| Author | Message | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 131 Registered: 5-2007 |
I have heard that in the "New Covenant" Christian era we are under "moral laws" that have been reinstated. Reinstated: Is that an external term applied to the Bible? You see this whole debate is about wondering if it is safe to pick up that live wire called the law and toss it aside as harmless. I need to know what is hot and what is cold.What is safe and what is accountable to action. When I read scripture in the NT. It surely does not seem that any sin is no longer applicable. Given that. How can we be so certain that the Sabbath is neutralized. Can you point me to passages in the NT that can establish this conclusion? We place a lot of emphasis on Solo Scripture. That is why I tend to refrain from any term that is extra biblical. Extra Biblical terms are fine for communication purposes. But they must be presented along with the Conclusive scriptures that mean or say exactly that. In a similar thread: When God writes upon our hearts. Is that saying we are merely bringing to mind (recalling) scriptural law we have previously read, or does it mean that (assuming I had no written word at all), Gods "selected and desired law , applicable for me personally in conjunction with His will for me and my circumsance is my law? If so , how do I know when I have it right, when the message is received correctly? Many propose a behaviour acceptance to some component of their life on the basis of a standing they have in Christ. Thus they have a law unto themselves. Is that safe? I am all over the place here, but understand , I am referring to trying to understand what it means to have the law written on our minds/hearts. What does that actually mean? | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 36 Registered: 7-2007 |
well, right now I have to go. But when I come back I'm going to show you bible passages that may help you understand. I showed my roommates cousin who was recently baptised in the SDA church about the sabbath. I recommend you read galatians chapter 3, romans 7, 2 corinthians 3 and colossians chapter 2 for now. Also exodus chapters 20 to 31 is the old covenant. the old covenant is described in those chapters in exodus. Also when you read Exodos 31 you realize the sabbath was only given to Isreal. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 783 Registered: 7-2004  |
I don't think it's so much that anything was "reinstated". It's more that it's an eternal principle that God is Love, and anything outside of that concept always has been and always will be sin. The 10 Commandments and any other command from God (except ones of a ceremonial nature such as the Sabbath, or temporary ones for a specific purpose such as tithing) all proceeded out of the concept of Love -- love God and love others. Obviously there are components of the Sabbath and tithing that are related to loving God or others, but they are not inherently 24/7 modes of operation or for all people at all times. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6234 Registered: 12-2003  |
Jim, the problem we have as mortals is that we tend to see God as similar to us except "more so". In reality, God is completely OTHER. He is not human nor mortal nor physical. He is eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God (1 Timothy 1:17). God is also omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent. He is Light and Life and Truth. (I know this seems like "Duh!"--but stick with me!) Understanding that God is not like us--is of a different "substance", nature, and realm makes the incarnation a singularity, in the best scientific meaning of the word. In was an unrepeatable, unreplicable event, and reality inside of time is completely different on both sides of this singularity. This "Other" in the person of Jesus Christ eternally united Himself with humanity. Jesus is as God as if He were not human, and He is as human as if He were not God [thank you, Mary, for that description!]. One Mediator "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5). Jesus, because of this singular act of uniting Himself as fully God with humanity, became the mediator between humans, who were disconnected from God by their sin, and the Trinity (which, of course, included Himself). Literally in the person of Jesus this mystery was accomplished: God became one with man, and thus God and man have communion and intimacy after millennia of being separated my human sin. Now, before the incarnation, God was preparing humanity for the coming of the Mediator. Humanity, though, had no idea of Who God really was. They had largely lost the knowledge of God as well as the knowledge of their own sin (see Romans 1 and 4:12-14). But God Himself IS all Light, Goodness, Truth, Reality, and Morality. When He created Adam and Eve and made them in His image, He created them with spirits with which they could worship and know Him--not just personally but spiritually. This spirit