| Author | Message | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 328 Registered: 5-2007 |
When I was an Adventist and believed in it there were things that I didn't like, even when I believed them: The state of the dead doctrine. The Sunday Laws. The "remnant church" idea and the seperation form the rest of Christendom. The food laws The sermons which were a lot of times to reinforce Adventisms "peculiar" doctrines rather than preach the Gospel. The Investigative Judgement. Yet I would tell myself, yes, this stuff isn't cool, I don't like it but it IS the TRUTH and I have to accept it or I don't even have that .001% chance of eternal life. Did any of y'all think like this when you were Adventists? | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 68 Registered: 4-2007 |
When I was an Adventist and believed in it there were things that I didn't like, even when I believed them: The state of the dead doctrine. DIDN’T THINK ABOUT IT MUCH – KINDA FIGURED I’D FIND OUT WHEN I CROAKED The Sunday Laws. INITIALLY – SOON CONCLUDED IT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN The "remnant church" idea and the separation form the rest of Christendom. REALLY DISTASTEFUL The food laws ACTUALLY THE (MOSTLY) VEGGIE DIET REALLY HELPED SOME DIGESTION PROBLEMS I HAD BEEN EXPERIENCING – NEVER CONSIDERED IT TO BE A BIBLICAL MANDATE The sermons which were a lot of times to reinforce Adventisms "peculiar" doctrines rather than preach the Gospel. BORING – NAP TIME The Investigative Judgment. IN 35 YEARS NEVER HEARD IT DISCUSSED IN CHURCH AS SUCH – NOT UNTIL THESE FORUMS – MAYBE I HAD SELECTIVE HEARING Yet I would tell myself, yes, this stuff isn't cool, I don't like it but it IS the TRUTH and I have to accept it or I don't even have that .001% chance of eternal life. Did any of y'all think like this when you were Adventists? TO BE HONEST, I WAS A BADVENTIST – I BASICALLY PICKED AND CHOSE WHAT TO ME MADE SENSE, AND IGNORED THE REST – I TAILORED ADVENTISM TO FIT ME – NOW IT’S CHOPPED UP, FULL OF HOLES AND OLD PATCHES – IT HAS BECOME UNWEARABLE. HOWEVER I DID HAVE A VAGUE UNEASINESS ABOUT MY SALVATION. COULDN’T FIND ANYTHING TO HANG ON TO – EVERYTHING APPEARED TO BE A BEWILDERING ARRAY OF CONTRADICTIONS. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 22 Registered: 7-2007 |
As to myself, I firmly believed it. I didn't know too much about the investigative judgment, but I "knew" it existed. I didn't like reading much of Ellen White's writings because they were so HEAVY and made me feel guilty - you know all those rules against not going to the theater, not drinking water with meals, not eating spices, etc. I "kept" the Sabbath or at least tried to somewhat. It was a burden though. So was reading the labels of the foods I bought to make sure there was no animal shortening (lard) in it. I thought the end-of-the-world-Sunday-law was kind of exciting and looked forward to it, though I dreaded the thought of the agony of mind that God's people were supposed to go through in "the time of Jacob's trouble." It was a great relief to find out that the Sabbath and "unclean" meats were simply shadows.  Dianne | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 511 Registered: 11-2004 |
When I was an Adventist and believed in it there were things that I didn't like, even when I believed them: The state of the dead doctrine. - I fully believed it The Sunday Laws. - I fully believed it The "remnant church" idea and the seperation form the rest of Christendom. - I fully believed it until I actually started to get to know Sunday Christians The food laws - It didn't make much of a difference to me. I was raised totally void of meat and had no desire to ever eat any kind of meat. The sermons which were a lot of times to reinforce Adventisms "peculiar" doctrines rather than preach the Gospel. - Bothered me big time especially toward the end of my time in Adventism. I brought this up to others and it didn't seem to be a big deal to them. The Investigative Judgement. - I didn't fully understand this as an SDA. I had no idea that SDAs believed in an incomplete atonement. | ||
| Jay_g Registered user Username: Jay_g Post Number: 8 Registered: 7-2007 |
I wasn't aware of the implications of the Investigate Judgment. I believed that Christ going into the most holy place was a sign of the end. I remember much more clearly that being explained as the reason we didn't wear jewelry. I know there was the idea that Christ was examining the books, but never that you could still be alive and be judged. Too me it was much more like when people use Santa to force good behavior on their very young children. "Santa is watching you... You better be good" I remember having an argument with someone about the Church being the Remnant Church when I was in college. I said something to the effect of "Look around do you believe THIS is GOD's ONLY Remnant/chosen Church?" And he "Proved" to me with the Bible that since we were the only church to keep the commandments and receive the gift of prophecy we had to be the remnant. I never understood the importance of the reserection if you immediately go to heaven when you die. The Bible always seemed confusing about the state of the dead. Did Lazarus say "the dead know nothing" or did we get that from EGW? The problem I've had in recent years is with our old Pastor. An older retired man, who I really like, but I've gone to a number of funerals he has done including my Grandfather and my Cousin's Husband. The one that really bothered me was my Cousin's husband, he may or may not have been a Christian but was certainly not an SDA or from an SDA background, and the service repeated over and other, that "WE KNOW the Dead know Nothing". At the time I hadn't understood the Gospel the way I feel I do now. I had believed that at best we don't know what happens, at least let this kids Mom think that he's in heaven with Jesus. Much better than in a box getting eaten the worms until the 2nd coming. It bothered me less when he said the same stuff about my Grandfather who I know believed 100% that he was saved but wasn't expected to rise again until Jesus came back for him. I was never into the Food thing as a point of salvation, never a vegitarian, but didn't eat most of the unclean stuff, I still really love some veggie foods. Prosage is one of my all time favorite foods. There was a Pizza place near the college that served Prosage Pizza. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6277 Registered: 12-2003  |
