| Author |
Message |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 1057
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 9:57 am: |     |
Marysroses,
In that same bond of love I spoke of, I can't see as you have created any divisions.
That division between Catholics and Protestants has been around a lot longer than any of us have.
I don't imagine we are going to straighten it out on here do you?
We have to love in spite of the division on views.
Your quote: I'm not a bible only Christian because while I do believe the Holy Scriptures are inspired, I also see that "The bible says...." goes only as far as the interpretation of whatever is quoted. I too believe I have a scriptural foundation for my beliefs. I understand others would interpret those passages very differently. That is why I believe in a *source of authoritative interpretation and teaching* from scripture.
That right there between the stars I put in there is exactly what people on here are afraid of. Including me.
Many on here believe the bible IS the word of God, including me, to me the cost is too high to allow someone else to interpret the bible for me, it could cost me my soul and the cost is just too high, I am not speaking for everybody else, but I suspect some will agree.
Practically everyone on here has listened to a ”source of authoritative interpretation and teaching” to their chagrin. Am I getting out of line in saying this?
People on here are now looking to the Bible as that source of authority more times than not.
Practically the whole subject matter of this forum is to support those who have come to the place of learning that their trust in man has failed them.
The way I see it the views are varied and many and it is kind of like panning for gold, we swish the pan around and around and sure enough, if you look hard enough you will see that speck of gold there in among the rocks in the bottom of the pan.
There are some that go away and eat worms, they don’t have the stomach for the mining.
There are those of the kind on here that we find in Acts 17:11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.
Love is not necessarily a feeling but rather a decision, if we make that decision the feeling WILL follow.
Now these are only my views, your views are no less valuable and you are no less valuable. To me you are not devalued because of your views.
I agree Godssonjp it probably will.
Got a hole carved out some where Reb? Head fer tha hills boys.
River |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 352
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 10:46 am: | |
I think I'm going to want to fall in a hole this Sabbath. Even though I want to attend SDB church I will be going with my wife to SDA church this coming Sabbath. I would bet dollars to donut holes, because of this statement from the Pope that Adventists will misinterpret there will be Sunday Law paranoia and I am thinking there is at least a 50% chance Sunday Laws will be the topic. I kinda hope it will be as I think my wife will realise why I so object to going to SDA church and maybe I won't have to do the alternate Sabbaths betweeen SDB/SDA church.
She is sick and tired of hearing about the Sunday Law stuff herself and it just might make her want to try SDB church with me. I am praying that she will eventually want to just try it and see the difference.
While my son and I were waiting for him to take the entrance exam for Catholic High School he made a clever remark where he said he wondered if the Adventists find out he is going to Catholic school if they will think he is in on "planning the Sunday Laws." He's a very clever kid. He told me when he was 5yrs. old he had already figured out there was something "not quite right" with Adventism.
By the way speaking of Sunday Laws, I will never forget a sermon I hear last summer by an elderly Adventist pastor who was visiting from the Phillipines. It was a 45 minute rant about the Sunday Laws coming and how the Catholic Church was having "secret meetings" in Brazil planning on how they will implement Sunday Laws. It was basically a "get ready for prison" message. Yecch! |
Jeremiah
Registered user
Username: Jeremiah
Post Number: 250
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 10:55 am: | |
I wonder how long SDAism will go on, thinking the Sunday law is just around the corner now. Could it last another 100 years? I sort of doubt it... or at least it will mainly consist of die-hards who aren't very well educated except in the SDA materials. More and more young people will probably leave as time goes on.
I'm pretty sure I know some young people who'll likely be SDA for their entire lifetime. If it wasn't for the Internet I myself would probably either be die-hard SDA or have given up entirely on religion now. More than likely I'd be SDA. I'd probably be an SDA missionary somewhere!
Jeremiah |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 354
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 11:04 am: | |
So how do you like the Orthodox Church, Jeremiah? I had actually considered the Orthodox Church in my journey out of Adventism and attended some liturgies at an Orthodox Church in Riverside, CA where there was a family that was ex-SDA attending.
I really liked the Orthodox Church and I think they have something there about the "apostolic succession".
