| Author | Message | ||
| Cortney Registered user Username: Cortney Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2006 |
Sabbtath Means, Loyolty and alligiance to God A memorial of Creation It identifies the Creator,and his claim to reverence and worship above all others Thus,it identifies the follower, he was created by the Creator The Sabbath lies at the very foundation of worship,it teaches great truth,and no other institution does this It is an unchangable Law,even though Christ is our 'true sabbath rest'as written in the new testament It makes a believer trust and obey God, more so than other believers It's observance will make the followerr martyrs in the time of persecution,Sunday Laws Sabbath Blessings and rewards are given in observing the Sabbath,people who don't keep the Sabbath miss out on blessing It identifies the 'true remnant'read about in the book of Revealations,though Christ gave us his commandants in the new testament to love the Lord your God with all your heart,mind and soul and to love your neighber as yourself, all else is complete in these laws It's observance identifies the followers split fron pagan Rome and apostate churches It is a seal between the follower and God It keeps the follower from recieving the 'mark of the beast' It a source of divine authority between follower and God It was kept by Adam and Eve The followers will be especially distinguished,by their regard of keeping the Sabbath,since this is a sign of His creative power and witness to his claim upon man's reverance and homage Christ's death did not annull Sabbath keeping,as the 'record' shows I got these quotes and answers from The Great Contrversy. Wow the Sabbath is really the central core of the SDA church.I wish EGW would have written with this much zeal and confidence about Jesus.Jesus is our Sabbath Rest.The Holy Spirit is our Seal,God's knows our heart wherin the Holy Spirit dwells.These EGW 'opinion' and 'theories' and 'reasonings' take away the true message and meaning of the gospel.Align yourself with Jesus, not th Sabbath.I hope we will all take time out of our busy day to pray for Adventists. | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 550 Registered: 5-2007 |
They have actually made an "idol" of the Sabbath. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 585 Registered: 11-2005 |
Cortney, that is a truly amazing list. and to think, this is just one of the Ten Commandments! Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Pastor2move Registered user Username: Pastor2move Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2007 |
I have come to believe that either "Jesus is your Sabbath, or the Sabbath is your Jesus" 2move | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 586 Registered: 11-2005 |
It is even more amazing when one realizes that nowhere do they state precisely how to "observe" the Sabbath! And if they truly believe it is a moral law, can anyone provide a case where a Seventh-day Adventist church disciplined a member for breaking the 4th commandment? When it comes to what their prophet, Ellen White, wrote about the specifics of how to "keep" the Sabbath they just rationalize and "blow off" the parts that they don't want to follow.
Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 587 Registered: 11-2005 |
And then of course there is "marriage", the root of all evil.
And many times there is entirely too much singing in worship services Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 873 Registered: 1-2003 |
How many times have I seen people in church give testimony about THEMSELVES -how they lost a job for the sabbath, etc. It's like a big badge of honor to sacrifice for the Sabbath! Of course EVERYONE of them always gets a so-called better job! (Even if in reality it isn't...they have to pretend to be rewarded!) | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 588 Registered: 11-2005 |
Pastor2move, that is a really profound statement! As Adventism is so fond of saying about Adventism vs. Mormonism. The first one is genuine, the second is the counterfeit. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 752 Registered: 6-2006  |
Gilbert, That's what I say! "I have come to believe that either "Jesus is your Sabbath, or the Sabbath is your Jesus". WOW!!! Preach it Pastor!  Thanks for that. Leigh Anne | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1218 Registered: 4-2000  |
Gilbert, In yesteryear, my grandmother was coerced into apologizing to her SDA church family (in western North Dakota) for wearing an expensive dress with a matching handbag. Yes, she actually had to get up and apologize with tears publicly in church. This action, on her part, safeguarded her membership. Historically, it has usually been the smaller SDA churches that get this personal. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Jamundson Registered user Username: Jamundson Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2007 |
