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| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 157 Registered: 5-2007 |
I try to assess where I am at in my discovery relationship in Christ. Sometimes , I ask apparently novice questions on this forum. Actually, I often have my own notions and I am taking validation bearings if you will. I think most people on this forum have an established history of experience in Christ. But I also believe most of us have a dysfunctional history as well. From error, incomplete information or understanding, skewed tangents, ommissions etc. I think many of us have emotional baggage that has been aggrivated or perhaps caused by the mindset that error and/or Spiritual abuse can cause. So , with all this in view. I find myself going through the motions of laying the basic building blocks of faith and doctrine over and over again. Not sure what is causing that effect. Actually , I have decades of study, yet I am forced to go back and review everything, all the way back to the basics. In fact, given the right crowds. Certain view points. I have crossed paths with people that will undermine the entire Bible as being a collection of fables from a dessert dwelling people. Mix in the evolutionists, the agnostics and what you end up with is a need to review and check your own foundations. Most people I have discovered build their faith basis upon what they already are familiar with and virtually do not even address the foundations assumed to their beliefs. You ask them about creation or scripture and the y say they "believe " in God, the Bible etc. Yet they rarely will tell you how they got there, what they base their beliefs upon and so on. The estoteric claim to "I believe" is like a mist to most people on the outside of the experience. Yes , I know, Spiritual things are discerned Spiritually. But scripture talks also about faith coming by hearing, and the need to know God. You get there by many avenues. River you speak of depth and desire to have more and more of God. I understand the thought. In my own experience, I have often desired to know God by conviction of conclusions of evidence and reasonings of evidence. By pondering the deep things of God. But I also believe that I am limited by my own limits of capacity to recieve these deep things, my sins, fears, weakness, injuries and scars and so on. Thus , when I think of others lesser or greater than myself. I conclude that God reveals Himself to each of us in a unique way. Truths may be in common, but they may also be unique in how we percieve them or how we get there. Some of us, I believe, simply cannot attain to some things. Our minds cannot hold it, or our thoughts cannot grasp it. But it is important that we all keep feeding. This walk is both simple and instant, but it is infinite and beyond us at the same time. Peace in the former simplicity and awe in its depth. What I think about: Creation, Premise 1. In the Beginning. "God". The Bible: Authenticate, Validate, Establish. I am not so sure we start there. But we can be challenged there. I think most people experince Christ first by observation in teh life of others and their testimonies and fruits. The validations come later. I think this may account for the tendancy for many Charismatic Christians to place the emphasis on fruits and living in the Spirtual experiences rather than on the primal inquiries that tend to come from the pragmatic types. I suggest it is important that both camps realize the value of both camps and merge towards a balance. Both camps need the ability to answer the whys and to experiece the realitys in Christ. Then we migrate into hard sayings, doctrines and so forth. Thus , In my opinion, Unless we can embrace the basics of foundations and spiritual realities, we are simply not inclined nor equipped to answer, understand or recieve the deeper things. This goes beyond the topic of Milk. It goes to the anchor points. If a Christian can be compared to a tall TV tower. That height is limited to the foundation and the anchor points that hold the cables in place. Loose a few anchor points and that tower can come falling down. Build with out those cables or foundation and the tower can only go so high and stop. This is why I migrate to organized study. The forum is a great starting point. A compass. But the need for organized study is vital. It gets back to everything being done decently and in order. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1078 Registered: 9-2006  |
