| Author | Message | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 141 Registered: 10-2005 |
Can anyone confirm this,I have heard that she was half african american/caucasion but have never seen documentation on this. | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 228 Registered: 5-2007 |
She was a dark-complected Caucasian. She, in fact appeared to be a racist in some of her writings like the embarrassing statements about amalgamation, race realtions, etc. Her having African American blood in her is only a myth, she was a Caucasian with a dark complexion. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1130 Registered: 4-2000  |
Wolfgang, In recent years, the White Estate has hired a renowned, registered genealogist to debunk this claim. It does appear, at least to me, that the White Estate is correct on this particular matter. There are more than enough other negative factors about Ellen White to consign her to the blasphemous list of FALSE PROPHETS without considering this latest allegation about her ethnicity. If true, however, this would make Ellen White's anti-Black statements even more controversial and obnoxious. Therefore, with this factor clearly at stake, the White Estate spared no dollars in trying to resolve this matter as quickly as possible. With the majority of Adventists now being people of color, the White Estate frantically sought to resolve their dilemma. Thus, if Ellen White was really a true prophet, the White Estate would not even worry about her ethnicity at all. This racial speculation would not reflect adversely on their Ellenolatry. Even speculation about non-issues makes the White Estate very nervous about their beloved messenger and prophetess. Indeed, false prophets are always very vulnerable to information technology. Ellenology is usually the last tidbit of information that Adventist apologists reveal to their new converts--sometimes even moments before baptism. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 69 Registered: 5-2007  |
I do family history and just last night I was looking up my grandparets. In the 1910 Federal census, I found my grandmother plus two of her sisters and my grandfather along with one of his brothers all at the St Helena Sanitarium. Then I noticed that Ellen G. White was also listed, along with two others in her household. (The two others were Sara McEnterfer, her attendant and Helen Graham, her stenographer.) She is listed as an author and her race is English. In response to the question posed in this thread, I went online and looked up her ancestry. Basicly, it is all English as far back as you would want to search. To me, questioning her ancestry is a silly topic that proves nothing. Phil | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 48 Registered: 4-2007 |
Dennis, you said: "Ellenology is usually the last tidbit of information that Adventist apologists reveal to their new converts--sometimes even moments before baptism." Or, AFTER baptism. Even though I was underage, I'd like to think they would have had to drag me kicking and screaming to the tank if they had been upfront with me on that one. I had heard her name, but only in the context of other Adventist founders - not the whole 'spirit of prophecy' teaching until it was (I felt) too late. MarysRoses | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 49 Registered: 4-2007 |
The baptism I mentioned before was actually a re-baptism. I was deeply suspicious anyway that rebaptism was wrong. I had been baptized in my grandmother's baptist church as a child when I was six. That was real. I understood what I was doing as I had accepted Jesus at a revival meeting and I really WANTED to be baptized. The SDA baptism was 30 years ago almost and I still feel betrayed by the SDA. I was really trying to follow Jesus and do what was right, but the bible study was so rushed and there was so much pressure to make a decision and 'get baptized' it was difficult to back away and think it all through. As an aside, after leaving adventism and I became Roman Catholic, I was not rebaptized. The baptism when I was six was accepted. I simply made a profession of faith and received communion for the first time. One baptism is enough for me, to be rebaptized, I realize now, bothered me because it was saying what happened when I was six had no meaning. MarysRoses | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1131 Registered: 4-2000 |
MarysRoses, Good point about Ellen White being mentioned sometimes AFTER baptism as well. I know of a case where a woman was baptized in a public meeting setting, and she never showed up in the local SDA Church. As a lifelong Lutheran, she simply wanted to be baptized like Jesus was. She didn't understand the SDA pattern of simultaneously joining a particular church with the rite of baptism. Apparently, the evangelistic team was too intensely engaged in the numbers game to make things plain to her. On the other hand, she would have probably refused baptism if she had known it involved joining the SDA Church. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6173 Registered: 12-2003  |
