| Author | Message | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 49 Registered: 4-2004 |
We have still been going to the new interdenominational church. This morning when walking the dog my son asked him if I would take him back to visit the charismatic church where we attended after leaving the SDA church. He wants to go back to see a couple of boys that go there. I question whether the prophet who was brought in to prophesy was a true prophet. His website is here http://www.alanross.org.uk/ When I heard him prophesy the pastor called certain members of the congregation up and alan said certain things would happen in there lives. Examples are one couple he said was called to a ministry of calling people when they stopped attending. Another person had the gift of healing. Another person who was operating a christian book store was told that God was taking care of the business in his life and was told God was going to bless him. The first couple never developed a heart for people who stopped attending. The second person's son was hospitalized for days with a virus and the third person's store went out of business. Am I being to cynical in thinking because I heard all of these things that didn't come true, that Alan is probably not a true prophet. Anyways, I think my eight year old is probably old enough to start learning about false teaching, but I just wanted some feedback on whether I was being too cynical before I had the conversation with him. Thanks! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3887 Registered: 3-2004  |
It has been my experience that we should be honest with our children about religious/spiritual values and things we learn. Before saying any of the stuff about the prophet, I would tell him what the Bible says about false prophets, then tell him about the person. Just my opinion. Diana | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 212 Registered: 5-2007 |
No prophets since John the Revelator. We have Christ and the Holy Spirit, who needs a prophet. Since leaving Adventism I am convinced that John the Revlelator was the LAST prophet, the Bible is complete and we have the Holy Spirit to help us understand it and that's all we need. | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 125 Registered: 5-2007 |
This is a good question ! Are prophets still available in the NT? Anyone ? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 957 Registered: 9-2006  |
The gifts of the Holy Spirit and that includes prophets Reb are for the edification and comfort of the body of Christ, that be you if your saved. Reb, what do you do with this text? Corinthians I 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Ignore it? explain it away? Just wondering. I tell you what I would do with the situation Busymom mentioned, I would run like a rabbit to avoid it. People rush to these people to tell them whats going to happen to their own detriment most of the time, they begin to look to people instead of God. Seek the giver and he will take care of the gifts. Run Busymom run. IMHO. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 958 Registered: 9-2006 |
The gifts of the Spirit are not "Brought in" every Christian has the potential to be used of god as he sees fit. River | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 217 Registered: 5-2007 |
Good points. River. My experiences in Adeventism have me really "goosey" about prophets at this time. Part of what I am going through is still my processing out of Adventism. If I am wrong about John the Revelator being the last prophet then I am wrong. I'm just kind of "skittish" about "prophets" and "prophecy" right now. EGW will do that to you. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 959 Registered: 9-2006 |
Well don't feel like the lone ranger there Reb, I am pretty "goosey" about what stuff such as Busymom mentioned and there is a heck of a lot of it going on, but the Lord and his word is my stabilizing force, my feeling on it Reb is not to go running where the angels fear to tread, its like crawling under concertina wire, best do it gently and keep the old wires cutters handy. River | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 219 Registered: 5-2007 |
Good, points, River. I'll just stick with the Bible! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6168 Registered: 12-2003  |
I'm with River...Run, Busymom, Run! I heard a Charismatic preacher say, recently, something that I thought was very interesting and true—and it surprised me coming from him (though it probably shouldn't have...). He said this, God will never tell you something through another person that He isn't already convincting you of directly. In other words, when God gives others prophetic words for us, those "words" will never be new ideas that God isn't already trying to teach us. I really liked that "rule of thumb", because I know that some people say NT prophets bring messages from God that we need to hear...the implication being that without those prophets, that message would be missing in the church. I liked his focus that said God deals with us directly through His Spirit, and sometimes He emphasizes His point to us, especially if we're resisting or rationalizing, by having some other person say to us what we already know in our hearts is God's will for us. Yes, prophecy is one of the spiritual gifts to the church, and as River said, it is for the building up and unity of