| Author | Message | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 127 Registered: 5-2007 |
The FAF has served a valuble purpose for me. I want to thank everyone. I have decided to go silent for awhile. I think a large part of teh problem for me on this web site is I am looking for order and clarity on a random forum. That is obviously not the place for order. Also, I am prone to venting my own frustrations. I want things to make sense, but also I want things scriptual , doctrinal to be dependable. I fail to find that. Mostly , a 1000 piece puzzle. So, I figure I need to shut up. I am being a poor witness. My best to all. When I discover answers , I will let you know. | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 218 Registered: 5-2007 |
Jim, I will pray for you. May God bless you in your search for the truth. | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 145 Registered: 10-2006 |
JimO2, You said "I want things to make sense, but also I want things scriptual , doctrinal to be dependable. I fail to find that. Mostly , a 1000 piece puzzle" Doctrine is never 100% sanitary nor is it dependable. Why do we need dependable doctrine anyway? The essentials outlined by Paul et al are enough, the Apostolic Creed, the gospel message. Answers do not always help, that's why we have been given the Holy Spirit. Adventism requires all the answers, and where does that leave Christ? It's always alright and healthy to ask questions, but if the answer is fuzzy when searching scripture, well then, it will just have to remain fuzzy. Jesus' stories did not always give absolute doctrine. He had a reason for pointing that out. He said "I AM, everything else isn't." You are not a poor witness anymore than the rest of us are. What you are is honest. And that always caused discomfort and pain. God bless you buddy...don't leave this forum until you are given a better one. steve | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 580 Registered: 3-2001 |
Jim, I am sorry for your confusion. It seems like you are trying to undertand too much too fast. You see in Adventism, we learned to depend on our own logic (or at least the logic of the church). As someone else stated, it was all about the "rightness of our position and/or doctrine." Well God has to bring us to the end of ourselves, before he can begin the real work of trasnsformation in our lives. Most people here have at one time or another gave the testimony that when they came out of Adventism, they got a strong sense of how little they knew compared to what they thought they knew in Adventism. I know it is very true for me. However, the other common testimony is that we all have come to the point of realizing that "its okay." If I understand and accept His complete and total sacrifice on my behalf, He will teach me the rest of what I need to know in His time. I encourage you to stop trying to "figure it out" and just rest in His completed work. Most of all, don't allow yourself to get wrapped around the axle by the doctrines of men. You are in a personal relationship with Christ. He will teach you what you need to know through the guidance of His Holy Spirit. There is tremendous freedom (and pwer) in this simple truth. God Bless | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 631 Registered: 6-2006  |
Jim, I love reading your posts. I can understand your frustration, but many of the questions you post may be some that I might have had or someone else out there has. Please don't quit altogether! You are a very special person who seeks God's face. I'm inspired by you. I hope you'll remember that from me.  Leigh Anne | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3894 Registered: 3-2004  |
Jim, When I left adventism, I gave up the "right" to have all the answers. There are still many things I do not understand. The important ones I do, that Jesus came to this earth as a baby, lived, healed and preached, died a horrendous death for me and all humans and was resurrected. He now sits at the right hand of God. We do not have all the answers but we can be supportive and listen(read). I wll be praying for you and your family. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6165 Registered: 12-2003  |
Jim, I agree with every post above. It is a matter of fact that it takes us from two to five years to process out of Adventism. It is a slow growth, and it cannot be rushed. If we try to rush it, we'll end up either in confusion or with skewed beliefs. As Doug and Steve suggested above, what God brings us to as we leave is the submission of cognitive logic and understanding to the more "ephemeral" reality of knowing Jesus. Rest in Jesus. Praise Him for what He is doing in your life. Ask Him to teach you to trust Him. Ask Him to be more real to you than the confusion. Ask Him to be all you need. Doctrines and understanding will come...but they will NOT come in advance of trust and resting in Jesus. What God asks of us is submission and trust, not right doctrine. If we try to formulate our doctrine in order to understand what God wants of us, we are working backwards. We WILL get it wrong! If, on the other hand, we ask God to replace our fear with His Spirit, to replace our feeling of abandonment with His constant presence, if we ask Him to bring His words to our mind when we feel frightened or guilty...those are the things that will bring us growth and healing. Our doctrines quite literally develop as we stay immersed in the Bible and submitted to Jesus. We really don't have to struggle with "knowing" as much as we have to be willing to submit. God will teach you Biblical doctrines—I absolutely guarantee that! But He will do it one step at a time, and He will not clarify doctrine to you in advance of your trust and His revelation of His own grace and love to you. I also love reading your posts. You express what every one of us has experienced, and you also verbalize what a great many people who lurk also experience or fear. You are not unusual—you are completely normal! The Lord Jesus is asking you to surrender your need to "know" and instead seek to know Him. When you feel unsure or confused, ask Him to teach you truth. He won't do it all at once, but as you are content to leave questions unanswered, knowing He will be all you need, you'll discover that gradually these confusions are replaced with insight. The Lord Jesus is Himself the answer to our questionings, as the old hyms said. Jim, pray Ephesians 3:14-19 for yourself every day. And end with the praise of Ephe 3:20-21. Praise Jesus for Himself--the "knowing" will come in due time. He is all you need! Colleen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 220 Registered: 5-2007 |
Colleen, you are SO right. It is NOT easy processing out of Adventism | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 961 Registered: 9-2006  |