Actually, I was never completely sure about the IJ, but I figured it MIGHT be true. If it were true, I had to pay attention--and that led to all my neruotic, OCD fixations on confession and fear of forgetting a sin and worrying I had committed the unpardonable sin sort-of by accident. I never believed we had to be vegetarian (although we mostly were) because my mom taught me that clean meats were not sin (she had grown up on an angus/wheat farm in Saskatchewan, and her family had butchered their own beef and chickens and turkeys, etc.). But the unclean meats--I totally believed they were sin. I didn't start to really doubt some of these things until I was near 30, but even then, I had to hedge my bets. They MIGHT be true, y'know! If I blew them off and they were true, I'd be toast. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1035 Registered: 9-2006  |
I know you all are serious but sometimes this stuff just seems so comical such as what Colleen said about “y'know! If I blew them off and they were true, I'd be toast.” Kind of puts me in the mind of when I was a kid, I was afraid of the dark at night, afraid something might jump out at me and I have to admit, as an adult, I am still a little bit afraid of the dark. I love you guy’s and besides that you keep me entertained and smiling. River | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 868 Registered: 1-2003 |
When I was an Adventist and believed in it there were things that I didn't like, even when I believed them: The state of the dead doctrine. I totally believed the dead knew nothing and felt superior to those who thought their loved ones were in heaven. I felt "special" to know the "truth". The Sunday Laws. I spent hours agonizing over how I would get to the mountains with no gas! I was told by my mother-in-law that I would have to be prepared to let my kids die for the Sabbath! I couldn't understand how I could do this!!! The "remnant church" idea and the seperation form the rest of Christendom. Again...I felt superior to common christians. We had the "prophet", the "health message", etc. Tearing the Body of Christ apart is not of God. Division is of the Devil. I also have a problem with the recent statement made by the Pope that the Catholics are the "only true church". Poppycock! The food laws I tried to conform...I didn't eat pork until I was older...then I hid it. In fact, I pretended to be a vegetarian to my in-laws for years!!! The sermons which were a lot of times to reinforce Adventisms "peculiar" doctrines rather than preach the Gospel. Tithing. 9 times out of 10, the sermon was on tithing! Or it made no sense...total confusion with little scripture. What scripture there was was ripped out of context or was a snippet! I got so sick of long winded prayers thanking God for the Sabbath and never mentioning Jesus!!! The Investigative Judgement. Figured I was lost. I couldn't be perfect...I even prayed once for Jesus to take me. I had subdued the flesh, was keeping Sabbath pretty well and knew I would eventually backslide...so I asked Him to just "take me now" so I could be saved! Crazy, huh? And I had kids who depended on me. | ||
| Lucybugg Registered user Username: Lucybugg Post Number: 40 Registered: 2-2007 |
Before I had children I was a nominal Adventist, but once I had them I tried to "toe the line." I agonized over bringing innocent children in the world and the possibility that they would be taken from me in the time of trouble. I discussed it with my mother and she said that's one of the hazards of having children. I never understood the IJ but lived in fear of unconfessed, forgotten sin. It got to the point that my prayers contained only pleadings for forgiveness...not praise, not glory just pleading. My exit from the church coincided with the 3rd quarter SS lesson on 1844 and the IJ. I was SS superintendent at the time and my remarks in SS were not appreciated especially the one regarding the time of the decree because it plainly stated in Isaiah who would make the decree. I, too, felt special and superior because I knew the real truth about the state of the dead. Whenever someone said something about a dead loved on being in heaven I just nod my head and think to myself..what a fool. As far as the remant church..I felt superior about that too until I realized the deception taking place. I was never super strict about the food laws simply because I had eaten pork until I joined the church. I ate it over the years but never in front of my family or my husband's family. Now I occasionally eat it but never in front of my mother simply out of respect for her. The Appearing by Penney Estes Wheeler scared the living daylights out of me! I was a teenager when it came out, and I lived in fear of having to somehow get to the mountains to hide if I were separated from my family. I also was horrified at the thought that my own father might be the very one who would betray us or turn us in. Adventism is nothing but a lie based on fear. | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 334 Registered: 5-2007 |