I was astounded by the quote by EGW to restrain singing. -------------------------------------------------- quote: "Singing should not be allowed to divert the mind from the hours of devotion. If one must be neglected, let it be the singing. It is one of the great temptations of the present age to carry the practice of music to extremes, to make a great deal more of music than of prayer. Many souls have been ruined here. When the Spirit of God is arousing the conscience and convicting of sin, Satan suggests a singing exercise or a singing school, which, being conducted in a light and trifling manner, results in banishing seriousness, and quenching all desire for the Spirit of God. Thus the door of the heart, which was about to be opened to Jesus, is closed and barricaded with pride and stubbornness, in many cases never again to be opened. "By the temptations attending these singing exercises, many who were once really converted to the truth have been led to separate themselves from God. They have chosen singing before prayer, attending singing schools in preference to religious meetings, until the truth no longer exerts its sanctifying power upon their souls. Such singing is an offense to God." (Review and Herald, July 24, 1883) -------------------------------------------------- A quick search of the OT reveals scores of texts celebrating God in song, musical instruments and psalms of praise. One of the most remarkable events in the OT concerning singing is the following : 2 Chronicles 20:18 Jehoshaphat bowed with his face to the ground, and all the people of Judah and Jerusalem fell down in worship before the LORD. 19 Then some Levites from the Kohathites and Korahites stood up and praised the LORD, the God of Israel, with very loud voice. 20 Early in the morning they left for the Desert of Tekoa. As they set out, Jehoshaphat stood and said, "Listen to me, Judah and people of Jerusalem! Have faith in the LORD your God and you will be upheld; have faith in his prophets and you will be successful." 21 After consulting the people, Jehoshaphat appointed men to sing to the LORD and to praise him for the splendor of his [d] holiness as they went out at the head of the army, saying: "Give thanks to the LORD, for his love endures forever." 22 As they began to sing and praise, the LORD set ambushes against the men of Ammon and Moab and Mount Seir who were invading Judah, and they were defeated -------------------------------------------------- The New Covenant application of this I believe is songs and praises to Christ the Savior is a tremendous weapon in spiritual warfare. 1 Chronicles 16:23 Sing to the LORD, all the earth; proclaim his salvation day after day (NIV) | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 138 Registered: 7-2007 |
It's the difference between reading the Bible for oneself and letting Ellen White be the "glasses" for interpreting it. (That reminds me of the Mormon prophet's "magical spectacles" that he supposedly used to get "revalation" from God or his angel Moroni. Actually they were "seeing stones" that he had used in the past before starting his religion, to try to discover treasure.) Anyway, if an Adventist reads the Bible only (without Ellen White's "magical spectacles,") they see that Genesis 2:2,3 says that only GOD rested after creation. It doesn't say there, that it was commanded as a Sabbath for man to keep - it wasn't even called a "Sabbath" there! Next they'll see that the first time it's commanded for anyone to KEEP as a Sabbath, is when it's given to Israel when they were given the manna in Exodus 16:23-29 before they arrived at Sinai. (No wonder God said "remember." That particular law had already been given along with the manna.) Adventists get confused because Exodus 20:11 gives as the reason why God told them to keep the Sabbath; the fact that God created the world in six days. If they turned to Deuteronomy 5, where it repeats the Ten Commandments, they would see a totally different reason why they were to keep the Sabbath. Both are very powerful reasons - showing God's power and authority! This one says: Deuteronomy 5:15 "And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day." (It's like He's saying: "I'm God, so obey Me!") It was a SIGN between God and Israel - Exodus 31:13. They would see that the Sabbath was part of the Ten Commandments which was the covenant given at Mount Sinai. (Deuteronomy 5:2,3) and is now obsolete. (Hebrews 8:13) They would read Deuteronomy 4:13 which tells EXACTLY what that covenant is: "the Ten Commandments." And they would see how the apostle Paul contrasts the two covenants (old and new) in Galatians 4:24-26. Anyway, they would study themselves right out of the Seventh-day Adventist church. It takes the power of the Holy Spirit to get out of a false religion though. | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2007 |
