| Author | Message | ||
| Pastor2move Registered user Username: Pastor2move Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2007 |
I have written the following as an exercise to think through the facts about my church's history and beliefs, and about E G White. I want to come to a simple and reasonable conclusion about the disturbing new information I have been studying. I am an SDA pastor who is on a journey out of the church. In a certain sense I am already out, that is, the scales are off of my eyes. I welcome your constructive criticism and any other help you can give. From what I have read it seems clear that Ellen White, while claiming to have the gift of prophecy was involved in fanaticism. She was hysterical and made several false predictions. None of her supposed prophecies contain any unique or original material, All of it can be shown to have been borrowed from others. She never contributed any new understanding about anything, but always parroted the ideas of those she was around. In the mid 1840s EGW was a mentally and emotionally unstable young woman in very poor health. These were hysterical times in the religious life of that day. She herself was a victim of hysteria. She and others claimed that she had been given the gift of prophecy because she had these episodes of seeing things, of going off into a trance or vision. Her visions began in December 1844, and one of her first visions was to instruct the people that the door of salvation, or probation was to remain closed to the world and those who had renounced the message of the Second Advent taking place in October of 1844. This vision reinstated the teaching that probation had closed for everyone except the Advent people on October 22, 1844. She and those with her continued to cling to this false view for another 6 years. In addition she made unfulfilled and false predictions during that time having to do with the Advent of Christ. Can anyone point to any significant truth that she presented during this time? Anything that would indicate that she was a true prophet? But, If she made false predictions and behaved like a false prophet at the beginning of her career, at what point did she become a true prophet? Denial runs like a course of bricks through the history of Adventism. denial and then deception. What really happened way back then? Well you say, a large group of people believed and expected Jesus to come on October 22, 1844, and He did not come. What did they do? Most of them, actually almost all of them within a very short time decided that they had been completely mistaken in their understanding of the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, and they went back to their old churches or stayed home. But they all gave up their hope in the October 22 prediction. All that is except for a very small group that could not believe that they had been wrong. After all, it had been so exciting, such a wonderful prospect, such times of sweet Christian fellowship, such impressive gatherings of people. How could it be wrong when it felt so right? But the whole idea of predicting the very time when Christ would come goes directly against the Word of Christ Himself! Jesus said, no one knows the day or the hour. So who concocted the whole Advent plot and prophetic scenario, God, or the Devil? The remaining group believed that it was God and that they had the confirmation in the visions of a 17 year old girl. Was this deliverance from their disappointment or escape into denial? In order to maintain the illusion of the wonderful experience they had in the Millerite movement, they evolved the investigative judgment in heaven teaching. Interestingly enough the man who put it together soon abandoned it, but it was affirmed by Ellen Harmon. And the denials have continued, and they have strained the credulity of honest and informed people. James and Ellen White denied that any books had been published by EGW before the 1851 Experience and Views. The publishers deny that any parts of the earlier books were left out of the book Early Writings. In this book Ellen White denies being involved in the hysterical fanaticism of 1845 through 1850. They certainly deny that they believed the door of salvation was closed for nearly seven years and that the time of trouble was begun during that time and many false predictions were made. They were still trying to ride their Millerite high, but it was not going to work. During this time it might be said of them that they were so distracted with heavenly prospects, that they were of no earthly good, and were actually a danger to others and to themselves. Ellen White denies getting any of her material from other sources. She claims that God showed her everything. Research has shown that this is a barefaced lie. The church no longer denies that she borrowed or plagiarized(stole) other people's work and then sold it as her own. But they continue to deny that she lied about it. What is clear is that Ellen and James White became religious hucksters of the first order, and the church continues to prey on ignorant and simple minded people. It is so hypocritical that EGW was railing against the Sunday churches while at the same time she was stealing the best that their writers had to