Intersting, Lucybugg. That same 1844 and IJ Quartely was what started my journey out if Adventism as well. I was a Sabbath School teacher at the time and spoke out against the IJ and tried to show where it is unBiblical. I could not get a straight answer from the Bible ALONE to support the IJ from any Adventist including one of my brothers-in-law who is an Adventist Pastor in Indonesia with a Ph.D. in theology. One of the other Sabbath school teachers at that time even admitted the IJ is the pillar of Adventism and there would be no reason for the SDA church without it. | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 70 Registered: 4-2007 |
Reb Wrote: "One of the other Sabbath school teachers at that time even admitted the IJ is the pillar of Adventism and there would be no reason for the SDA church without it." Actually the SDA church could survive just fine without the IJ - the majority of the members haven't a clue what it actually implies - the problem would be the source/support of this non-biblical theology - EGW. To get rid of the IJ would undermine her authority - that would definitely get the members in an uproar. JONVIL | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 84 Registered: 4-2007 |
You know Jonvil, I think you are right. But I'm not sure it would even undermine EGW. If plagiarism, historical inaccuracies and scandal haven't, what is one more theological peccadillo? I think they will survive just fine until something touches the real third rail of Adventism, - The sabbath. MarysRoses | ||
| Lucybugg Registered user Username: Lucybugg Post Number: 41 Registered: 2-2007 |
One of my brothers said he didn't care that I'm no longer an Adventist...that's not important to him. What's important to him (and apparently every other member of our SDA family) is that I find a "Sabbath keeping" church to go to. So I agree with MarysRoses | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 138 Registered: 5-2007 |
The Third Rail. Interesting term I been thinking about this entire conflict with the 10C. It comes down to this: People are cautious about the frame of the 10C as being a set. That God wrote it and that must certainly stand for something. Now the fact that Paul points out that the 10C were in verity the Covenant, along with the book of Moses seems fairly straight forward. But , it does not appear that the other writers touched on the topic. Thus , one can argue it was merely one Apostles "opinion". So I suppose the next step is to cross platform this concept outside of Paul's writings if that is possible. I know that it is quoted : I will write my Laws one their hearts.... But I have never been able to determine what laws or how they are defined. Collen touched on this on another string but I am not sure where it was. I wonder if there is a study on this one point. What are the laws written on the heart? A reflection of the old, etc... I have seen protestant writings that try to reincorporate the 10C platform. What a confusing task that is. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3970 Registered: 3-2004  |
When it comes to the Sunday Laws and the IJ, especially the IJ, I studied them throughout school, passed the tests with "A's" and then promptly forgot. What really scared me was reading the OT and what happened to the Israelites when they disobeyed. I quit reading the Bible for over 20 years because of what the OT said. We were told the SDA church is spiritual israel and the dire predictions made against the CoI scared me silly. When I went to Little Rock last month I read the book of Isaiah and this morning I read Lamentations. Wonderful books!! I am not spiritual israel. I am a child of God and no one or nothing can take me out of His hands. He will not let me go. Hallelujah. He is awesome. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6282 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jim, I have received an amazing short study done on the very subject you mention by Chris Badenhorst in South Africa. I just read it today, and I'm going to ask his permission to upload it onto this website on the Studies page. Two things: first, Paul is the apostle God appointed to explain how the New Covenant "works". His explanations are the most clear and detailed because He was God's appointed teacher of this subject: Ephesians 3:7-9: "I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God's grace given me through the working of his power. Although I am less than the least of all God's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things." God taught Paul and appointed him the task of explaining—of making plain to everyone—the administration of the New Covenant which is the mystery hidden for ages past. Paul goes on to explain that God's intent was to make known His "manifold wisdom" through the church according to his eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus. Paul was uniquely prepared and appointed to explain HOW the new covenant is administered. That's why his writings are so very clear. Sescond, John, as you'll see in the Badenhosrt article when we get it posted, was consistently clear throughout his five books in separating the Law (or Torah) from God's and Jesus' "Commandments" which reveal God's will for new covenant Christians. The law John always identifies as belonging to the Jews. Jesus' "commandments" are defined as loving one another as He loved us. Further, Jesus said he Himself did nothing except what the Father commanded Him to do. The Father was not feeding Jesus the 10 Commandments throughout his life. He was directly communicating to him His will. John's "commandments" never refer to the 10 Commandments. They always refer to Jesus' teachings or to God's commands to Jesus. When John meant the Law, he said "the Law". In John's books, Jesus gave Christ-followers new commandments. He did not bequeath to us the Law. God's morality is eternal; the law was a creation and was given at a specific time until Jesus came (Gal. 3). Colleen |
