| Author |
Message |
Wolfgang
Registered user
Username: Wolfgang
Post Number: 163
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 4:41 pm: |     |
awwww the love in this room!!
just having myself a wine cooler on Friday night chillng with my hubby thinking about how awsome it is to be set free,and my house work isnt even done before the sun goes down,but Im assured that I have rest in Christ |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 688
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 5:20 pm: | |
Awwwww!! Love you too Colleen, VERY MUCH!! And everyone else in here too. Thanks for sharing your hearts and thoughts with me every day.
((((HUG)))) (((KISS)))
Leigh Anne |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 4013
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 5:26 pm: | |
Here is a group hug for all you lovely people.
(((((((((((((Hug all of you)))))))))))))))
I am living a new life and God that is so awesome.
Diana |
Luzisbornagain
Registered user
Username: Luzisbornagain
Post Number: 60
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 6:10 pm: | |
((((((((((((((((((BIG HUGE HUGGOS TO EVERYONE)))))))))))))))))))))))))) |
Stevendi
Registered user
Username: Stevendi
Post Number: 169
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 11:06 am: | |
Luz,
I recall doing my own study of "wine" and "strong drink" in the Bible some years ago.
Bottom line came down to the word "debauchery" (sp?). This word is very dramatic. It means that, if you drink enough (or smoke enough, etc.) to lead you to debauchery, you are definitely crossing the line and cutting yourself off from the Holy Spirit's influence. This is a level of drunkeness to the point of sexual depravity, absolutely disgusting behaviors, obnoxiousness, flat out stupidity. It is extreme.
My personal opinion is that wine is a great social lubricant and even a medicine for stress and diress at times. Certainly, not all people can handle the blessings of this or perhaps many other stimulating things in our life. That's why it is so important to walk in the Spirit of Christ. Anything can be abused. That doesn't mean that the thing is bad, it means that we are using that thing to exercise our sinful flesh, instead of putting Christ first in our lives. EVERY HUMAN BEING IS ADDICTED TO SOMETHING. One reason I am on this forum is because of the pain it causes me that so many are addicted to religion, especially Adventism. This addiction is so deceptive in the way it blocks people from knowing the true gospel of Jesus Christ, in connecting with a loving God, in learning from the Holy Spirit, instead of false teachers, some living, some dead.
Luz, your posts prove to me that your heart is open to the Lord and His leading. You are IN baby! Praise His name!
steve |
Sara
Registered user
Username: Sara
Post Number: 18
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 11:43 am: | |
I would have jumped in earlier if I had known all the love stuff was going around. I can use hugs about now. So I recieve!
Dawn, you made me laugh. My house work wasnt done either, but I got to go with my adopted "kids" from youth group to an incredible praise and worship youth festival. We stopped and ate at Waffle House at 11:30 pm.
When I deliberately dared to "break the sabbath" at first, it was monumental. I just took a break from cleaning today--Didnt even occur to me that it was Saturday! Thanks for pointing out to me how free I am at this point.
It really does get better on the outside.
Sara |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 1109
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 12:24 pm: | |
Excellent post Steve, not bad fer a hayseed.
River |
Wolfgang
Registered user
Username: Wolfgang
Post Number: 164
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 5:06 pm: | |
amen Sara,today my hubby and I went to the beach at lake michigan and basked in the sun,hit a few flea markets on our way, and had shrimp for supper even a year ago I would have been looking over my shoulder,freedom by all accounts is delicious
Dawn |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6352
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 10:42 pm: | |
Sara, good to see you again! Consider yourself hugged...
Colleen |
Honestwitness
Registered user
Username: Honestwitness
Post Number: 273
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 11:15 am: | |
I'm so glad the Bible doesn't say anything about chocolate!
Honestwitness |
Sara
Registered user
Username: Sara
Post Number: 19
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 12:56 pm: | |
Thanks Colleen, hugs back.
Honest Witness, I'm with you on the chocolate.
Last week, someone from my new church invited us to dinner (Finally!, Praise God, I have missed that sooo much). Anyway, I ate chicken, and hardly had to pray at all to get it down...
Then they asked me if I wanted a glass of wine. I declined at first, then thought I might as well go for broke! So I took two taboo's down at the same time, meat and alcohol! After a few sips of wine, and a few bites of chicken, I was able to still enjoy the evening. We had a great time, talked a lot about all Jesus is doing for us, and I didnt feel one bit of condemnation.
(I even drank wine in front of the kids! Thought briefly about sorta hiding it, then I remembered I am free to be real and honest).
Sara |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 4027
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 4:34 pm: | |
Congratulations Sara, that was a big step for you. Being honest in front of the kids they will learn what a Christian can do.
