| Author |
Message |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 1008
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 6:08 am: |     |
Well said Melissa, Grace, and so many others.
Reb. We are called to surrender everything and everyone to God. It will not to to surrender only so far as nobody complains, or only so far as this or that person will still like us. God doesn't deal in half measures. That's why it's so important to surrender the whole mess to Him and listen till we clearly know what action He calls us to take. We can know that He will not lead us wrong.
Mary |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 549
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 8:05 am: | |
I will just trust God on this. I have to believe He will help me through this.
All this advice is really good. I now just have to digest it and pray about it.
There will be an answer. |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 551
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 9:22 am: | |
I just spoke with the Pastor of the SDB church in Gardena. The services actually end at 12:30 so that would be plenty of time to pick up my son and it's a 30 min. drive as opposed to an hour to Riverside.
This may actually work. I would prefer to keep going to SDB church as I have been very happy there. |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 552
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 9:51 am: | |
I just spoke with the Pastor of the SDB church in Gardena. The services actually end at 12:30 so that would be plenty of time to pick up my son and it's a 30 min. drive as opposed to an hour to Riverside.
This may actually work. I would prefer to keep going to SDB church as I have been very happy there. |
Lori
Registered user
Username: Lori
Post Number: 63
Registered: 11-1999
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 8:46 am: | |
Reb,
As I read your post the same thought comes to mind over and over. You are the authority in your home. Why are relinquishing your authority to your wife?
In my experience with Adventist this is an undercurrent in most adventist families--the woman rules the home, the family, everything. It's like a dribble down effect from Ellen White, herself.
My mother ruled the house, still does!! My Baptist father was pulled around by the nose. I know he became an Adventist for no other reason than to just make her shut up. (That's what his friends told me.)
As grown woman, I resent the fact my father wasn't a man, wasn't the authority in our home. I resent the fact that as a child, an adolescent, a young adult I could have been exposed to GRACE but I wasn't because my father was a coward and wouldn't take a stand for Christ, for Grace, for the Gospel.
It took me more than 5 years, after I finally grasp the concept of Grace, to undo the brainwashing of the Adventist system so I could actually believe it.
I married a non-Adventist. A non-denominational Christian. I went to the SDA church alone (and with my children) for 12 years. My husband came with me less than 6 times in all those years. He would come and participate in the social aspects at Christmas, etc... That was it.
His spiritual life was his own. I respected him enough to allow him to believe as chose. And he had the same respect for me.
We both prayed for each other to "see the truth". I finally saw the truth of the Gospel and thank God I had the courage to embrace it!!!
Tears come to my eyes because it's absolutely a miracle when anyone comes out of the Adventist and embraces the Gospel, they accept Christ as "enough", they learn to grow in GRACE!!
Part of the process afterward is "taking up your cross". The shame of saying Christ did it all. The shame of embracing the Gospel message that requires nothing of you because it's all about HIM!
And, yes, you will be ridiculed them, shot down, criticized, manipulated, insulted. Anything they can think of. I have been told by my family that "all my blessings come from Satan". I have had my family attempt to disrupt Bible studies in my home. They have tried to fill my children with the fear of keeping the law. I have been accused of causing my mother to attempt suicide. I have been yelled out in my own home by my parents. Telling me I had better come back before it's too late. Everything that comes out of their mouths is about the Sabbath. Not one word about Christ, not one word about God. Only the Sabbath.
It's not an easy road to embrace the Gospel. It's not an easy road to live that the Gospel is the power of God for the salvation of those who believe. It's not easy even in other denominations because most of them have their "to-do" and their "to-don't" list if you REALLY believe.
But you've got to live it if you are going to be an effective witness for Jesus Christ. You nullify your witness for Christ when you pretend to be something other than a grace-oriented Christian. When you muddy up the waters, even just going along with the rules--your sending out the message of a different gospel.
If you go to the Adventist church go as an ambassador for Christ, go as the ambassador for Grace, go as the ambassador for the Gospel. Go and preach the message of Christ, and Christ alone.
Maybe if you do that your wife will ask you NOT to come back! |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 560
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 9:02 am: | |
Hmmmmmmm. IF I preach the Gospel and Christ alone at the SDA church I attend sometimes with my wife, THEY won't want me back. THAT would solve the problem.
Anyhoo, I'm not backing down. I think I may try the SDB church that is closer to my home and see how that works. |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 561
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 10:22 am: | |
And also, guys, PLEASE understand, my wife is a wonderful person and she is really good to me.