the body. It's not for the purpose of someon having a pipeline to God that's different from everyone else's. It's what God does when He speaks His truth as revealed in His word through the mouth of another person for the purpose of encouraging and spiritually strengthening us. I have a vivid memory of an incident which happened several years ago that illustrates to me God's gift of prophecy for my edification. I was the managing editor of Adventist Today. Richard and I had decided that we were leaving the SDA church, but Adventist Today was our last "cling-on". It was our bread-and-butter account in our business, and for the past three or four months I had been covering the debacle of Robert Folkenberg's lawsuit which resulted in his being fired from the position of General Conference president. I was deeply aware that God had orchestrated events in order for the magazine to cover this story, and He had given me some amazing contacts who helped me ask questions and fill in details that brought a lot of "stuff" to light. Richard and I decided that we would resign from AT when the story of Folkenberg ended. I knew I couldn't stop covering it until it was over. By March or April, the story was winding down, and Folkenberg had been moved to a less visible position (but not fired from denominational employment). I realized I had to think seriously about resigning. I vividly remember the morning I prayed that if it was actually time to quit, that God would confirm it through a dear friend of mine who has known me well since the mid-80s and has great spiritual insight and discernment herself. (She also was leaving the SDA church.) And by the way, I had seldom ever and still rarely if ever pray prayers like that. I generally ask God to teach me truth, but I was conflicted enough about that decision to pray for confirmation from someone slightly at a distance but who knew me well. I promptly forgot about that prayer and went through a very busy day. About 4:00 that afternoon my dear friend called me. Not remembering my earlier prayer at all, I chatted with her about light "stuff", and suddenly, totally off-topic and out of the blue, she said to me, "Well, Colleen, it's time for you to talk to the publisher and resign from Adventist Today." At that moment I remembered my prayer, and I was overwhelmed and told her what I had prayed that morning. Then she was overwhelmed. Well, we did it. Richard and I met with the publisher, and we resigned. That was our last break that held us to Adventism besides writing the official letter asking our church to remove our names from membership. God clearly gave my friend those words. We had not been talking about anything close to that subject. And it was not NEW knowledge...God had been nudging me to resign. I just wasn't sure exactly when the right time would be. But God made His will clear. Yes, the NT gift of prophecy is real...but it's not for new doctrines or information about God. It's for the building up of the body, for emphasizing God's will, for revealing the meanings of Scripture, etc. But it's not for new information about God or for random prophecies about what we should be doing. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 962 Registered: 9-2006 |
Absolutely right in all that you said Colleen. And What you said about "God will never tell you something through another person that He isn't already convincing you of directly. In other words, when God gives others prophetic words for us, those "words" will never be new ideas that God isn't already trying to teach us." Far as i'm concerned that preacher was right and if someone comes to me with "A word from the Lord" I am liable to tell them to "put a lid on it." Or I may be polite and say "izzat so?" probably depending on if they have cornered me or not. If anyone has set up as a Prophet or anyone sets him/her up I steer clear. God is able to use any of us at any given time in any of the gifts of the Spirit for the edification, up building and comfort of the body. Corinthians I 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. Corinthians I 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. Corinthians I 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. What that scriptures says to me is that one ain't over the other. IMHO as always in IMHO. River | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 50 Registered: 4-2004 |
Thank you for all your replies. I am running, I will need to pray about how to talk to my son. We see this pastor regularly at our lake. I am praying that the church we have started attending will start to feel like home, or we will be directed to one that will feel like home. My younger son is still complaining about how big the new church is. I know it is a matter of patience. Did anyone else find it took a long time for the new church to feel like home? This may be weird to say, but if I walked back into my local Adventist church I and my children would immediately receive hugs and be welcomed. It would be enjoyable until I listened to the doctrine! | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1134 Registered: 4-2000  |