Jim, I think I know what you are talking about, not sure of your thinking, but pretty sure. I know what you mean by needing to make sure of your anchor points, although I am not sure of your thinking on what might be your anchor points. But going back to the basics and starting over will stand the test if you are anchored to the correct doctrine. Not only stand the test but validate. Our basic foundation is Jesus Christ, without that it cannot stand the strain. That foundation will stand close examination, you can chip away at it but you cannot shake it. Here again is the four pillars (cord) (cables) of my faith. I have sent out the challenge before to disprove and therefore break either one of the Cables, pillars, cords by study of Gods word. The four pillars of the Christian faith. 1. Believe that Christ died and rose the third day. 1 Cor 15:1 and Romans 10: 9,10 2. Sola fide, by faith alone. 3. Christ deity. 4. Absolute and complete atonement for our sins at the cross. I think the problem with some folk is reading the word of God with a carnal mind, and when that is the case belief on Christ and repentance just must come first and foremost. The word of God is spiritually discerned, without the Spirit of God one cannot understand the things of God. People can very well have a form of Godliness, the while, denying the power thereof. Only the Holy Spirit coming in by the power of God would one hope to be able to discern the true things of God, his Holy Spirit coming in and abiding in one is what renews our spirit. (reborn) and the Holy Spirit does not dwell AMID lies and deceit. He is not born of lies and deceit. Things of the Spirit are only seen through the eyes of the Spirit, so then we begin looking through his eyes. The deeper we go into his Spirit enables us to see more and more of the Spiritual nature of things, that is the only way is by his Spirit, we acquire more of his Spirit through faith in him. The just shall live by faith, so I don’t live by my own wisdom or knowledge, or even my own righteousness or wellness of body or whether I pick my nose or not. I have re-examined my foundations, torn them apart and started over and tested my own beliefs and while true I make many course adjustment along the way my ship is sound Sir and she sails under full billows of the word planted by the Spirit of God, and she sails under the pure white sails of Jesus our Lord the Christ, my course is set and the Holy Spirit is at the helm. So yes, I crave the deep things of God, I want to see through his eyes and make the proper course corrections, to be able to identify the obstacles and steer around while maintaining a true course. I have seen Adventism sir and it is a desolate place for any unfortunate mariner to have the mishap of crashing and marooning on her shores. Dead things feed on dead things there sir. The carnal mind cannot behold the things of the Spirit of God, to be carnal minded is death, but the Spirit is life and peace and joy and rest in him evermore. Before you set sail sir please do examine the halyards, wash the sail in the blood that makes white as snow, replace the rotten planks of bad doctrine, haul her upon her sides and scrape the barnacles of a carnal mind and grasses of human pride and knowledge and declare her fit to reach heavens shore blown there by the winds of the Holy Spirit. May God bless you in his wisdom today Sir Jim. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6336 Registered: 12-2003  |
Great post, River. Jim, if you analyze the "bottom line", no matter what one chooses to believe, there will always be an element of faith. The issue is whether we will ultimately place our faith in Truth or in our own logic. Disbelieving God requires as much faith as believing God—it's just faith placed in our logic instead of in reality. The question of anchor point beliefs has no concrete intellectual answer. Oh yes, there is plenty of physical and historical evidence to believe in the Bible's claims and in Jesus. But ultimately, we cannot scientifically prove either the athiestic position or the position of belief. If Jesus is real, if His claims are true, then we are in deep weeds if we reject Him. If He is not real, we have nothing to gain or lose by disbelieving. If He is not real, we have no future after this life anyway. If He is real, however, we have eternity and Life to gain. If we choose to believe the Bible on the basis of faith, being open to knowing truth from deception, if we are willing to ask God to reveal truth to us as we delve into His word, we discover that real "proof" comes. Ultimately, saving faith in Jesus results when we risk knowing what is real. God is faithful to reveal reality when we want to know it. You're right about our own fractures and wounds preventing us from knowing Him fully. But even here, God is faithful. If we tell Him we're not sure what truth is but we want to know, if we ask Him to reveal to us the truth about ourselves as well as about Him, to show us what we need to see, to help us know what we need to know, to change what needs to be changed, and to heal the parts of us that are twisted and broken, He is faithful to do this. He doesn't do everything all at once. If He did, it would probably overwhelm and kill us! But He faithfully, step-by-step, reveals to us the truth about ourselves and convicts us of the things we have to surrender to Him. Jesus takes responsibility for us when we submit to Him, and He is faithful to complete what He begins in us. Colleen |