God bless you..
He is so awesome.
Diana |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6361
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 9:07 pm: | |
Sara, I know how "big" that was. Praise God for His strength and for fellowship with others who love Him!
Colleen |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 422
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 9:46 pm: | |
No longer do I have to worry about "guarding the edges of the Sabbath." It is so wonderful. Now everyday is a day with Jesus!
I, too, find the fellowship here to be so encouraging. I thank each of you.
Gilbert Jorgensen |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 163
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 7:03 am: | |
This past Saturday . I did some labor work around the house for the first time. I prayed about it.
I prayed to God that I was not rebelling our intentionally disobeying. I felt like I was sinning. I asked God to not withdraw His blessings if I was in error. That I was willing to obey , if I knew I was wrong about my decision to let go of Sabbath observance.
This is the quandry I get into. Scripture says that whatever is not of conviction is sin.
In my mind I could see the scriptures suggesting that I was free from the obligations of Sabbath in so many words, but that element of doubt and confusion haunt me. In making a transition I am taking baby steps (as my wife calls it), including talking casual talk on Saturday, going out to eat at a resturant, etc...
But this wa sthe forst time I actually did labor on Saturday. So , yes , I am in doubts, even after months of study. I still "feel" like I am doing wrong. But I want this freedom so badly.
I would like to tell myself that I am stepping out in faith and experimenting. I gues that is what you could call it. In my fears, I am inclined to fall back and go back in my cell of bondage. But when I look back. It is no longer inviting. I ask myself, go back to what?
So, onward, I push. Feeling guilty, but having no home in that sense, I press forward.
It occurs to me that I have a place, that perhaps God is my home all along this path. I want that peace in believing that I am not under condemnation and that my experiments and efforts to try new things to break out of the SDA mold is not rebellion, nor am I being allowed or caused to believe any lies. |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 983
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 11:47 am: | |
Jim,
The guilt you describe reminds me of the guilt I felt when I quit wearing a Mennonite headcovering. I had become convinced, from my study of the scriptures (and of EGW at the time, since I was a devout SDA), that headcoverings were NOT a necessity for Christian women. I was also certain that continuing to wear a headcovering - as I had been required to do as a student at a Mennonite school - was a form of bearing false witness. People who looked at me dressed as a Mennonite would have wrongly assumed that I attended church on Sunday, believed that all meats were appropriate to eat, and that I belonged in a Mennonite community. They would have had no way of knowing that my beliefs were Seventh Day Adventist to the core.
So I put away my headcoverings. But O my! How the old tapes played - "You're not doing right! You're denying the truth. You're in rebellion."
Much later I heard a sermon (in the SDARM) about the conscience - that God is not the only one that informs our consciences, that they can also, through ignorance or false training, react when what we are doing is NOT sin. The only safety we can have, the preacher argued, is in letting God inform our consciences by His word, and in learning to hear and obey His Holy Spirit (which does not contradict His Word). I've found that to be true.
From time to time in my life so far clouds of guilty feelings have descended so sharply on me that I've been tempted to despair. Sometimes these clouds have attached to them some specific thing I've done or thought that I know to be be sin (in this case repentance has brought joy and relief). But then there are the other times when they are attached to something that is NOT wrong, or even more confusing, to no apparent thing at all.
The way I've learned to handle these latter types is something similar to what you describe. I've learned to submit the guilt to God, asking Him to make clear any issue that I need to repent of (for godly sorrow worketh repentance), and asking Him to remove any guilt that is not from Him (for the devil is in the condemnation business and loves to get us down for no reason).
Sometimes God parts the clouds immediately, clears the fog, and gives me, as it were, a hug. Other times He makes clear something or other that I have not fully surrendered to Him, convicts me of it, and welcomes my confession and repentance of it. Other times He seems silent, but lessons He has taught me before come to mind and I realize that I am to hold on to what He already taught me no matter how difficult that is through the feelings (and they are only feelings) of doubt, fear, and panic. And in other cases there has seemed absolutely no answer at all. In those I've learned to lay myself down in His arms even if I can't feel them, knowing that My Father is there more faithfully than any earthly parent, that I am safe in His love even when every internal and external indicator seem to declare the opposite. "For God has not give us the spirit of fear, but of power, and love, and of a sound mind."
And He has NOT brought you this far to drop you.
Thank you Jesus!
