| Author | Message | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 130 Registered: 5-2007 |
If I conclude that we are no longer under a command to tithe. I assume that we are free to determine what we should give and to whom. I have seen and read many suggestions that say God owns it all. While this may be a truth, it does not help me to arrive at a peace of mind about what God would have me do. Because it is "open ended". An SDA trademark. Ok, I admitt, I want things spelled out so I don't have to think about it. But on the more practical side. I want to be able to act with a clear mind and have a conviction that I am being balanced , reasonable and above all , God approves. This is hard to do when most churches preach tithe. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1010 Registered: 9-2006  |
For one thing Jim you are posting to many subjects to fast and I am afraid that might cloud your issues, IMHO Jim, not trying to tell you what to do. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6235 Registered: 12-2003  |
Jim, ask the Lord Jesus to reveal His will to you...and ask Him to give you Sabbath rest and peace in your heart so you don't feel anxious about having all your ducks in a row! (I say this because I know how I have been...I have to have everything figured out!) Jesus asks us to allow Him to teach us and reveal His will in His time. You can just rest without having to know where and how much to give for a time. God will clarify to you where he wants you to give. When Richard and I left Adventism in the late 90s, we didn't know for quite some time where to give our money. We resolved the problem temporarily by just setting it aside in a "giving account". We just let it build up for several months while God moved us and planted us. He eventually led us to give part of that money to a specific project. You can trust Him. Just hold onto your "giving" money for a while and allow God to work in your life. He really will deal with you one "layer" at a time. You don't have to resolve the giving issue right now. When the time comes to give, God will impress you. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3941 Registered: 3-2004  |
I "ditto" what Colleen says. Stop and let God tell you know what He wants. God does not give us all the answers all at once. He reveals only what we need to know. At least that is how he worked with me. Glad you are here. Diana | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1145 Registered: 4-2000  |
The Gospel breeds generosity wherever it takes root. Dennis Fischer | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1015 Registered: 9-2006 |
A most excellent point there Dennis, if a person tithes or gives out of a bitter, stingy, or unwilling heart he may as well not give at all. River | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 133 Registered: 5-2007 |
River, I get your point about too many subjects at one time. But please understand. They are the same ones I have been stuck on for at least two years. There is a (personal research)tension in place on these topics. A lot of ground work already invested. Colleen, I have been holding my giving money in my Bible for the meantime. But it is stacking up. I want to release it as I do not want to be guilty of holding back. My doubts are simply if I redesignate it I worry that I will have created a trap of debt from my mistake after the fact. I am legalism prone. I had more than once started to send it all to the SDA just to get rid of it. But then the thought occcured to me, I remain caught and nothing has changed. I feel God is wanting me to step out in faith. I am trying so hard to listen and I have my own ideas and desires how I want to give. I have to get off the HOLD on this. (Message edited by jim02 on July 10, 2007) | ||
| Cloudy Registered user Username: Cloudy Post Number: 13 Registered: 7-2007 |
Jim, I understand your point about wanting it all "spelled out so I don't have to think about it. " Some people are more comfortable with the quantifiable concrete (e.g. engineers) They can be uncomfortable with the subjective "give from the heart". And this is not because their hearts are stingy or unwilling, it is because they are concrete thinkers. It is so easy in the SDA church where that is all spelled out for you. No need to think about it because a committee of administrators has already done that for you. It is a business transaction in every sense of the word. I was personally dismayed when I realized how much of the SDA tithes and even many offerings go to support administrative functions. How political it could be that decisions to fund pastors, etc. were made based on tithe calculations. A business professor at LLU gave his opinion as a former pastor and administrator that the denomination is way too top heavy with all the levels of conferences, etc and the individual church members have no power. He suggested that change in the church would only come if you voted with your $; they would eventually have no choice but change if the $ dried up. I started to give my tithe to the local conference instead of the gc. When I lived in so cal the pastor of the church I attended would quietly recommend that the tithe be diverted to a local fund which would more directly benefit that church. Articles in our local conference newsletter often focus on tithing trends with charts and statistics done up like the business report that it is. The bridge you are trying to cross is moving from the business transaction model to the Spirit-led model. You want to give "the right" amount, give it to "the right" place that God approves. The New Testament doed not give you those directives. You have money you have been laying aside for God and you do not know how to send it to Him? Where are you being fed spiritually? Is there a ministry that you are aware of that is spreading the gospel that you would like to support? I would suggest you give your money to those churches/ ministries. | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 132 Registered: 8-2005 |