Busymom, Belief transitions, at best, are not without trauma. The size of a congregation is an important factor for many people. Personally, very small churches annoy me much more than very big churches do. I used to preach in many small SDA churches in the Southern and Mid-America Unions. Oh yes, sometimes I even played the piano for them and sang at the same time. When my wife was with me, she played the piano very proficiently. Occasionally, Sylvia and I sang duets for special music. Also, Sylvia used to have me tell her the children's story before I presented it in church prior to my sermon. She was a friendly, helpful critic. I loved telling stories to children. I still consider myself as an "emergency pianist." I think my wife would agree with that description (smile). Anyway, my wife also felt that very small churches tended to be very depressing. Admittedly, very large churches create a different set of circumstances that can be less than homelike as well. Given a direct choice, however, I would go for the larger church anyday. In a larger church setting, it is ideal to become involved in a small group and/or Sunday School class. This is a great way to get acquainted with some wonderful people. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6177 Registered: 12-2003 |
Good insights, Dennis. Busymom, yes--many people do not feel "at home" in a church for quite a while. Keep asking God to reveal His will to you. I can't explain it, but He definitely lets us know His will. And we have the objective Biblical basis of truth to guide us as we learn to recognize His voice. He never leads us contrary to His truth in the Bible--even in the stuff of daily life. With prayers for you, Colleen | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 244 Registered: 1-2004  |
An example of how prophecy worked in the early church can be seen in Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna. Here's what Polycarp said of himself, from his epistle to the Philippians;
Here's what the church at Smyrna said about Polycarp, after his martyrdom;
Polycarp was humble and never would have made claims for himself, but to those around him it was obvious that God gave him gifts. Jeremiah | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 219 Registered: 1-2006  |
The Israelites were asking how they could identify a false prophet, so the Lord told them in Deut 18--"How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." I see this as the real test of a false prophet. Bob | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6183 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, Bob, I agree. Anyone who claims the Lord's name and prophecies falsely is not speaking for God. We can absolutely know that. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3909 Registered: 3-2004 |
That is one of the big reasons I cannot believe EGW, along with her plagiarism and having others do her writing. Diana | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 126 Registered: 8-2005 |
Busymom, I understand what you mean about finding a church that 'feels like home'. The PCA church that my wife and I attend is very large. I find the actual church service to be cold (relative to the congregation) with no expressions of joy or agreement (no Amen! during the sermon or after a moving choir or solo number). BUT - the preaching is Christ-centered and edifying (unlike the SDA churches I have attended over the years these pastors preach expositorily not topically) and I find that I really enjoy and am moved by reciting the Apostle's Creed, etc. The real blessing in this PCA church is the small study goup that we meet with. While all other groups are lecture focused, this group is focused on Bible study. It took them 3 years to get through the book of Acts. We started Romsans in March and are just preparing to close the first chapter). While the actual 'church' does not necessarily feel like home, this group does. I am still humbled by their response to our family when my wife was dealing with her illness and near death situations. They truely displayed the spirit of Jesus to us all. On top of all that, my 17 year old son gets up at 6:00 AM every Sunday to go without any prompting or begging from us. Something good is happening here... Like most others here, I would run from 'prophetic utterences' such as you describe. If the 'prophecies' were true, they would have confirmed your faith. The very fact that they did not turn out as 'prophesied' is all the proof you need that they are false and not of God. ISO | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 51 Registered: 4-2004 |
ISO, that is amazing that your 17 year old is up so early for church. I keep hoping that my kids and I will both find a church we are happy with. The churches I have been really drawn to did not seem to have very good kids programs. Thank you everyone for your responses. I did join a small group after praying. The group is a women's group on the biblical meaning of joy. Last week we went over joy busters. Time will tell whether I fit in this group or not. I really identify with the verse I read Psalm 13:1,2 Part of it is "How long will you hide your face from me? How long must I wrestle with my thoughts and every day have sorrow in my heart?" I am ready to stop hurting and being so emotional when I talk to others about church. I just finished reading "Safe People" by Henry Cloud and Dr. Townsend. They talk about healing after hurts and say "we cannot lose and grieve what we need to grieve what we need to grieve without something new to attach to." So anyways I will keep having faith that I can fit into a new church. They also have a list in the book about finding a safe church which is good. |
