| Author |
Message |
Marysroses
Registered user
Username: Marysroses
Post Number: 71
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 9:21 pm: |     |
Exactly right Jeremy,
Am I awful for thinking the Irony of Adventists in Hawaii going to church at the same 'time' as Kiribati Christians is a deliciously funny joke?
Ok, I'm terrible, I just find this funny in a really warped way...
MarysRoses |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 1923
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 9:22 pm: | |
It's incredible, isn't it? And don't the SDAs in Kiribati think that the SDAs in Hawaii are "apostate Sunday-keeping Babylonians"??!
Jeremy |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 3960
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 9:27 pm: | |
Hey Maryroses, you are not the only one who thinks of this as a "deliciously funny joke". I do to. But then I am told I have a warped sense of humor. I agree, that this is funny in a really warped way...
God is a god of order and I am sure glad that His rest is not a day, but a relationship with him. That is so much easier and saner.
Diana |
Philharris
Registered user
Username: Philharris
Post Number: 104
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 9:39 pm: | |
Now, consider this:
If you are standing dead on the North or South Pole, you are technically in all twenty-four time zones. And, to muddle things a little, we have both a true pole and a magnitic pole. Also, on the North Pole, the sun doesn't set in the summer and doesn't rise in the winter. You don't know what time it is. Your don't know what day it is. And, some of your days and nights stretch out a bit longer than you may wish. If your Sabbath began when the sun set for several months, well you are going to have a rather long rest.
I could keep going, but I think I may have made my point a long while back.
Thanks everybody for providing the added details.
Phil |
Marysroses
Registered user
Username: Marysroses
Post Number: 72
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 9:41 pm: | |
Another funny 'joke' is for all the sabbath angst among my SDA relatives, I probably attend church on Saturday more often than many of them. My usual time for weekly worship is 5 p.m. on SATURDAY.
MarysRoses |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 1020
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 6:21 am: | |
The way I see it the problem with going back to keep any part of the letter of the old covenant, of which the Sabbath is a part of Deuteronomy 4:13 "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
Deuteronomy 4:14 "And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that you might observe them in the land which you cross over to possess.
The rest being statutes and judgments, which were a part of that covenant (at least as far as I can understand) whether you are SDA, SDB, or a purple people eater, is that it only brings confusion as far as I can tell and not only that it takes away attention from Jesus and people begin milling around.
Now we know that God is not the author of confusion according to Corinthians I 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
I just don’t see how a people can be gathered together in the Lords name when there is so much confusion going on. Jesus says Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them."
How can people be gathered together in his name when there is so much confusion going and he is not the author of it?
Seems to me when we go back and take up the old covenant that’s where the confusion begins and to untie a tangle of string we have to find the end of the string and that, to my mind, is the end of the string.
River |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 1021
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 7:16 am: | |
I think that in tracing the history of Adventism we find that William Miller was a Sabbath keeper so he probably began to look for his answers about Jesus in the old testament and ignoring the new testament, kind of like digging through the attic to find a brand new book or digging through the wrecking yard to find a brand new car.
The Bible he had surely would have told him his vision was wrong, see Matthew 25:13 "Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming if he had only used the talents he had.
No doubt from reading his history he was an honest man and I believe he later recanted, then along comes Ellen and it goes downhill from there.
More confusion than you can shake a stick at, more visions, confusion over what to wear, what to eat, time of day in Norway, confusion on a grand scale and reaping the fruits of it, cognitive dissonance on a grand scale, soul winning for Adventism, baptism into Adventism, heartache and trouble within families and marriages and mothers and fathers and old friends on a grand scale as this forum will testify too, abandonment of long time ministers, cutting off their livelihood and ousting them from jobs and homes suddenly, causing their own to go looking blindly for fellowship and churches to attend.
There is a spiritual force that drives this confusion.
This, my friend is the results of all this confusion; at least it looks that way from where I sit today.