But I had to attend it "under the radar" as it would have been absolutely unacceptable to my wife, and I felt so guilty about "sneaking" there that, for the sake of peace in my home and inability to wait(I couldn't stand Adventist church any longer at that point), and not being smart enough to even try to convince her on certain things I had to stop going.
I've found a happy medium in the SDB church now. I really like it, feel spiritually fed and it least it is somewhat acceptable to my wife and there is peace in my home. |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 386
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 11:06 am: | |
Reb,
Sunday laws would actually be a good thing for Seventh-day Adventists because it would be:
1. A sign that the "end is near".
2. Opportunity for Adventists to start participating in religious meeting on Sundays without the threat of receiving the Mark of the Beast.
quote:"The light given me by the Lord at a time when we were expecting just such a crisis as you seem to be approaching was that when the people were moved by a power from beneath to enforce Sunday observance, Seventh-day Adventists were to show their wisdom by refraining from their ordinary work on that day, devoting it to missionary effort."
"At one time those in charge of our school at Avondale inquired of me, saying: 'What shall we do? The officers of the law have been commissioned to arrest those working on Sunday.' I replied: 'It will be very easy to avoid that difficulty. Give Sunday to the Lord as a day for doing missionary work. Take the students out to hold meetings in different places, and to do medical missionary work. They will find the people at home and will have a splendid opportunity to present the truth. This way of spending Sunday is always acceptable to the Lord.'" Testimonies, vol. 9 pp. 232, 238
See also http://www.ellenwhite.org/egw22.htm
Gilbert Jorgensen |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 355
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 11:11 am: | |
Yes, I am aware that EGW actually said those things.
So they actually contradict themselves. EGW encouraged the SDAs to do EXACTLY the SAME thing Methodists, Baptists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Anglicans, Catholics, Orthodox, etc. were doing on Sunday. |
Jeremiah
Registered user
Username: Jeremiah
Post Number: 251
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:08 pm: | |
I am happy to be in the Orthodox Church, Reb. Yes, we do have a succession of bishops from the ones ordained by the Apostles.
My decision to be Orthodox was based almost totally on my studies. It's not an "easy" church to be part of, but there's certainly some solidity in doctrine and practice there. Orthodoxy is to Christianity what the Marines are to our military.
I love knowing that the way I worship is the way the Apostles worshiped! I love the non-judgmental attitude, where nobody has any reason to judge their brother because we realize our salvation is based on the mercy of God. I love that we remember those who have gone before us... in our church calendar we remember the martyrs, whether their death was in the 1st century or the 20th century. We know many of their names, and some things about their lives. This gives us a sense that we are really part of the universal church, the family of God, whether in heaven or on earth.
I love being able to pick authors from every century and find that they describe the same experience that I can have today. And that they believe the same things.
It helps my faith to realize that what was given by Jesus in the beginning has been preserved to this day.
Orthodoxy would be really scary for an SDA because of the state of the dead issue. You go into an Orthodox church and you'll see icons of saints all over the place! And the Orthodox are so "weird"!
Jeremiah |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 357
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:23 pm: | |
Jeremiah, the things you mentioned are things I liked about the Orthodox Church. I think there really is something there and I agree the Orthodox Church is the way the Apostles worshipped.
The state of the dead thing would be scary for an SDA and one of the reasons I realised my wife would really object to my becoming Orthodox.
She even has a problem with the SDB view on that as well, but doesn't argue about it we have come to agree to disagree.
I HAD to get out of Adventism, and unfortumately If I had waited until my wife would have been ready to accept me going to Orthodox Church, I'd still be waiting and I couldn't afford to do that. Adventism was beginning to have a deliterious effect on my mental health and I could not afford to have that happen.
Sometimes half a loaf is better than none. I am much happier in the SDB church than I was or ever would have been in the SDA. I'm being fed and it's working for me and my wife is at least accepting it.
The Orthodox would have been my first choice, though, but sometimes you have to settle for your second choice. The most important thing is that I have a relationship with Christ that I didn't and couldn't have had as an Adventist and I praise God for that. |
Jeremiah
Registered user
Username: Jeremiah
Post Number: 253
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:32 pm: | |
Even if you tried to become Orthodox, they would be hesitant to accept you unless your wife was ok with it. They are concerned about people, rather than statistics and numbers.