It's just this one issue and I believe God will work it out.
I know I have been spiritually abused by ADVENTISM and my wife probably has been as well but would not, at least at this time admit it.
Try to see things from her perspective, she was raised Adventist in a culture where the Adventism is even stricter than it is in the US.
She was fed EGWs books in Indonesian where the baloney was "translated out". I don't think she has ever read EGW in English so she probably hasn't seen the nutty things EGW actually wrote.
It's NOT her fault. If anyone is to blame it's me. I should not have converted to Adventism in the first place. Even though I was a Baha'i at the time, if I was seeking Christ I could've found Him somewhere else and she probably would've at least seen that as "progress" and left me alone about it. I made the mistake of converting to Adventism mainly to make her "happy" and it has now blown up in my face at this point. I am NOT blaming her, there were other choices I could've made a long time ago. I could've become SDB 15 years ago in the first place and, as I said she would've really respected that and at least seen my going from a non-Christian religion(Baha'i) to a Christian church as a real step of progress and been reasonably happy with that.
But anyway I can't go back and do things differently, I have to do the best with where I'm at now and trust God that He will somehow give me the answer. |
Lucybugg
Registered user
Username: Lucybugg
Post Number: 69
Registered: 2-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 11:11 am: | |
As I read your post the same thought comes to mind over and over. You are the authority in your home. Why are relinquishing your authority to your wife?
In my experience with Adventist this is an undercurrent in most adventist families--the woman rules the home, the family, everything. It's like a dribble down effect from Ellen White, herself.
Lori, this is so true!
I see it in my husband's family and in my own family as well. I love my husband dearly, but he is not the strong spiritual leader in our home. Oh how I want him to be the man God intends him to be. It would thrill me to no end if he would step up and lead our family. And it's not that he won't; he feels as if he can't because he doesn't know how. Sound familiar?
As a woman with a strong personality (to say it kindly) and as a woman who was raised to believe that I didn't have to ask a man for permission to do anything,it disturbs me every time I read that your wife won't allow you to do this or that or when she demands that you do this or that.
This is spiritual warfare, and the enemy knows your weaknesses and uses them to his advantage. I know that you are praying about this, and I will be also. I know you're trying to keep the peace and find a good compromise, but the time is near (or even here) when you have to take a stand for Christ. He's totally worth it! |
Laurie
Registered user
Username: Laurie
Post Number: 74
Registered: 6-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 12:55 pm: | |
Lori -
I think you are right. My mom asbolutely rules over my dad and their home. I have never understood their relationship. He converted to SDA and she rules in every aspect of their relationship.
I personally have never felt that way towards my husband so I'm not sure if it is SDA related or not. Very interesting thought anway.
Laurie |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 563
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 1:08 pm: | |
It is SDA related. Trickled-down from EGW.
I am going to assert leadership in my family, I HAVE to. And I think my wife will actually respect that.
It's time for me to stop being a "wiener" and get some backbone.
I just have to pray for God's help with this, I cannot do it without Him. |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 598
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 4:46 pm: | |
Reb, we are all here to pray for your success, and support you. 
Gilbert Jorgensen |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6567
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 6:16 pm: | |
Yes, Reb, we are praying for you. Lori, great post...and yes, there is a strong undercurrent of a form of feminism within Adventism. There is lip service for the concept of husbands as the "head of the household", but it is mostly lip service. Adventist women are not taught biblical submission. Ephesians 5 is usually explained away as a cultural/time-bound passage, or dismissed because some have used it to support outright abuse...I didn't hear Biblical submission explained until a few years after I was out of Adventism. It took me a while to assimilate it, but it is an amazing, freeing reality.
And Reb, I think we do understand your wife's strong tie to Adventism. At the same time, you need to understand that her devotion to Adventism may not be as complete and unswerving as you think. Respectfully, Reb—she married YOU when you were not Adventist. That is NOT permitted by EGW or by the church! Many Adventist pastors will not perform a wedding between an SDA and a non-SDA. (Did her pastor marry you?)
This is not to say that she is or is not open to something else. It is simply to say, look at her experience as a whole. She is clearly bound to Adventism, but her bondage is not primarily loyalty to the church's demands. It is a loyalty that is much deeper and stronger; it's a spiritual and cultural bond. You need to see that she is not strictly a "loyal Adventist". She is a pragmatic Adventist, and she is desperately trying to keep her sense equilibrium by controling her environment.