River |
Marysroses
Registered user
Username: Marysroses
Post Number: 73
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 7:31 am: | |
I don't think William Miller was ever a Sabbath keeper. I could be wrong, but I think he repudiated his prophecy views after 1844. They were however carried forward by others, who added to them. I think it was Joseph Bates who introduced the sabbath to James White. I could be wrong, I'm off to work and not looking this up to verify my memory.
I do agree about the confusion though, I'm *not* confused about it anymore, but sometimes going through all the twists and hoops has a bit of a therapeutic effect. I am still subject to quite a bit of pressure to convert (revert?) to adventism.
Its not that I'm insecure in my faith, its just that the pressure comes from people I love and that i'm not willing to cut all ties with. I feel I have a duty to aging relatives, regardless of their religious views, as well. I guess if I give in to a feeling of a bit of bitterness, its that my SDA brother has nothing to do with helping out, and in fact would be happy to financially exploit our parents if possible. Of course, he's the 'good son' because he mouths adventist beliefs (while never attending church and living a rather dissapated lifestyle). At least my mom has begun to see this, finally. That hasn't reduced the pressure on me about religion, but at least its something.
MarysRoses |
Philharris
Registered user
Username: Philharris
Post Number: 105
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 8:10 am: | |
Amen River, you are dead on target.
Having had some military training, the following passage is one of my favorites because it identifies who my true enemy is and how to prepare for battle.
Eph. 6:10-18 KJV
Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
I like it simple.
The attack weapon of choice is the Word of God, Jesus Christ.
John 1:1-4 KJV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Phil |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 1022
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 8:30 am: | |
I think Miller might have been a Seventh Day Baptist and probably came under the influence of Rachel Oakes Preston, however this is just a guess.
Some others surly have more knowledge of him, but still, that makes no difference,confusion is still confusion
Phil, I guess our military training will always be with us, however I don't see it as a drawback in any way, but a good addition to understanding what Paul preached and understanding also, our foe.
So right about our Armour Phil.
River |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 787
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 11:26 am: | |
From my memory, Marysroses is correct that William Miller was not a Sabbath-keeper, but that it was introduced to SDA's by Joseph Bates. I'm not sure where Rachel Oakes Preston fits in--maybe she is where Joseph Bates got it from.
Here is the Wikipedia link that gives the history of William Miller. [The link goes all the way through (preacher) but it isn't showing as part of the link in my post]. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Miller_(preacher)
William Miller was an American Baptist, not a Seventh-day Baptist. At some point in his life he was a Deist. When he returned to his American Baptist faith, his Deist friends challenged him to prove his beliefs from the Bible. So he started carefully studying the Bible from Genesis 1:1 and on through every verse - that's how he spent so much time in the Old Testament. And it was from this study he came up with his strange ideas about being able to calculate the timing of the Second Coming. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6258
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 12:50 pm: | |
Fascinating, Raven. Thank you for your research.
River, you are dead on target again. Confusion is the name of the Adventist game, and it is the result of a spiritual power. Confusion is never from God—and the focus on correct interpretation of every supposed rule of behavior leads people farther and farther away from being able to see Jesus.
I am so conscious lately of the fact that absolutely ANYTHING—even very good things including correct theology—can become an idol that eclipses Jesus. We have to stay surrendered at the foot of the cross, submitting everything we do and believe to Jesus on an ongoing basis. He alone can save us and satisfy us and keep us in reality and truth.
Phil, so true about our armor. That armor is God's provision for us, and we need to thank Him and put it on continually.
Colleen |
Gcfrankie
Registered user
Username: Gcfrankie
Post Number: 24
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 9:39 am: | |
I think I have posted this before but I think it is worth repeating. I got this out of a study book in the introduction to Galations, "When men and women get their hands on religion, one of the first things they often do is turn it into an instrument for controlling others, either putting or keeping them in their place." Isn't this called confusion and what the SDA church does?
Gail |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 317
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 9:56 am: | |
You got that right, Gail! |
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