Jim, Have you considered using the money you have set aside for a ministry that you feel is a particular blessing to you or to others? What about using some of that money to help a family in need? When my wife and I left Adventism, we had quite a bit of money accumulating and nowhere to send it. I support a couple of Reformed ministries, but still had a fair amount left over. The local paper did a story on a family in the area that was in a difficult way. Their two college age children were coming home for a weekend and were in a horrible accident which left them both in a vegitative state. Both parents took a leave of absence from their job to care for the children. The local church members (from the two or three churches in the small town) were providing food, taking care of the home, paying the electric bill and such. We contacted one of the churches mentioned and sent most of the money that we had set aside to help with that effort. I grant you that this is not an 'appropriate' use of money if you allow what the Adventist church teaches regarding tithe to guide you, but we find that there is much more need in cases like this than there ever is money to meet the need. ISO | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6269 Registered: 12-2003 |
When Paul talks about giving specifically, as in 2 Corinthians, Philippians, etc., he talks about giving to the poor, to those sister churches that were impoverished or famine-stricken, and to those who taught the gospel. Truly, God can impress you where to give your money—and remember, the most important part of giving is that you give cheerfully, not under compulsion. The willingness to give and the heart that desires to honor God is more important than the specific decision of where to give. Read 2 Corinthians 8 and 9 for a great discussion of why to give, how to give, and the results of giving. Ultimately, the whole issue of generosity is that God gets the glory! He provides for both the giver and those who receive. In Him, all of us depend on Him for our existence, and He uses us to glorify Him in the process. Colleen | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 134 Registered: 5-2007 |
Cloudy nailed it. Who wrote: I understand your point about wanting it all "spelled out so I don't have to think about it. " Some people are more comfortable with the quantifiable concrete (e.g. engineers) They can be uncomfortable with the subjective "give from the heart". And this is not because their hearts are stingy or unwilling, it is because they are concrete thinkers. I have to do something. To answer another question> No, I do not have a chruch right now. Still debating that one too. Looking and visiting. It gets weary. Just not finding a church home so far. You can sense home. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 26 Registered: 7-2007 |
As I was studying my way out of Adventism - actually that sounds easier than it really was, because every so often it would be as if a fuzzy dark cloud of confusion would surround my head and I would wonder if what I was learning was really true or not. Then I and the person who, with God's help, led me out of Adventism; would pray and the "cloud" would lift and I would understand clearly again. It was weird and definitely supernatural. Anyway, as I was just learning all this, I was building up all my tithe in a certain Bible I called my "tithe Bible." Just to get rid of it, I was thinking of giving it to the Adventist church, and made a comment about it to my friend. She said, "don't you dare give that money to that evil church!" I had studied enough so that I felt convicted that I probably shouldn't, so I didn't. I ended up sending my tithe and offering to Dave Wilkerson's ministry. Now, I'm holding off again until I read through the New Testament once again to make sure whether the tithe is even required or not. I don't think it is. I think just free-will offerings are required; but I'm reading through the new testament again to make sure, just in case. Having had a legalistic background for over 50 years; it's hard not to still have a bit of that tendency. The Lord has freed me from most of the baggage of Adventism though and I notice that He's a lot closer and clearer than when I was an Adventist!  | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6285 Registered: 12-2003 |
It's amazing, isn't it, Dianne? Jesus is REAL! Colleen | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 52 Registered: 4-2004 |
Hi Jim, I just wanted to say I am glad you are posting here. It helps me to read all of your questions and know someone else is struggling with some of the same issues that I am. I found an article that helped me that I wanted to share. http://www.spiritualabuse.org/articles/poplar.html I like the part of the article where it talks about how God will place each of his children in his body when it pleases him. I am still working on the anger and bitterness part towards the Adventist church. I have prayed for God to help me forgive, but it still hurts to know you followed a false prophet for so many years. Praying God's blessings for you. | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 145 Registered: 5-2007 |
Busymom, Thank You for the link. I want to read it, so I am saving the link for hopefully Monday. I use a PC at the library. My wife wants a PC for home use one day soon. I usually access online at work when things are caught up and the phones are not ringing. We have a certain level of unofficial liberty as long as it does not affect our work. Even so, my legalism bugs me about it. But , honestly, these past few months, having the FAF has been a mercy to me. So I try to balance my need to access with doing a good job for my employer. So far no complaints I ask a lot of questions and it is obvious, many before me have asked the same ones. I would love to see all the "best of" articles in the Proclamation magazine bound into a large edition volume for purchase. That would be a major resource for me, especially when not able to be online. Thank You for making me feel welcome. Jim |