Interesting, MaryRoses. Yes, the truth about Ellen is usually withheld from converts. Also interestingly, several years ago Richard found a Catholic website (he can't remember now what it was) that overtly stated that they recognize Adventist baptsim and allow Adventists to practice communion because they agree with the Adventist position of baptism INTO a church body. The website (which was not about Catholicism but was maintained by Catholics) also stated that they do not recognize regular evangelical baptism because evangelicals are generally baptized individually into Christ and not into a church body. This independent "salvation" they see as not valid. Colleen | ||
| Mrsbrian3 Registered user Username: Mrsbrian3 Post Number: 80 Registered: 8-2005 |
I read somewhere recently on some forum (don't know if it's true) that EGW was baptised twice --- once into Christ --- and then a second time into the third angel's message. Go figure! Kim | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 51 Registered: 4-2007 |
Hi Colleen .. It would be interesting to see that website because I can't really figure it out. There's two possibilities: 1. That it is someone's opinion and they don't quite have their information sorted out, or 2. its a "catholic" group not in communion with Rome. I have taught as a certified catechist for the Catholic church for many years and the guidelines about accepting non-catholic baptisms have to do with form and intention. They must be water baptisms, by immersion or pouring, and they must use the Trinitarian formula, and have the intention of Christian baptism. Evangelical baptisms as long as they are trinitarian certainly are accepted. The baptisms of non-trinitarian groups such as Mormons are not accepted. Adventist baptisms are usually considered acceptable, due to the trinitarian formula. It may be the missunderstanding about evangelical baptism is becuase there are some small groups, such as oneness Pentecostals, that baptize in the 'name of Jesus', not the trinity. Those would not be acceptable. Its also possible that the misunderstanding is due to some non-catholic groups admitting people to membership without baptism. In that instance, membership in a Christian church would not be sufficient and that person would need to be baptized if they wanted to be Catholic. Another interesting thing is that the website said Adventists were allowed communion. Adventists do not believe what Catholics believe about Holy Communion, so intercommunion would be impossible based on that alone. Non-Catholics being admitted to receive communion in the Catholic Church can rarely happen based on individual pastoral decisions, but the non-catholic individual must profess to believe what the Catholic Church believes (*NOT* going to happen with Adventists, LOL) and have had a valid baptism. This is rare and there usually is some obstacle, such as being in a situation of war or persecution that would prevent the person from first becoming Catholic in the usual way. Eastern Orthodox are allowed to receive communion, but their own patriarchs usually forbid it. The Catholic Church recognizes only one baptism. All validly baptized Christians are baptized into the ONE Body of Christ. (One Faith, One Lord, One Baptism). That is why converts are not re-baptized if they had a valid baptism. All baptised Christians whatever the denomination are considered by their baptisms to be part of the Church, which is the Body of Christ. We believe that God knows his own and that the invisible Church is larger than the visible one. MarysRoses | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 52 Registered: 4-2007 |
I'd just like to add a comment, I wrote the above to clarify what I saw as the misunderstanding or misstatement of Catholic teaching by that website mentioned by Colleen. It is not meant in any way to be taken as a comment on any person's salvation or the validity of their personal beliefs. When I said that membership without baptism (such as by profession of faith) was not valid, I meant ONLY that it was not acceptable in place of baptism for a person wanting to be admitted to membership and full communion in the Catholic Church. All such statements about validity are meant here only in the context of someone seeking to become a Catholic. God Bless, MarysRoses (Message edited by MarysRoses on July 02, 2007) | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 233 Registered: 5-2007 |
One thing I will say, MarysRoses is that the Roman Catholic Church gets a lot more things right than the Adventists do, and going from SDA to RCC is a MAJOR improvement IMHO. My son may be going to Catholic school next year, if he passes the exam. He was so unahappy with Adventist school my wife decided to put him in Catholic school next year(which I heartily applaud). I'm sure he'll get more Bible in Catholic school religion class than he ever did in SDA. My wife commented on how much more "mercy" the Catholic school appears to have compared to the Adventist school which was very harsh. Hmmmmm, interesting. Maybe my wife will eventually leave SDA for the RCC? She worked at a Catholic hospital when she was still in Indonesia years ago and she has always talked favourably of the Catholics, while bashing Lutherans and Baptists.(she still isn't really happy that I am attending a Baptist church now but at least she's accepting it). | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1897 Registered: 10-2004  |