died when Adam and Eve sinned, and Jesus emphasized this fact when he told Nicodemus that he had to be born again, that flesh gives birth to flesh, but Spirit gives birth to spirit (John 3:4-6). He further emphasized this fact when He told the woman at the well that God is Spirit, and true worshipers must worship God in spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24). Law Protected and Taught Israel When God set in motion His revelation of His redemption, forgiveness, and the coming Messiah, he started by creating a people, rescuing them from oppression and slavery, and giving them written law. He also gave them His own presence in the form of the Shekinah glory in the tabernacle/temple. This law and personal presence of Himself protected Israel from being sucked back into slavery and abuse. Because God revealed Himself and gave them the written law, they had His provision for understanding how to set boundaries around themselves from the abuses of the surrounding pagans. If they honored their own national laws God gave them, they could keep themselves from the seduction of idolatry and the deception of alliances with evil. God gave them a way to know the difference between good and evil. But this law was not eternal. It was hand written--partly by God, partly by Moses. It DERIVED from God's own self--but it was not God. Galatians 3 tells us the law came 430 years AFTER Abraham until the Seed would come. Embedded in this law was the Sabbath remembrance. This remembrance was simply an act of obedience Israel was expected to observe to demonstrate that they accepted God's provision and authority over them. It was the shadow of the coming Messiah. It promised them ultimate rest and ultimate defeat of oppression and slavery and struggle against evil. Israel, of course, couldn't keep this law--and they couldn't keep it because they were still spiritually disconnected from God. Yes, God revealed Himself to anyone with a desire to serve Him. But God's revelation to the Israelites was still partially veiled. He was with them, but He was not IN them, as Jesus later said to His disciples (John 14:17). Israel could believe in God's promises, as did Abraham, and when they believed Him and submitted to Him by faith, God counted that to them as righteousness (Romans 4:1-5). Israel anticipated; we experience But there was still a limit to what believing Israelites could actually know and do. They were worshiping God, but they were looking FORWARD to the coming incarnation—although they did not understand that their coming Redeemer would actually be the God who led them out of Egypt. They were accepting God and His redemption by faith. The law stood as a relentless reminder that they were broken sinners who could do no good on their own. Sin still reigned in them--even though God accepted those who trusted His promises and counted their faith as righteousness. When Jesus came, however, everything changed--just as everything changes on the other side of the event horizon of a black hole (not that the incarnation was a black hole, but you get the idea!). Jesus as all of God and all of man became sin, shed human blood, took Divine responsibility for all of our brokenness, and opened a way for sinful man to be eternally reunited with God. The blood of Jesus is the "new and living way" for us to reach God. After Jesus defeated death and ascended to the Father, another completely new thing happened: Pentecost. Because Jesus shed His blood into eternity, all who trust Him and believe in Him are INDWELT by God. The Holy Spirit—who is also All of God—literally inhabits us and brings our spirits to life. In the New Covenant, the Holy Spirit Himself is the Law written on our hearts. Before Israel, humanity had no written law of God, and they fast forgot God's moral requirements because their spirits were dead in sin and disconnected from God. God gave the law and formed a nation who could begin to understand Who He was and would prepare for the coming Redeemer. Israel's law was to remind them of their deep sin and to be an in their face reminder that they were absolutely deperaved and desperate. It continually condemned them to death because they could never live up to its demands. Only by trust God's promises which were beyond the law did they have hope and could they be counted righteous. Jesus is our Judge; not the law Now, however, Jesus has come. He has defeated death and become our curse. When we trust Him we are freed from the curse of the written law and from its authority over us. Now, in Christ, Jesus in the person of the Holy Spirit becomes our Law. The law foreshadowed Jesus and condemned us to death. When we are in Christ, God Himself is the Law. He writes Himself on our hearts. Israel's law originated from God—but God now gives us something 'way bigger—Himself. And, because our consciences have been warped from our inherent sin, God also gives us His word which spells out His expectations for us. But God's written word is