I enjoyed my time exploring the Baptists. They are good people and generally are serious about being Christian.
If God wants you to become Orthodox, there'll be a way, sometime. There's really no rush though, the Church has been around for 2000 years and isn't going to go anywhere anytime soon.
Jeremiah |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 360
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:43 pm: | |
That's true Jeremiah. His will be done.
I am happy and being spiritually fed in a Baptist Church, I believe that may be where He wants me to be, at least for the time being. |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 152
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 7:59 am: | |
My wife is Catholic. I was a Catholic myself until 18. Follwed by 30 years of SDA.
I respect her beliefs. It is simple as that.
I worry about the Catholic church someday challenging my Marrage of 29 years because we did not marry in a Catholic church. But so far. My wife is neutral about that and satisfied like it is.
Maryroses:
*source of authoritative interpretation and teaching*
That is the whole point about all belief systems.
Establishing validation and authority.
Fact is , people cannot even decide on that starting point either.
We talked about roots on a recent essay.
Let's face it . Catholics have DEEEEEEEEEP roots.
I am familiar with being a Catholic. It has the atmosphere of trust, safety, authority, tradition, completion, beauty, art, worship, bigger than life, presense, ambience, awe, mystery, magisty. It has history, roots and great numbers.
Certainly , I understand it. I envy it, I long for that in a church.
If God wants me there again. So be it.
But I am not able to get there yet because of conflicts on doctrine and scripture.
I just want to say, I understand your faith.
Jim |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 371
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 8:02 am: | |
There are things I like about the RCC.
The one problem I have with it is the Pope thing.
I can't accept the Pope idea.
But that notwithstanding I do think the RCC gets a lot more things right, and certainly has far less errors than Adventism. |
Marysroses
Registered user
Username: Marysroses
Post Number: 95
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 3:50 pm: | |
Thanks Jim and Reb, and everyone else too.
I understand where you guys are coming from.
Personally, its just harder than I thought, sometimes, to be on a forum where "Catholic" gets tossed around as a pejorative. Not trying to be critical of anyone, its just emotionally hard to bear.
My experience is that a lot of what people really hate are caricatures of my faith, not what I personally believe.
Catholics who don't educate themselves often see protestant beliefs in caricature as well.
At the same time there are real differences and we will not be able to resolve them all this side of Heaven I don't suppose.
I like River's idea that our bonds are of Love in Christ.
MarysRoses |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6314
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 4:35 pm: | |
MarysRoses, I think often of how brave you are to stick with us! I love your insight, and I agree with River that we are bound by love in Christ. I'm so glad you're among us!
Colleen |
Philharris
Registered user
Username: Philharris
Post Number: 117
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 6:36 pm: | |
MarysRoses,
I agree with Colleen and River. Yes, what binds us is the love of Jesus Christ. And, I to love your insights.
Your Brother in Christ,
Phil |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 156
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 6:12 am: | |
Maryroses,
You are an ambassador. Your Views are important.
I am glad you are here.
Jim |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 3986
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 7:49 am: | |
MaryRoses, I was surprised to see you post on here. I am glad you have stuck around.
My favorite uncle, my mom's side, is a Catholic priest. When he was in California for a family reunion, everyone went to Mass, as it was arranged for him to lead it that day. He is from Mexico and the reunion committee had to do some fancy foot work to arrange this.
I never really believed everything the SDA church said about Catholics because of this uncle. I love him very much.
Diana |
Marysroses
Registered user
Username: Marysroses
Post Number: 100
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 7:52 am: | |
Thanks for all the support.
I love being here.
MarysRoses |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 399
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 11:54 am: | |
Unity in diversity is our strength. The search for truth is our common goal. I really appreciate all of the different viewpoints here.
Gilbert Jorgensen |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 3990
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 4:06 pm: | |
Gilbert,
I really do agree with you. We do have a diversity of opinion here and the search for truth is our goal. Thank God for the unity in diversity.
Diana |
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