Marysroses, You wrote: "The baptisms of non-trinitarian groups such as Mormons are not accepted. Adventist baptisms are usually considered acceptable, due to the trinitarian formula." Hmmm, that's interesting because the Mormons baptize "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"--it seems like that would be considered a "trinitarian formula"? I'm guessing it's because they know that the Mormons teach a false trinity, that they don't accept those baptisms? Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on July 02, 2007) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6182 Registered: 12-2003 |
MarysRoses--that's very interesting. As I said, Richard can't remember what the website was, and he has tried to relocate it but hasn't been able to. It was very detailed, but I don't know if it was run by a Rome-connected owner. Thanks for clarifying the details. I really appreciate your wealth of knowledge in some of these theological areas... Colleen | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 53 Registered: 4-2007 |
Jeremy -- I'm giving the general guidelines. All final decisions as to whether or not to accept a baptism would be up to the pastor of the person wanting membership who would have the details of the individual case. Mormon baptisms may have more of a defect in intent rather than form, just my guess, since they are so very out of the Christian mainstream. I know former Mormons asking for membership in my parish have always been baptized at the Easter vigil along with the unbaptized catechumens. This is never done if there is a prior baptism that could be considered valid. As far as Adventists, I have actually discussed whether or not Adventist baptisms are always trinitarian with a couple of priests who are friends of mine. They were not aware that there are so many problems with Adventist statements of belief in the trinity, and that there are historical Adventists who are not trinitarian even in name only. As many on this forum have mentioned, Adventists often get too much 'credit' for adhering to the basics of Christianity by those who only know them by their public statements. MarysRoses | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 123 Registered: 8-2005 |
Colleen, I ran across that same website on my way out of Adventism. Yes, they state that the Catholic church recognizes the baptism of the Seventh-day Adventist church because the baptize into a church, not into Christ (as other evangelical faiths do). I will try to find it. ISO | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6186 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thank you, ISO! Colleen | ||
| Nicole Registered user Username: Nicole Post Number: 68 Registered: 4-2006 |
i think the catholic church doesn't realize the truth about what sda really believe . they (sda)certainly give you the impression that they believe in the trinity, it is through much research that you realize that is not the case. the priest who married my husband and i had a discussion with my husband, and i think he truly believes that he was taught the same as other christians. he is even confused. i think the mormon belief is not hidden from the public like the sda religion. mormons believe what they believe and that is that. sda are in the practice of trying to look mainstream for some reason, all the while believing something totally different behind the scenes. so i think the catholic church (like most other denominations) are ignorant as to what sda believe because they are so good at deceiving the public. | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 125 Registered: 8-2005 |
If you browse a few Catholic websites I think you will realize that they do realize (at least as far as it relates to Catholic beliefs, anyway) what the SDA church teaches. Where they do find unity with the SDA church is the validity of baptism - that the church baptizes in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Mormons use the same words, but the teaching is clearly not what is understood within Christianity as Trinitarian. While there is obviously some debate here that the SDA church does not believe in the Triune God the way that most Christians understand it, I believe that the rank-and-file member of the SDA church does believe in the Trinity as understood by most Christians. Mormons are as deceptive as they need to be based on who they are talking to (very much like Adventists). If you caught Mitt Romney answer a question regarding his belief a few weeks ago, he stated that he believes that Jesus died for his sins just like any other Christian would believe. It all sounded good, but at the end of the day, he said only enough to make it appear that his belief system was the same as everyone elses (at least where it counts). ISO |