Mary |
Luzisbornagain
Registered user
Username: Luzisbornagain
Post Number: 61
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 1:10 pm: | |
well last night I had me a glass of alize, which is congnac and it was tasty. But of course I only had a glass and nothing else. When I felt it might affect me I stopped. freedom is truly delicious. |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 419
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 2:00 pm: | |
That's how I handle it, Luz. I stop when I feel it might affect me. There is nothing wrong with moderate drinking. But it is dangerous to get drunk. |
Luzisbornagain
Registered user
Username: Luzisbornagain
Post Number: 62
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 2:36 pm: | |
yeah, I don't like the thought of getting drunk, because you lose judgement which is vital in everyday living and your Christian walk. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6371
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 4:13 pm: | |
Jim, I agree completely with what Mary said above. Dale Ratzlaff says, "Acting contrary to our conscience causes spiritual disaster." But "refusing to study and look at the facts can be as dangersous as going against our conscience, causing spiritual disaster."
The conscience can be mis-trained, and we must be willing to know the real truth when God presents it.
I had exactly the same reaction you describe the very first time I deliberately did work on Sabbath. When we finally decided we had to act on our conviction that Jesus is enough, He confirmed Himself to us powerfully. Before we decided to make a clean break, however, we experimented with Sabbath "work". In general, those "experiments" left us feeling somewhat guilty.
Jim, I don't have a formula for you. But I do believe that God will not drop you, as Mary said, and He will not trick you or lead you astray. He does ask us to make the painful choice to obey Him at the expense of our comfort. Now, please do not hear me urging you to go angainst your conscience. But if you are acting with integrity, if you believe you see the truth in the Bible, obedience to that truth will be met with spiritual opposition. It may "feel" strange or foreign or painful. God asks us to trust Him above all—even above our feelings.
You are doing the right thing by praying for God to clarify His will and to keep you from deception. Ask Him to be more real to you than your fear, and ask Him to keep you rooted in truth and reality. He Himself is our great reward and true rest.
Colleen |
Stevendi
Registered user
Username: Stevendi
Post Number: 171
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 5:37 am: | |
Drunk is bad business. This is a confession without details.
steve |
Agapetos
Registered user
Username: Agapetos
Post Number: 932
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 12:12 am: | |
On the "drunk" note, I thought I'd share something a friend shared with me the other day. (Friend, if you're lurking, hope you don't mind) 
quote:Been doing some thinking on wine and communion:
On wine and grape juice (specifically in an Adventist context):
The Adventist church offers me grape juice and calls wine dangerous. Yes, wine is dangerous but there is a fire in wine that grape juice does not have. Juice is tame and safe, but God is not tame nor safe. He is a love that we drink that overtakes our senses. We become drunk on love in our relationships and romances. So it is with Christ, incarnated with his beloved, drunk on her presence, so much so that the Pharisees asked, "Why do you drink when we fast?" Christ responded, "Because the bridegroom is here."
Christ is called a glutton and a drunkard so it is amusingly fitting that when he asks us to remember him, his sacrifice, and his covenant, he asks us to do so by eating and drinking.
Yet to abstain from wine is blessed too -- witness John the Baptist, the greatest prophet (by the words of Christ).
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Larry
Registered user
Username: Larry
Post Number: 38
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 8:25 am: | |
Luke 5:39
And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for he says, 'The old is better.'
Jesus' own words! |
Marysroses
Registered user
Username: Marysroses
Post Number: 107
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 8:44 am: | |
One thing it seems few think about......
Without pasteurization, refrigeration and asceptic packaging... there is nothing BUT wine.
The yeast naturally clings to the grapes in the fields and fermentation often begins before they are even picked.
Until Mr. Welch, a methodist minister involved in the temperance movement, found a way to cook grape juice and bottle it aseptically, both ridding it of any natural fermentation in the first step and preventing natural fermentation in the second step, there was no such thing as 'grape juice'. You didn't see any discussion about using juice or wine before the technology to preserve juice was available either.
People forget that in this time of anti-fungally sprayed grape crops and pasteurized, packaged juice.
MarysRoses |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 1979
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 2:02 pm: | |
Wow, I had never heard about that history. The Wikipedia article on Welch is at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Bramwell_Welch
So if grape juice was not available until 1869, what did the SDAs use before then for their "communion"?
Jeremy |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 455
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 2:06 pm: | |
Probably vinegar. LOL. EGW was ADDICTED to it. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6385
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 3:39 pm: | |
So interesting, MarysRoses and Jeremy. Reb, that's too funny!
Colleen |
Agapetos
Registered user
Username: Agapetos
Post Number: 936
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 1:57 am: | |
I noticed it was interesting that in 1st Corinthians 11, Paul reprimanded the Corinthians for getting drunk at the Lord's Supper -- I guess they could get drunk on "grape juice" back then, eh? |
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