offer. If they were all lost and of the Devil, why would you want to steal their best thoughts? Because you could not come up with any of your own. Evidently God was not telling her much. Seventh-day Adventism appeals to some people at a certain point in their development. It represents specificity It is a security blanket, a blankie, a nuk, a binky. At some point you are supposed to grow up into your full stature of men and women in Christ. Can you do that leaning on the crutch of EGW? Letting her be the filter for all that you are willing to think, learn, and believe? It also plays to human paranoia and pride. It offers a compelling illusion of the future. It is pipe dream theology with self subtly at the center. It is very simply, paranoia. Adventists are afflicted with a twisted Bible EGW paranoia. This all makes me think that Ellen, an isolated sickly child, was playing a game of let's pretend. She could play the role, work the masquerade. She did have these spells that seemed to get her a great deal of attention. Why not adopt the role of a visionary? She merely mimicked what others were presenting in her visionary revelations, but it seemed to work with some people. And if it did not work with some, she could denounce them with her new found shaman power. She could play on people's guilt and fear. She could see that her visions gave her power with a certain class of people, and her partner could see this and also the financial possibilities. Think carefully through this sequence of events. EGW condemned the world and all other non Adventist Christians as lost for not accepting the 1844 date, and the prediction that Jesus would come physically on that date. Which He did not, and the world was right this time, and EGW was wrong. Then she changed her mind about what had happened on that date, and said that they all continued to be lost for not accepting that the investigative judgment had started on that date, which was something they had never had the opportunity to hear in the first place. Can the church honestly claim that this is how the gift of prophecy operated in Biblical times? It must be tough to be out of the group, and lost for not knowing what was predicted until EGW made up her mind what it was that had been predicted, and then she might change her mind tomorrow. When did Bible prophets ever claim the right to cover up failed prophecies? What is the difference between EGW's failed prophecies and those of the JW's relating to Christ's return in 1914 and 1975? Adventism is also a pencil that has been sharpened too sharp. A knife too finely honed. Her edge will not hold up under use. Her main unique doctrines and her Apocalyptic package offer specificity and a compelling scenario, but at what price? Ignoring historical errors, Using proof text theology, and ignoring the texts that do not agree with your position; using another authority outside of the scriptures; She takes protestant presuppositions to extremes, and does the world the service of exposing some of them as remnants of Judaism that the church reincorporated in the early centuries. Organized religion could not handle Christians having true freedom in Christ and still control them. So she introduced taboos and rituals again. Ironically the Adventism that villifies the Roman Church cannot escape being like her. She is perhaps more like her than her other so called protestant daughters. Notice the following parallels. Adventists share with papists the following theological threads. They both have a garbled works oriented gospel. They both operate from the perspective of an incomplete atonement on the cross. Adventists have the investigative judgment. Romists have the Mass. Both have an authority outside of the scriptures that in actual practice is treated as though it is infallible. Adventists have E G White, and Catholics have the Pope and tradition. Both make the keeping of a particular day of worship the mark of their power and authority. Both prey on the fear and ignorance of simple people. Both use guilt and paranoia to get people to do what they want. Both are reincarnations of Judaism. | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 420 Registered: 8-2006 |
Welcome, Pastor. It's disturbing when you see the truth about Adventism and EGW in all it's simplicity, isn't it? You are welcome here to work through, write, and share your story. I will pray for you. Susan | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 579 Registered: 11-2005 |
I think you have a good grasp of her charades. Some useful links to complement your research are: http://www.truthorfables.com/The_Desirer_of_Wages.htm http://www.ellenwhite.org/egw25.htm http://www.ellenwhite.org/canright/can11.htm http://www.truthorfables.com/EGW_Will.htm http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ While the obfuscation that her theology produces gets a lot of "air play", and is easy for the White Estate and Seventh-day Adventist Church to respond to in a way that sympathizers will find something to "salve" their concerns with, I think the "soft underbelly" of this whole fraud is the financial side and the White's preoccupation with profit. Ellen even demonstrated a remarkably lucid understanding of how to "manipulate" the "SDA financial markets." Imagine if the SDA laity were fully aware of the Whute's unsavory financial dealings. It would cause an immediate visceral reaction as everyone reacted by tightly gripping their wallets. A review of her theology would come next. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Robby Registered user Username: Robby Post Number: 11 Registered: 2-2006 |