Colleen |
Blessed
Registered user
Username: Blessed
Post Number: 74
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 7:57 pm: | |
You are doing the right thing Reb. Adventism is full of matriarchal control and it is time to end it. I am praying for you and believe that the Lord will honor your desire to obey him and be the head of your home.
Blessed |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 564
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 8:32 am: | |
Colleen, not only did her pastor not do our wedding he advised her not to marry me and she did anyway.(She really loves me). I was a Baha'i at the time and we had a Baha'i wedding ceremony.
Interesting, eh?
Yes, I think a lot if it is cultural with her, the fact that she sleeps during most of the sermons speaks volumes. There's hope.
(Message edited by Reb on August 17, 2007) |
Laurie
Registered user
Username: Laurie
Post Number: 75
Registered: 6-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 1:46 pm: | |
Reb -
Something else I have been wondering about is how your wife would be OK with your son going to catholic school every day for 8 hours a day but won't let him go to church on Saturday for a few hours a week at the SDB church.
To a true SDA, sending your kid to catholic school would be like sending him to the devil himself for education. I don't understand how this would be OK with her.
Laurie |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 574
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 2:04 pm: | |
I've wondered about that also and she knows he'd also have to go to Mass every day.
He didn't get into the Catholic School this year and will be going to public school. I'm kinda worried that the education he recieved at SDA school is so substandard he may struggle in public school. Seems like all the Adventist school did was try to "indoctrinate" my son.
My wife worked for a Catholic hospital when she was in Indonesia and actually has some respect for the RCC. She doesn't have the bigotry towards Catholics many Adventists have she is actually more tolerant towards Catholics than she is towards Baptists or Lutherans.
I think she also would expect that our son would recognise the RCC is "false"(Ummmm I got news for her he actually wants to and is planning on becoming a Catholic once he is 18) and she thinks the SDB church "looks enough like the truth" that it will "confuse" him. She doesn't mind so much if I am an SDB but she is afraid our son would follow me to the SDB church, what she doesn't realise is he actually wants to be a Catholic.
As for me I am sticking with the SDB church. I found one in Gardena, CA which is closer by half the distance to where I live and works out logistically for me. I have to stick to my guns. In the long run she will respect me for it and who knows? God can do anything. I have to just keep loving her, showing her a Christian example, be a LEADER instead of a wiener and leave her to the Holy Spirit.
(Message edited by Reb on August 17, 2007) |
Wolfgang
Registered user
Username: Wolfgang
Post Number: 179
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 5:44 pm: | |
I think most SDA women would be would be angry that thier husband would choose another church than the SDA,I think they would be ok if thier husbands just didnt go anywhere. Im sure she's just plain scared,thats why its important that she see's your new life in CHRIST bursting from your heart and soul. Sounds like your a peacekeeper in your home Reb so Im sure none of this is easy,May God Bless |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 588
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 3:32 pm: | |
Thanks, Wolfgang.
I have gotten to the "heart" of the matter on this as stated on another thread titled "Progress and hope".
My wife understands now where I'm coming from with this and why I cannot be an Adventist anymore and why I will continue to go to SDB church. She has even said she is sorry about the spiritual abuse I suffered in Adventism.
God is SO GOOD!!!!! |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 811
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 12:51 pm: | |
Reb,
I noticed that you posted today on CARM
quote:"She (my wife) will not accept my being a Baptist no matter what I do and that is a fight I cannot win."
I'm really sorry to hear that. If I might ask, "Why is your wife making this decision for you? Isn't it God's acceptance that should matter?" A fight you cannot win? And when did it become your fight? (I say this out of love.) Have you truly turned this over to God, or are you trying to do it yourself?
And now reb, what can you do?
To paraphrase what A. F. Ballenger might say to you in this situation:
quote:If you accept the testimony of the Scriptures, if you follow your conscientious convictions, you find yourself under your wife's condemnation. But when you turn in your sorrow to the Word of the Lord, that Word reads the same, and you fear to reject God's interpretation and accept your wife's. I know that you wish to please both God and your wife.
But if you must accept but one, hadn't you better accept the Lord's? If you reject his word and accept your wife's, can she save you in the judgment? When side by side we all stand before the great white throne; if the Master should ask you why that is a fight you cannot win, what shall your answer be? Will you say, 'Because my wife will not accept my being a Baptist no matter what I do?
Please forgive me if I am overstepping my bounds. My heart longs for you to put Jesus first.
Your brother in Christ,
Gilbert |
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