no longer our law. It is our source of teaching us God's will, but it is no longer our law. Jesus Himself is our judge. The law is not. His Spirit convicts us of truth and gives us literal life in our formerly dead spirits. Enter Sabbath rest TODAY As for the Sabbath—Hebrews 4 spells out that Israel never entered God's rest, even though they had the Sabbath command, even though they inhabited Israel, and even though many of them trust God and were counted righteous. No, Israel never entered God's rest because they couldn't before the coming of Jesus. They could only anticipate God's rest by the remembrance of it shadow: the Sabbath. Now, however, God gives us another day, TODAY. Now, whenever we enter God's rest by placing our trust in the Lord Jesus, we enter God's rest. This, according to Hebrews 4:9-10, is the Sabbath-rest for the people of God. This rest was not possible before Jesus came and shed His blood into eternity, in a singular act that completely changed all of creation and all of reality, as God-joined-with-man, and died our death, rising again and releasing us from the power of death and giving us His life. He took our death; He gave us His life. Now we are united with God eternally, in Christ. The written law is obsolete. It had been merely a shadow of God's Person and expectations and morality and righteousness. It was given as a temporary measure to prepare a people to know and receive the Savior. Sin defeated in us But the Savior has come! He has restored us to Himself, and He Himself is our Teacher, Savior, Law, Righteousness, Sabbath rest—we nee ONLY Jesus! Unless a person is in Christ, the curse of the law still hangs over their heads. When a person is in Christ, however, He replaces the curse and gives them Life—Himself. When we are in Christ, the power of sin is broken in us because our dead spirits are no longer dead. They are transferred from the domain of darkness into the kingom of God's beloved Son (Col 1:13). While our flesh still is not redeemed and tempts us to sin, we now have the power of the life of Jesus IN US. We finally have His power to resist sin and live in life. Sin is defeated in the indwelling life of Christ. Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1144 Registered: 4-2000  |
Jim, I think you are referring to the Old Testament moral laws that are reiterated in the New Testament (some of them several times). From the Decalogue alone, nine moral directives were reiterated in the New Testament. Jesus expanded some of these moral directives that gave them even more weight and relevance for Christian living (exempla gratiae, the Seventh Commandment to include even lusting or actively thinking about commiting adultery). Indeed, the New Covenant provides a higher standard of righteousness than the Old Covenant could provide. Although the Decalogue (as a unit) and the entire Torah of 613 laws (as a unit) ended at the Cross, the moral laws of God are binding wherever in Scripture we find them. Moral laws are those in effect 24/7 (every nanosecond of time) not merely once a year, season, month, or week. Obviously, for the Decalogue to be a basic summary of the entire Torah, it would need to have a clear ceremonial aspect to it as found in its Fourth Commandment. Furthermore, moral laws are those that are NEVER trumped by acts of charity, mercy, or necessity as the ceremonial laws are repeatedly in Scripture. Also, moral laws do not undergo any basic changes from one covenant to another (i.e., murder is still murder, coveting is still coveting, honoring our parents is still honoring our parents, and stealing is still stealing).
Dennis Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6247 Registered: 12-2003 |
Well said, Dennis. I don't know if I've been confusing in my statement of this concept, but I want to be clear that it is JESUS who supercedes the law—not the New Testament. The Old Testament is still God's word for us. We would have no way to understand the revelation of the New Testament if we didn't also know the Old Testament. While the New Testament is a more complete revelation than the Old, the OT is still God's word to us. The secret is that we interpret the OT—as well as the New—through the reality of Jesus. Since the NT was written by God's appointed authors who were eyewitnesses to Him and to the founding of the church, it is presented from the perspective of Jesus and His completed work. It becomes the lens for interpreting the OT. But the OT will always be God's word and revelation to us just as much as is the NT. When Jesus fulfilled the law, He did not dispense with His own eternal morality. All of God's moral principles are eternal. He fulfilled the demands of the law, and He places Himself in us and thus becomes the Living Law in us. His indwelling Spirit teaches us God's will and intentions as we study His whole word to us. And we find that this indwelling Holy Spirit always reveals Jesus to us, no matter what part of the Bible we are studying! Colleen |