From a SDA PK, welcome pastor. It's obvious that you are a good communicator... your words are well placed and succinct. You hit the target on the bull's eye. I will pray for you. Your world is being shaken to it’s very core. But He will be with you now like never before. I’ve seen this in my own life. In His Grace, Robby | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 421 Registered: 8-2006 |
My husband and I were talking with my mother-in-law this morning about Jesus and the topic came up that I am a former SDA. My MIL, who is Baptist, said she always was told and thought that SDA's were not any different from Baptists except they go to church on Saturday. My husband and I quickly corrected her. When I logged on and saw your post, Pastor, I got my portable printer out and printed your succint, accurate post regarding Adventism. My MIL read it, shaking her head as doing so, and said "This is so interesting. I had no idea, do they REALLY believe that stuff?" When God removes the scales from our eyes, it is by a miracle releasing us from the spiritual stronghold of Adventism. Stay here and there will be good advice, and many prayers. May God bless you! Susan | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 683 Registered: 4-2006  |
Welcome Pastor2move, May you find lot of help and comfort here. In the strong hand of the Lord, Martin | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 749 Registered: 6-2006  |
Welcome Pastor! Glad you're here. I really appreciate your post. My dear brother-in-law is an SDA pastor, who I believe is aware of the true simple gospel, but comes from a very active and conservative SDA family. My hopes for him are that the scales will fall off his eyes like they have yours. I'm really looking forward to reading more from you! Leigh Anne | ||
| Blessed Registered user Username: Blessed Post Number: 72 Registered: 1-2007 |
Welcome Pastor, You articulated so well what you have learned on this journey. I look forward to reading more of your thoughts. Blessed | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 547 Registered: 5-2007 |
Welcome, Pastor. Your asessment of Adventism is right on the money. That's exactly what my opinion is of it. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1283 Registered: 9-2006  |
Pastor, I personally have a deep respect for someone who would take up the responsibility to Pastor a flock, big or small. I want to remind you of the tremendous responsibily of that undertaking. You are coming into truth here and I beg you to see it through, look into the word of God like never before, pray as never before and look at the truth of Adventism, Ellen White and the IJ, for yourself, your family and those that God might call on you to lead. I had intended to write in a few days about the grave responsibility of the Pastors, teachers, and church leaders who are involved in this heresy and the Pastor above all has the greatest responsibility, his flock looks to him to guide them in all manner of things from birth to death. I guess this is good a place to start my thoughts on the subject as any. I wanted to speak to you bluntly and forth rightly just as I would speak to my own Pastor. What you have put to pin (or keyboard) is pretty much along the lines of conclusions I myself have come to. I encourage you to read the stories on the front of this website if you haven't done so already. I have about 18 Adventist friends whose Pastors are not leading them, have not led them into truth of Gods word, but into the falsehood of Ellen G. White and the IJ. These people have no assurance of salvation what-so-ever. Pastor, they groan under the load, they make brick without straw, no bread to eat at the end of the long day and it grieves me and I have a hard time finding a good thought in my heart for the Pastors that see the truth, but refuse to teach it and go on teaching Adventism for fear of losing a position or a living. This may sting a little but I write from the heart, I encourage you to perhaps communicate with Dale Ratzlaff, Mark Martin, Colleen and Richard Tinker if you feel the need, no use going this alone. And you will find loving friends on this forum that will love you and pray for you any time. And with that, welcome to this forum. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6549 Registered: 12-2003  |