Yes they would see all of this if they would take off those ridiculous EGW spectacles. My Mother-in-law was in town this past weekend and My wife started telling her that we are not saved by keeping the Sabbath. Well my MIL got all heated up and started quoted the same old worn out prooftexted verses. So I had her take out her bible and showed her all the verses mentioned in Asurprise's post. She came back with Revelation 14:12 These are the Saints the ones who keep the Commandments of God, and the Testimony of Jesus Christ. So I showed her 1 John 3:22-24 That the commandment of God is that we believe in the name of Jesus Christ and love one another. And some other several verses related to John's epistles (nomos, and entole). She just said those are additional commandments. She got angry and said who has been talking to you? I said the Holy Spirit. She said that nothing is going to change her mind and take her away from the truth. All I could say is be careful and keep studying the bible with an open heart and mind. | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 555 Registered: 5-2007 |
That is so typical of an Adventist reaction, Pnoga. They won't take off the EGW spectacles. EGW's writings have fear built in them. She has even wrote about an "Omega Apostacy" where people in the church disregard her writings. So they are afraid. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6555 Registered: 12-2003  |
2move, great quote re: the Sabbath and Jesus! Gilbert, I had not seen those EGW quotes re: singing. It's ironic; I don't know anyone besides Mormons who make such a big deal about music performance! It has been the Adventist academies' typical stance to see the music groups as their sanctified answer to public schools' football/sports teams. The music groups have been their greatest recruiting tools. It was always the band or choirs that went on the extended tours to far-flung schools across the conference—sometimes, with special permission, even to acadmies across the conference lines—to recruit new students. But in church—I have marvelled that the extended praise times in church now are so different, so alive, so much better than the perfunctory hymns of Adventism. In fact, on the occasions when there were extended song services, for example during vespers, etc., I hated it. It always felt hard to sing, tiring, and tedious. The performances of "special music" were better—but group praise just never "got off the ground" for me. "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God" (Col 3:16). Colleen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 140 Registered: 7-2007 |
There's not much to praise with the "god" of Adventism. Their "god" is an investigator in heaven - a "god" of the old covenant; just looking for an opportunity to go WHAM! and smash them like bugs! | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 589 Registered: 11-2005 |
Pnoga, what an amazing testimony! I am so proud of you. No wonder she was all flustered. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 974 Registered: 10-2002  |
Pastor2Move, I'm floored by that statement. Very profound and to the point. God is awesome! He is our Sabbath! | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 11 Registered: 1-2007 |
Thanks Jorgfe. Can everyone please pray for me tonight? Tonight is the bible study with My Brother-in-Law (Elder SDA) at my house. He is always referring to the EGW books. Last week during our study he made a comment about EGW, and I said that I'm not down with EGW. he said you cannot be an SDA if you are not for the Spirit of Prophecy. I said that the Bible is the Spirit of Prophecy and that the bible is all I need to learn about God's love and will for me. I'm trying my best to not say anything unless I feel it is God's will for me to say it. I am so thankful to God that he has answered my prayers and revealed his truth to me. I was shocked that the truth was not the SDA doctrine, but I felt such a Joy to see what Jesus has truly done for me,for all of us. The true God of the Bible is so loving and merciful towards us. I cried and was joyful everytime God revealed more to me from His Word. On the other hand I am so heartbroken for my family and friends who are still trapped in the darkness. I pray that God will use me for his will to free as many as He can from that darkness, fear, and emptiness. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 142 Registered: 7-2007 |
I'm praying. The thing that convinced me was finding out that Ellen White was a false prophet - that her words contridicted the Bible. She has so MANY times. Here are a few. 1. She says that the Sabbath is the seal of God, but the Bible says the Holy Spirit is (Eph. 1:13) 2. She says that Jesus didn't go into the Most Holy Place until 1844, but the Bible says that He did already. (Heb. 6:19,20; Heb. 9:12; Heb. 10:19,20) and if those texts aren't clear enough for them, here's one that would remove all doubt! Hebrews 10:12 says that Jesus sat down at the right hand of God. What place could be holier than where God is?! 3. In her book "Patriarchs and Prophets" in the chapter "After the Flood" Ellen White quoted Genesis 9:3 where God told Noah that "every moving thing that lives shall be food for you." In her next sentence EGW says that God gave Noah the "clean beasts" to eat that had been preserved in the ark. 4. And then the is the fact that she said that no one should say they are saved when the Bible says in Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Tim. 1:9 & Titus 3:5 (speaking to Christians) that "you have been saved." In fact the Bible indicates that we can know it by the Seal and guarantee of the Holy Spirit in our hearts (Eph. 1:13,14; 2 Cor. 5:5) 5. And then the little thing that first got me to begin wondering if Ellen White was a false prophet. (it took more than this to convince me, but this is what got it started) This was concerning "Michael the archangel" and Daniel 10:13 says that Michael is "one of the chief princes." Anyway, I hope this helps. | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 90 Registered: 7-2007 |
