| Author | Message | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 39 Registered: 6-2007 |
In the August issue of the Focus on the Family magazine there is a one page article titled "Sabbath: a break from busyness". In this article, Dr Dobson explains that in the hectic world, families need a break and a day to rest and worship. He states "even our almighty, omnipotent Creator rested on the seveth day". He goes on to quote Isaish 58:13-14 stating we are to call the Sabbath a delight. I have a problem with this line of thought. First of all, without actually saying it, he is substituting Sunday worhip for the Sabbath. Secondly, by directly referring to the Jewish Sabbath of the old testemant, he is picking out part of the old covenant and attempting to apply it to his life today. You can't do that. That is exactly what SDAs do. What about the six hundred and some other rules/regulations given as part of that covenant. I have no problem with someone saying that we all need to slow down, rest, find quiet time with God, and have a day set aside for worship...but I do not like to see the word Sabbath brought into the equation. Any thoughts? Laurie | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1969 Registered: 10-2004  |
Dr. Dobson is definitely one of the most stringent/legalistic Sabbatarians in the Christian world. He believes that Sunday is the Sabbath day and that it is to be kept totally sacred. He does not even like to record his radio broadcast on Sundays. If I'm not mistaken, I believe he comes from a Nazarene background (which is quite legalistic). Jeremy | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1173 Registered: 4-2000  |
Yes, Dr. Dobson tends to be legalistic. He grew up in the Nazarene Church which is Arminian theologically. His father was a minister in that church as well. I fully agree with you that we have no authorization to make selective "principles" out of Old Covenant rituals. Why not just make "principles" out of all the Old Covenant rituals? It may be ideal to address this issue directly with Dr. Dobson and his organization. Simply send them an email stating your disagreement with them. Better yet, send them a letter. Dennis Fischer | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1115 Registered: 9-2006  |
Laurie, Like you, I find all kind of problems with the way this was stated. Firstly, God did not need to rest as in "rest" but stopped upon completion of his work. Secondly, I also agree with you that he is just substituting Sunday for Saturday and quoting the old covenant. Now having said that and having listened to Dr. James Dobson in his focus on the family broadcast for many months, I think that he didn’t think out what he was saying. I think what he really was meaning to stress was that we need to take time out for worship and rest. It is as I have stated on here before, the evangelical world goes right on blissfully unaware of Adventism. The rest of the evangelical world probably went right on unaware of what he said and amened him right along. I don’t think he was even aware of what he said. It has been not that long ago that I wouldn’t have thought a thing about the statements, and I would have known the trust of his message without thinking of the statement. Oh, I would have caught the statement indicating that God rested because he was tired and it would have bugged me. I have heard evangelicals many times refer to Sunday as the Sabbath and it used to be I wouldn’t have thought a thing about it. I am not making excuse for Dr. Dobson, I am just pointing out the unique-ness of the former Adventist. You guys are sharply aware of the differences. That is not bad, it does make you good Bible students in certain areas. I would like too submit your concern to Dr. Dobson for answer but I don’t have time to do so and even if I did I probably would not receive an answer because of the volume of mail he gets so I guess I’ll never get to hash it out with him. What I am saying I suppose dear friends is that it would be largely up to you to educate the Evangelical world to Adventism, I have made my best effort to bring my own Pastor into the awareness of Adventism. I do encourage you to try not to be so gun shy that it interferes with a normal spiritual Christian growth. I stress that I too may be wrong in such encouragement. But it is my desire to cheer you on in your walk with the Lord as you do me in mine. These are just my thoughts on the matter. River P. S. I agree with Dennis, it might be good to send them a letter. (Message edited by river on July 22, 2007) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1116 Registered: 9-2006 |
Jeremy, I was not aware of his legalistic back ground so it might be like talking to a stump. River | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 421 Registered: 11-2005 |
Laurie, River, and everyone else, I, too, experience the same frustration with the poor understanding of the Sabbath on the part of most non-Adventists. And they innocently set themselves up for the very arguments that Adventists use so successfully! On the one hand, I feel like a babe when it comes to separating out what I was taught from Ellenology vs. the Bible. On the other hand, I have a heightened awareness when it comes to the Sabbath vs. the Lord's day, tithing, Old Covenant vs. New Covenant, etc. We have become super-sensative to those areas that Ellenology twists and distorts. FAF has been a wonderful resource in this regard. Mainstream Christianity generally has the foundation principles right. It is a truly unique position. Blundering statements like you pointed out above certainly don't help us either as we help our families transition. I suppose that they do give us "talking points" about which to study and clarify specific points relating to the Sabbath. The best book I have found on the subject is The Sabbath and the Lord's Day http://www.ratzlaf.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1001721730 Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 93 Registered: 4-2007 |
I much prefer 'choose to rest' as opposed to 'choose you this day to rest'. Too busy to worship or so busy we're exhausted are both results of personal choices-no one can impose 'busyness' on you-at least not in this country | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 122 Registered: 5-2007  |
About twelve years ago I was in a local church that was part of the Conservative Baptist denomination. Over a period of time the pastor preached a number of questionable sermons. The final one that put me "over the edge" was when he said that Sunday was the Christian Sabbath day of rest. When I challenged him to support his position from the Bible he claimed to have proof but couldn't be bothered to give me his scripture references. Another one of his sermons was on the subject of an elder or deacon should only be married to "one wife at a time". In other words, not guilty of bigamy. He didn't have scripture to support that view either. The story is more complicated than the above paragraph indicates, but ten of us left and formed a house church. There were a lot of hard feelings and numerous others left because of his poor preaching, lack of concern with the needs of ordinary people and his "control" of everything. He was eventually was forced to resign. What I learned from this is that a Spirit lead preacher will welcome critique and will not be afraid to admit when he is wrong. Those that don't worry me. So, the moral of my story is, go to Dr. Dobson and share what you know about the Sabbath. To me, atributing anything to Sunday that is about the Sabbath only gives the SDA people amunition for their twisted doctrine concerning the Sabbath. Phil (Message edited by philharris on July 22, 2007) | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 40 Registered: 6-2007 |
Phil Just to clarify... are you saying bigamy is OK? Laurie | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1117 Registered: 9-2006 |
On looking at this thing Dr. Dobson probably did realize what he was saying, I just noticed the title Laurie quoted from so I guess it would be like talking to a stump. Phil. I sympathize with you and agree with you. River | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 123 Registered: 5-2007 |
Laurie, NO! Phil | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 41 Registered: 6-2007 |
OK, just checking.  | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1174 Registered: 4-2000 |
"...apppoint elders in every city as I directed you, namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife..." (Titus 1:5-6 NASB). Dennis Fischer | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 125 Registered: 5-2007 |
Dennis, My ex-pastor used the verse you quote above, but added in the phrase; "at a time". My best guess is that he was defending the head elder who had been divorced and was remarried. He made the verse read; "the husband of one wife at a time", thereby justifing the head elder holding office because he only had one wife at a time.  Along with his theology, I had a number of serious problems with him. I wanted the church to become involved in outreach ministries and fill real needs, but he refused stating he was to busy just running the church. Phil |