Welcome, Pastor! I'm so glad you've joined us. Your assesment is articulate and exact. You have, indeed, seen the truth—and God is always in the truth. When He asks us to follow Him, the obedience is often painful and daunting, but there is also excitement and freedom in the obedience. I remember so clearly the conflicted feelings I had as we decided Adventism was unredeemable and false to the core. I felt I was losing myself and the regard of everyone I knew. At the same time, Jesus was more real to me than He had ever been. I knew that in order to stay intimate with Him, I had to go wherever He led. I realized that the church was the "world" which God was calling me to leave. I would never have imagined that The Church was really that oft-mentioned "world" we were called to leave! I realized Jesus was asking me to surrender to Him everything that was my identity—my career, my friends, my extended family—everything that was "me" including the most central core of my identity: Adventist. I was more "Adventist" than "American". When I was faced with the complete surrender God was asking of me, I remember weeping in loss and grief. I also clearly remember how the Lord Jesus assured me that, as the old Shaker Hymn "Simple Gifts" said, He was turning me 'round until I came "round right", and when He was done turning me 'round, I would find myself in "the valley of love and delight". Pastor, the Lord Jesus keeps His promises. They are the ONLY sure things in all the universe. He leads us to the truth; He gives us the courage and the strength to see and know the truth, and once we know what is real, it is God Himself who clothes us in His strength and transforms us by His Spirit, walking with us into integrity so our behavior matches our beliefs. He will absolutely turn you 'round right and plant your feet firmly in the "valley of love and delight". There is nothing more profoundly disorienting and even terrifying than leaving Adventism and simultaneously one's career and reputation. But there is nothing more profoundly joyous than going where God takes you. He is already in the future. He is walking with you into what is to you unknown but is to Him already an accomplished fact. He will provide everything you need. He has promised! I will be praying for you. Colleen | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 973 Registered: 10-2002  |
Pastor! Welcome to the forum from a fourth-generation Adventist (now a former) living in Osaka, Japan! I grew up in Silver Spring and attended LaSierra University. Thank you for sharing your very targeted assessment of the state of things in Adventism. Keep going and following God as He shows you all these things, even if they take a painful whack at things we once held as our cherished truths or heritage. Although I left Adventism officially in 2002, in the last several months I've been rocked by four understandings: 1) Adventism did not understand the Gospel of God's grace (and justification and righteousness by faith) from its very outset and foundation, and did not even seem to use the phrases of the Gospel until the 1888 incident. Thus even the phrases of the Gospel were not welcome in Adventism for its first 40+ years, the time in which all its major doctrines were formed. 2) People who criticized these new gospel-less Adventist "truths" were considered "Babylon" and "apostate" and "fallen", and were said to be condemned and guilty of blood on their hands. They were said to be worshiping Satan-impersonating Christ. Thus not only did the early Adventists not have the Gospel, but in their hearts and words they persecuted those who DID have the Gospel and who held to the Gospel instead of following the Adventist "truths". 3) Many/most of these new "truths" were either introduced or confirmed (more often confirmed) by 'angelic' revelations, or from a spiritual 'guide'. These truths and condemnations again did not know the Gospel (to which the Holy Spirit and all true heavenly witnesses testify), but instead these 'angelic' guides spoke against those who held to the Gospel, and these guides preached things that underminded the true Gospel of God's grace, which is by faith. In sum, 1) They built their foundation without the Gospel 2) They condemned those who did have the Gospel 3) 'Angels' confirmed these things In short, this frighteningly and clearly adds up to Paul's warning of Galatians chapter one -- that any spirit which speaks a different Gospel is not the Holy Spirit, nor an angel of God, but is a condemned and fallen angel. The fourth point is something I've been coming to realize more clearly in recent months: 4) Adventism built its foundation on eschatology and interpreting prophecy, yet Adventism did not know the Gospel and built a theology that worked against the Gospel. The book of Revelation (and the Bible itself) testifies to Jesus Christ and His finished work of salvation. It shows that we are saved by being clothed with His righteousness, not with our own. Thus the ONLY preparation for the "end times" is the Gospel! The only way is by resting in Jesus Christ as our righteousness. Because Adventist eschatology negates the Gospel, it is effectively UN-PREPARING people for the end, by teaching them to put their trust in a day (and a false prophet) instead of in a Man -- the Son of Man. It actively UN-DOES peoples' trust in Christ's finished work and teaches them that they need more than faith, more than Jesus, in order to survive the end (and even that is a "maybe" because you can't be sure). If we believe that the end will be a serious time of difficulty for everyone who lives on earth, then we must act responsibly and preach the only way through -- the Gospel of Jesus Christ, that He is our awesome salvation and our "rest" amidst the troubles of the world! (see Psalm 91). Anyway, I thought I'd share that to hopefully aide in putting things in perspective. God bless you richly in His love as He continues to guide you and lead you in all your ways, and as He fills you with His heart for the freedom and rest of His beloved children, especially His children caught in confusion in Adventism! in His love, Ramone Romero | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 210 Registered: 10-2006 |
