus and salvation. Adventists veered off "the path" because they abandoned the clear words of Scripture and decided to invent interpretations that supported their biases. No doubt studying the Reformation would help them...but what they really need is the Bible. When anything takes the center of attention besides Jesus and His cross and His word, people can end up "off course". As former Adventists, I believe we have a special vulnerability to finding excellent theologians to help us understand the Bible, sometimes basing our beliefs primarily on the theologians' formulations rather than on the plain word of Scripture. That being said, it is very helpful to read good commentators. But our primary source material needs to be the Bible. Only there can we find the center of reality. Colleen | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 145 Registered: 8-2005 |
Actually, I found that SDAs don't really have an interest in church history at all. They are really only interested in church history insofar as it confirms a doctrine that they hold dear. If most SDAs really studied the Reformation they would soon realize (as I did) that they most assuredly are NOT the 'Inheritors of the Reformation' that they believe themselves to be. Reading the Bible for what it says rather than what we think is should say is the only way for the scales to fall from their eyes. I challenge any Adventist to read the book of Hebrews through 5 times in a row and then tell me that they really believe that Jesus began a work in 1844. ISO | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6595 Registered: 12-2003 |
Great challenge, ISO. By the way, how is your wife? Colleen | ||
| Jody Registered user Username: Jody Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2007 |
Colleen,I agree with what u r sayin,studying church history is definetely second to the study of the Word.I never learned the doctrines of Grace from history but was taught them of God.George Whitefield was once asked if he learned those doctrines from Calvin and his response was that he had been taught them by God. I always prefer a doctrine that is true rather than new.If it is a fairly new doctrine, say 1844 on then it is probably false,but if it can be traced back thru church history back to the Apostles then it is certainly true.God has given the Church great men thru history who have been given gifts of teaching and preaching,it is the height of arrogance not to read them,although we should always read them discerningly like the Bereans did in Acts 17.I agree with u and the reformers in the doctrine of sola scriptura (scripture alone)When we ask God to reveal the truth of his word to us he most certainly will Psalm 84:1. ISO u r probably right SDA's are only interested in so far as it relates to them proving something they believe.They study history the same way they study the Word.The proper method of study is called exegesis which means mining out of the scripture what it says.They use the method of eisegesis which means they put their doctrines into the scripture rather than getting them out of it. I agreee totally that they are not the inheriters of the reformation they think they are,although I believe God can reform them similarily the way he did the World Wide Church of God.I pray for this daily. BTW I am glad to hear we have some fellow Calvinists on the forum. | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 692 Registered: 4-2006  |
Dear Jody, welcome to the forums here, I pray that you will enjoy being with us and that you will be blessed richly here, so that you may bring glory to God, by witnessing about Him, being salt and light, amen. I just recently took a look at Calvinism from two different perspectives, one pro and one con. I can heartily recommend you these two videos on the subject: 1. Amazing Grace: The history and Theology of Calvinism: http://www.amazinggracedvd.com/ 2. What Love is This - Calvinism's misrepresentation of God: http://www.thebereancall.org/node/4723 May the grace and love of our Lord Jesus Christ, abound in you, and may you bear much fruit, your brother in Christ, Martin | ||
| Jody Registered user Username: Jody Post Number: 8 Registered: 7-2007 |
I already have the video "Amazing Grace" I highly reccomend it.It is a very well done video.A book that I read when i first started to explore Calvinism and wanted to know what it was is called "Debating Calvinism" written by James R. White (not to be confused with Ellen's husband)and Dave Hunt. When I read this book I was already convinced from scripture that election was a good sound doctrine.The book was helpful however. It allowed me to see both sides of the issues at hand.In the end I believe the truth won out.I am a convinced Calvinist. |