Dianna said "I gave up the "right" to have all the answers." Me too Dianna. If I have to have all the answers, it literally takes away my rest in him. You are so right Dianna, my mind presents questions all the time but I have to lean on him and not my own understanding every day of the week. This forum may seem random but you have to see the underlying currents of reason. There is much to be learned from the people on this forum, one thing most have traveled the same path. Hang in there Jim. Praying for you. River River (Message edited by river on June 29, 2007) | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 147 Registered: 10-2006 |
One more thing Jim, It is very likely that your moments of "consternation" (my word)are indeed living proof that the Holy Spirit is speaking to you. Take encouragement in that, pray thanks to God for His tender PERSONAL attention to you. Focus on His goodness, His mercy, His forgiveness and acceptance of you right now and always. There is nothing about you that He doesn't already know, so confide in Him all of your thoughts and questions. Then, ask Him to enable you to hear what He wants you to hear. There's an answer you can count on. I am living proof that even though there is so much wrong in me, I always turn out right in Him. I am praying for you Jim, it's my responsibility as your Christian brother to support you this way. Thank Him that, because of Him, many you don't even know are praying for you. Now there's an answer you can sink your teeth into! steve | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3896 Registered: 3-2004 |
Jim, continueing to pray for you and your wife. Diana | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 303 Registered: 11-2005 |
Jim, what everyone else has said is absolutely right. In Adventism everything is so "black and white". It is a sin to eat cheese. It is a sin to wear any jewelry. It is very important to "guard" the edges of the Sabbath. Like all the rules given the Children of Israel, there is a rule for everything. And if Ellen White said it that ends any future intelligent dialog on the subject -- if one is trying to follow Adventist dogma from the "continuing and authoritative source of truth". When I left Adventism I felt like a young calf turned loose on the "open range". We live here in the west where cattle can easily roam for 100 miles with no fences. It is an entirely different lifestyle from a cow in a feedlot. God is SO good! He knew I needed when I left Adventism I would need a total re-education. He also knew that it would not be good for me to miss out on Christian fellowship. The first group I met with was a local Evangelical Free Fellowship where they taught me about "majoring in the majors, and minoring in the minors." In other words we have to agree on core doctrine, but what the Bible doesn't define as core doctrine it is all right for us to disagree on. Stevendi stated it so well, "don't leave this forum until you are given a better one." We all love you. You are always welcome here. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 582 Registered: 3-2001 |
Gilbert, I like your analogy of the young calf on the open range:
That was me too. Because I had always been taught that the Spirit was synonymous with the law, when I realized I wasn't under the law I drifted into liberalism. But by the continued grace of God, I have now seen that the law was actually replaced by the Spirit. To be honest, I didn't even know who the Spirit was. I would only add one caveat to what you and Steve said. Jim, you should use this forum as your community and as the rest of the body (remember, you are only one member), but do not allow us or any other human being to take the place of the Spirit. Any one of may fail, but He is able to do immeasurably more than you can ask or imagine, according to His power that is at work within you. Praise God. Doug | ||
| Godssonjp Registered user Username: Godssonjp Post Number: 37 Registered: 1-2007 |
Jim, I also agree with everything everyone else here said. As I am continuing processing out of Adventism, I know for certain that there are still residual effects of SDA beliefs ingrained in my mind. I first began by wanting to know everything wrong with SDA. At the same time, I wanted to know the truth. This caused major confusion because I wanted to know everthing, NOW. Everything right, everything wrong. I wanted answers and wanted them to make sense. And for a while, nothing made sense. Everything conflicted with everything. My mind was spinning everyday. It wasn't unitl I asked God to only show me what I needed to know when things started to "slow down" for me. I realized that I didn't need to know everything. As I waited on God to reveal truth to me, things started to 'flow' one at a time. Jim, When I found this site it felt like everyone here knew more than I did. Seemed like everyone had way more knowlege on just about every subject. Everyone's "new" understanding of the gospel and NT was way beyond my understanding. I wanted to know what everyone here seemed to know. But, as I read through the posts and old posts I gained better understanding just from others experiences. Some of which I have gone through myself. No doubt, many of us have gone through. It takes time. God's time. He will reveal to you what you need to know when you need to know it. I don't, at this time, have a full understanding about alot of stuff. But, that's ok because what I know now is better than what I thought I knew before I came here. I'm done trying to figure out what God wants me to know. Instead, I just wait for Him to show me. If he shows me something "new" then I know I'm ready to recieve it. If not, I don't stress it. I'll just wait on Him. In Love... | ||
| Cw Registered user Username: Cw Post Number: 137 Registered: 4-2006  |
Jim, never having been an Adventist I can't say I understand the confusion. I thank God that most of my doctrinal problems have been minor compared to what I hear of folks trying to clear themselves from SDA. But the fact that you came to this forum in the first place shows how God leads us to His will. Hope you'll still lurk even if you lay off posting for awhile. Much of what I have gained here has not been in direct response to my questions. By the way folks. Those of you who remember my story (my daughter D going with SDA J)---I now hear through the grapevine that J is starting to question some things. I put out-also through the grapevine-that he should start lurking here. I hope he does and maybe someday he'll even be led to actually join in. I know he will get honest, informed and loving answers here. You all were certainly a help in my family's time of need. Keep lurking Jim. CW |