Pastor, Take heart and have faith in Jesus. I know more than one (SDA pastor) in your current position. Read your Bible, leave all else behind. Compare Jesus' words with everything else, and go with Him! Then, pray...oh yeah, you will get answers! steve | ||
| Markmartin Registered user Username: Markmartin Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2007 |
Hey,fellow pastor! Wow, it sounds like you've been uncovering a lot of stuff, and that can be a very unsettling process. I can't think of one of EGW's prophecies that came true, except, to loosely paraphrase it, that her writings would be attacked. It doesn't take the gift of prophecy to see that would be a great way to generally cover all your bases for generations to come. Incidentally, Joseph Smith is reported to have said something similar to this. If I can be of any help, let me know. Pastor Mark | ||
| Jrossb Registered user Username: Jrossb Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2007 |
Pastor, Thanks for sharing your recent story via your post. most of us have been there and done that to some degree. Interstingly the organization has been at it for 150 years. The simple scriptural Gospel has been continually distorted via them and others. Congratulations for perservering and starting to sort through the religious maze. I heartily endorse the other posts. As we keep assisting each other the Holy Spirit will assist us to a clearer understanding. Stay strong in the faith - the best is yet to come. JRossB | ||
| Pastor2move Registered user Username: Pastor2move Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2007 |
Hi Everyone, Thanks so much for all of your encouraging words. I have been studying my way out of Adventism for about two and one half years now. I am still employed as a pastor for the church, but I do not know how long that will continue. I have spoken to brother Dale and others about my situation. I Have read widely on the internet and in books about EGW and the church, and have shared what I have learned with many of my church members. I have also presented many of these things discreetly from the pulpit. It is tragic how people accept a belief system and then stop thinking, and refuse to think again. I am trying to get my people to think again and test anew what they believe from the scriptures, but most are not willing to do this. It is amazing how people who do not believe in the IJ EGW and other SDA teachings do not have the courage to leave and find a fellowship that is built on the gospel. One of my members who knows, keeps asking Where would I go? I would like to hear from you folk some possible answers to this question. I have not figured out where I am going, but I know that I cannot stay much longer. 2move | ||
| Lucybugg Registered user Username: Lucybugg Post Number: 68 Registered: 2-2007 |
Where would I go? That's the question my mother asked the Lord when he told her to leave. She quit attending church for a while and then finally asked the Lord if she could go back to that church because she needed to be somewhere. He allowed her to do so, but she attends sporadically, usually just when my nephew is there for the weekend. I asked the Lord the same question when he told us to leave, and he didn't answer right away. In fact, we didn't start attending another church until June of this year. One day an agonizing, wrenching feeling of loss and emptiness washed over me, and I cried out to the Lord saying...Lord I need to be with believers, I need that fellowship! Please tell me where I should go.He told me, and that's how we came to be at this current church. I guess my point is only the Lord has the answer to..where would I go.... You are in my prayers! | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 145 Registered: 5-2007  |
Dear Brother 2move, First, I would like to welcome you to this forum. Your sharing of what you have been learning concerning SDA beliefs can only be by the leading of the Holy Spirit. It has been my experience that nobody has ever discovered the true message of Jesus Christ by my words alone. I am always overwhelmed when a pastor turns away from the SDA faith, because you are leaving behind so much more than I ever had to surrender. I would imagine that Brother Dale would have some indications of what comes next in your life and ministry. I am sure you know that only through much prayer, surrender and leading of the Holy Spirit, will you find the answers to what comes next for you and your family. I would like to share the follow story as a way of expressing my thoughts on the subject. Last weekend my wife and I were at our family reunion at Wallowa Lake in Oregon. One of the things we did was to take a tram to the top of Mt. Howard. Up there, we met a young Navajo Indian woman who shared that she was an orphan and from