Iam apalled at that ellen g white quote about singing. Praising the Lord in song brings His presence to abide in our praise. How is that seperating one from Him? I take it that was inspired by demons of course because the devil wants the praise since the beginning of time. Great quote 2move. That Sabbath being Jesus quote puts the whole sda sabbath thing into persepctive. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 593 Registered: 11-2005 |
Pnoga, I like the reply that a head elder who was teaching last fall's 1844/IJ Adult Lesson Study made, when one of the class members began to gush about how Ellen White brought such meaning to her life. His response, as teacher for the class, was, "Well, She doesn't do anything for me." Most of us nodded our heads in agreement. That is a great reply! Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6564 Registered: 12-2003 |
Pnoga, I'm praying for your study. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4160 Registered: 3-2004  |
I have to comment about the singing statements. When I was in Laguna Beach for the Celebrate Recovery conference we sang. Oh, did we sing. the songs all praised God. One of my favorites is the one that talks about the road to recovery in Jesus. One of our church music directors was there as he is a recovering alcoholic. He was sitting in the balcony at the back. He said he watched as the people raised their hands in praise to Jesus as they sang. The music was beautiful and uplifted God in every sentence and word. I have learned to raise my arms in prayer with song to Jesus when I sing. Singing prepared me to listen and to learn. I really like the Bible quotes Jamundson has. That is how we sing in church and at our Celebrate Recovery meetings. I cried as I sang, in joy, because our God is so awesome. I know I was not the only one. Diana | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 85 Registered: 6-2007 |
Regarding adventists and singing. I was on the worship committee for over a year in my last SDA church. The purpose of this committee was to "freshen up" the worship service and add a little variety. I tried in vain for over a year to add some simple contemporary praise songs. I was met with absolute resistance. I will never forget one of the elders saying to me.... Laurie, we are not going to sing those songs you are talking about, the ones where we tell Jesus we love him, he is not our lover. Those songs do nothing but stir up emotion. Unbelievable! We are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul and mind, but we are not supposed to show emotion in singing or tell Him we love Him. I resigned from that committee very shortly after that comment. Laurie | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 413 Registered: 6-2005 |
Laurie, how awful! I am just sitting here reading the posts from you and Diana re music with tears running down my face. I am so grateful. Jesus, I am so grateful! Jesus, thank you for setting me free. I used to hate song service. Even with a good "worship leader", who put carefully screend contemporary songs on the overhead, I hated it. I don't have a good voice, and frankly I got bored with the repitition of some songs. My son pointed out that at our new church we dont have song service, we have worship! "Worship in Song" is not a title, it is a corporate act, and it ushers us into the presence of God each week. The quality of my voice has little consequence. I cannot believe how awesome it is to worship with other believers here on this earth. It's like God gives us a preview of heaven. Carol2 and I from this forum worshipped together today with the rest of the church body. Then the preacher got up and tried to preach from Isaiah 6. He tried to say the words, "Holy, Holy, Holy," from the Isaiah quote, and he just kept choking up. He could not talk through that scene as described in the Bible. He was overcome with worship. We were deeply moved as a chruch body. Now that is preaching! That is worship. Did I say I am grateful to be free? It just gets better. Lori | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6591 Registered: 12-2003 |
Laurie, that IS awful! It is so telling that they did not sing songs expressing love for Jesus. I remember hearing similar remarks in the past, too--disparaging comments about not treating Jesus as a lover... Sigh. Lori, I understand. What a wonderful experience you had today! I agree..."It just gets better." Knowing Jesus is so different from the emotional experiences that used to mark academy/college "weeks of prayer". Those faded...knowing Jesus deepens and does not go away. It's the most amazing reality. Colleen |