her conversation it became clear that she was mentally handicapped. She shared that she was a born again believer in Jesus Christ and simply wanted to know where she fit in this world. Everybody it seems, including her tribe, have rejected her and simply wants to know where she belongs. To not even have family is something beyond my understanding. We talked with her a good deal sharing what we know about God's plan for our lives and then prayed with her. All my wife and I knew to do was to share the love of Jesus Christ, point her in the direction of the Holy Spirit for leading and pray. As you consider where God is leading you, consider how alone this young Indian woman is and trust that the Holy Spirit has a plan he is presently working out, in each one of our lives. Your friend in Jesus Christ, Phil Harris | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6557 Registered: 12-2003 |
2move, all I can say is this: God is faithful. Our experience (our own and also our vicarious sharing of others' experiences as they have left) have convinced me that God doesn't show us in advance where He will take us. Leaving Adventism is such a huge identity issue—it's not only our church, it's our family, social life, and even our income. It seems that the Lord Jesus asks us to trust Him enough to follow Him even when we can't see. Revelation follows—it does not preceed obedience. I have two observations based on the past eight years of helping people in transition and from our own transition (which included initially giving up our bread-and-butter account in our publishing business and ultimately included Richard's being fired for his commitment to Proclamation! and LAM). First, when a person initially leaves, he doesn't have any idea how much he still has to learn about the Bible. Even though we had spent four solid years in Bible study and research, comparing every Adventist nuance we could think of with the Bible, we were still shocked when we began worshiping at a solid Bible-teaching church and heard good expository preaching and also became involved in small-group Bible study. The Bible became a new book, and we learned ways to study and understand it from different perspectives, both in terms of depth and also big-picture breadth, that changed our understanding of how to study. I realize that you have been to seminary, but even the Adventist seminary is limited in the ways it teaches subjects such as inductive Bible study. It is startling to study the Bible with people who have learned it from a different perspective. I realize that you have learned good tools for study, but sometimes those tools are limited in that there are certain assumptions you don't realize are coloring your exegesis. So, I recommend just immersing yourself in a good church and allowing yourself to be fed for a while. I know it seems unlikely at this point, but you will be downright surprised at what you will learn as you begin to study with people who have never had an Adventist background. Second, God will direct you. He will show you what work He wants you to do. He will provide for you during the times of uncertainty and transition. He is 100% faithful. As Greg Taylor says, when he left, he didn't find full-time work for many months, but they never missed a house payment. He had an associate pastor position for a couple of years, but God ultimately led him out of that. Today he is a senior pastor at a Christian church, but God taught him more than he knew he needed to know(!) in preparation for finally having a new pastorate. You can completely trust God to provide for your needs and to direct you. He knows exactly how He wants to continue your education. He will now "take charge" of educating you and showing you His will. He will teach you to trust Him in new ways, and He will also provide opportunities for you to teach or minister according to His will during your transitional time. This is one of those "jumping off a cliff" times, 2move, and God is asking you to trust Him not only to make you new but also to prepare you for and present to you the work He prepared in advance for you to do. God will redeem the past and restore the years the locusts ate. Without doubt you are facing one of the most unnerving but rewarding times of your entire life. His timetable, I am learning, never matches mine, and the ways He provides are always surprising. God never develops a "pattern" for delivering us and for letting us know He's in charge of our lives! Trust, faith in His promises, offering ourselves as living sacrifices—these are the things He wants to teach us and reinforce in us. You are in good hands—the double grip of the Father and the Lord Jesus (John 10:29), and nothing can stop God's work on your behalf. You can trust Him! Colleen | ||
| Pastor2move Registered user Username: Pastor2move Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2007 |
Thanks Colleen for your encouraging words. | ||
| Robby Registered user Username: Robby Post Number: 12 Registered: 2-2006 |
Colleen, that was beautiful and (I believe) inspired. As I face a different season of my life (new city, different career) your words resonate with me. I have been praying for you pastor. Our God IS in control. Robby | ||
| Lydell Registered user Username: Lydell Post Number: 766 Registered: 7-2000 |
Excellent Colleen, I am convinced that the number one thing we have to learn when we leave Adventism is that the Lord can be trusted to lead. We've had ground into us EGW's "vision" of satan "answering" the prayers of the non-sabbatarians. What bunk! Jesus told us that if we ask the Father he will give us the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit can be trusted to safely guide us to a safe and healthy church....IF we are willing to listen and follow. I like the observation that Colleen made about us all having a lot to learn Biblically when we leave. It is so true. I fear many go out the doors of Adventism carrying the same baggage of Adventist religious prejudice: "WE have the truth, not THEM..." that has to be dropped. We are in a learning place, not a teaching one. God has surprises in store. Sometimes he is going to offend our minds/religious mindset to reveal our hearts.... So trust God, pastor...you are in for an awesome journey! The Lord has delightful surprises in store for you. We could all tell you what denominations/churches where we are attending. But that really isn't the key. The key is where GOD leads. And he is so faithful to do that. We started out at a community Bible study with a bunch of people who were former addicts...among other things(and still smoking......GASP!!). I think the Lord wanted to offend our minds to reveal our hearts. When we really listened to those folks, we realized that they were honestly pursuing God. Had problems, sure. Had baggage they were still in need of dropping. But you know what? At that point...they were further ahead than we were really! It was humbling. And it was there that the Lord caused 4 different people to invite us to the same church...the one where we have been ever since. He just has so many ways of leading us it's really fascinating. Can't wait to hear your story of how He leads you. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 150 Registered: 5-2007 |
Lydell, Thank you for your comments. Being a follower of Jesus Christ means we have a lifetime of growiing. The main reason I am on this forum is to grow through the imput that all of the rest of you provide. It has been my experience that the Holy Spirit will speak through the heart of the most humble person and a wise person will keep their mind and heart open to their testemony. Above all else, we are all learners when it comes to understanding our relationship to God. Phil | ||
| Freeindeed Registered user Username: Freeindeed Post Number: 53 Registered: 3-2006 |
Pastor2move, Hey, just wanted to encourage you in your journey. I pastored for about 10 years for the SDA church and resigned a little over a year ago after discovering, not just the problems that exist with SDA doctrines/beliefs, but after hearing the true Gospel of Jesus for really the first time (sad, I know). I know personally several other pastors who have left recently for the very same reasons. So, be encouraged. God is in complete control, stick to the Bible alone, and direct others to Christ alone for their salvation. God bless! FreeIndeed (Mark Martin - just wanted to say thank you for all of the audio on your website. I didn't find it until after I had left, but it was such a blessing. Also, Ralph Robertson used to be my pastor and I went to grade school with his daughter. The SDA world is extremely small!) | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 89 Registered: 7-2007 |
welcome pastor2move, you hit it right in the money with that description about adventism. The Lord is truly guiding you out of this and guiding you into His plans for you. He will provide for you a church home to be a part of. That's what He did for me. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 143 Registered: 7-2007 |
Yes welcome!!! I just shared your post (and FreeIndeed's post) with the friend whom God used to bring me out of Adventism and she rejoiced! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6565 Registered: 12-2003 |
Lydell, it's always so good to see you here! Thanks for your experience and encouragement. And Phil, I admire you for sharing with us and being vulnerable with us even though you've been out for a long time. it's so wonderful how God uses us to bless each other! Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1287 Registered: 9-2006 |
Lydell, That was a fascinating story about your starting out with a bunch of former addicts, its always fascinating the diffrent methods God uses to supply us with what we need. I suppose Adventism is much like withdrawing from an addiction just from observing the conversation here and healing comes a little bit at a time. Truth is that seems to be it for the rest of our lives, and you mentioned they still had baggage such as cigarette smoking. If the hangups we call baggage were really suitcases many of us wouldn't have room for the furniture. Me included for sure. Sometimes the hangups are visible, sometimes not. River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4155 Registered: 3-2004  |
Pastor2move, Sorry for the late welcome to FAF. It is so good to have you here. We will pray for you as God tells you what to do next. We do have an awesome God. Diana |
