| Author | Message | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 186 Registered: 5-2007 |
As I am processing out of the SDA church into the SDB, it's amazing that Adventists would now think that I am "lost" even though I haven't renounced Christ and being that I am now SDB I haven't even renounced the Sabbath. So it's not just the Sabbath for them then? IF it were only the Sabbath then they wouldn't have a problem at all with what I have done as I am still honouring all 10 commandments. Does this stem from the hateful things EGW wrote about all other Churches? But interestingly enough, there are some Adventists on CARM who have actually been tolerant of my switch to the SDB church and have said they are happy I have found assurance of my salvation so it's not all intolerance from all SDAs. But if one would like let's say switch from the Methodist to Lutheran Church there would be no static as long as one still believes in Christ Jesus. But one can leave Adventism and still believe in Christ Jesus and still even worship on the Sabbath like I have done and still be considered "lost"? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6129 Registered: 12-2003  |
Well, Reb, it depends upon the Adventist you talk to. Bottom line, most will worry about your salvation because you have rejected the end-time prophetess (or messenger), you have rejected their unique understanding of the great controversy/IJ, and most importantly, you've rejected God's true remnant church. More progressive Adventists will have trouble saying you're lost since you are embracing the Sabbath, but there is still a discomfort under the surface. Adventists have sympathy for other Sabbatarians, but they do consider leaving Adventism for another church, even Sabbatarian, a disturbing move and a step away from true obedience to God. If a person were moving from a Sunday church to SDB, they would feel hopeful and would likely consider that person to be moving toward truth and a likely target for conversion to Adventism. Adventists do believe that once a person has understood "the truth" and then leaves it, he walks out of salvation. Adventist "truth" is publicly characterized by the Sabbath, but internally it involves more than the Sabbath. It includes acceptance of Ellen White at some level; it involves some understanding and acceptance of the IJ; it involves the food rules; it involves keeping the Sabbath as a public statement of loyalty to God. So, although worshiping on Sabbath at an SDB church deflates their main arguments, moving away from Adventism is still leaving God's end-time true church. It is seen as move away from the truth. Colleen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 187 Registered: 5-2007 |
Sounds about right to me, Colleen. Thanks. I seriously doubt that a SDB would convert to the SDA church. At the SDB church I attend, many of the people there, including the Pastor are ex- Adventists. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 931 Registered: 9-2006  |
No,No, Listen Reb, you got to go fer their slop hook line and sucker to be with the in crowd, don't you know that mon? Now you go down there with wind a tendin some other doin's your gonna have them coughin up fur ball's. Now wonder you got the screen name a Reb, you rebel rouser.  River | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 188 Registered: 5-2007 |
Good one, River! I got my screen name Reb from my wife calling me a "rebel" when my journey out of Adventism started. Gotta keep a sense of humour! | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 663 Registered: 1-2003  |
Reb, Are you attending the SDB church in Riverside? I live over in Glendora not far from Riverside. Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 623 Registered: 6-2006  |
Hey Richard!!! Great to see you! I was just thinking about you the other day. You must have been getting my vibes. Hope you're well and happy. Leigh Anne | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3873 Registered: 3-2004  |
Richard, It has been a long time. How are you Bible studies going? How is your daughter? Continue to pray for you. Diana | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 138 Registered: 10-2006 |
Reb, Your Adventist "friends" can only think you are lost because they cannot believe they are saved, at least not without trashing Ellen. steve | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 59 Registered: 5-2007  |
Here is an odd thought that just came to me: If Adventist are never sure if they have found the "way", that is, they are never sure of their salvation, how can they be so sure we are "lost" when we leave their "unsure way"? Phil (Message edited by philharris on June 26, 2007) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6147 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hmmm--good question, Phil! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3874 Registered: 3-2004 |
Oh, Phil, I like that question. May I borrow it and post it on CARM?? Diana | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 60 Registered: 5-2007 |
Diana, Sure, why not. I've been known to "stir the pot" so you can do it for me. Just remember to bring glory to God when you do so. Phil | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 65 Registered: 4-2007 |
What a dichotomy! While the theology of the SDA Church says 'you can never say you are saved': "We are never to rest in a satisfied condition, and cease to make advancement, saying, 'I am saved.' When this idea is entertained, the motives for watchfulness, for prayer, for earnest endeavor to press onward to higher attainments, cease to exist. No sanctified tongue will be found uttering these words till Christ shall come, and we enter in through the gates into the city of God. Then, with the utmost propriety, we may give glory to God and to the Lamb for eternal deliverance. As long as man is full of weakness,--for of himself he cannot save his soul,--he should never dare to say, 'I am saved.' It is not he that putteth on the armor that can boast of the victory; for he has the battle to fight and the victory to win. It is he that endureth unto the end that shall be saved. The Lord says, 'If any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.' If we do not go forward from victory to victory, the soul will draw back to perdition. We should raise no human standard whereby to measure character. We have seen enough of what men call perfection here below. God's holy law is the only thing by which we can determine whether we are keeping his way or not. If we are disobedient, our characters are out of harmony with God's moral rule of government, and it is stating a falsehood to say, 'I am saved.' No one is saved who is a transgressor of the law of God, which is the foundation of his government in heaven and in earth." (Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, 06-17-1890, paragraph 8.) This same Church believes that you must be a SDA in order to be saved! Go figure | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 194 Registered: 5-2007 |
You got that right, John. Richard, as for your question, Yes, I attend the SDB Church in Riverside. I really love it. There are many ex-SDAs there, including the Pastor. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 61 Registered: 5-2007 |
Assurance of Victory: Having spent a short tour in the Marine Corps, there is a motto that I especially like, concerning assurance of victory. It goes like this; "The Marines have landed, the victory is ours". During World War II, the newspapers had this banner headline over and over, at the very beginning of each invasion of the enemy. The battle was only beginning but it was claimed that the victory was ours. With an all powerful, infallible God as our military strategist, we can claim; "The Holy Spirit has landed in my heart, the outcome will end in victory". Sure, there is a battle to be fought, but the outcome is certain. Because of who God is, victory is sure. Phil | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 117 Registered: 5-2007 |
Reb, Can you explain why you are maintaining the 10C as a rule of doctrine? What is your reasoning or anchor point in this subject? Thanks, Jim | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 195 Registered: 5-2007 |
9 of the 10 were restated some way or another in the New Testament. As for the Sabbath it is out of preference and Paul even says in Rom it is ok, based on one's conscience. Thirdly, it's to keep peace in my family. My wife would NEVER in million years tolerate my going to a Sunday church. I am out of Adventism ONLY because I chose another denomination that worships on the Sabbath. Other than that the Seventh Day Baptists are pretty much like other Baptists and have a good handle on the true Gospel. I was SO HUNGRY for the Gospel I had to do WHATEVER it took to find the Gospel. The ONLY way for me, given my family situation was to go to the SDB church. At least my wife is tolerating this and she would NEVER tolerate me going to a Sunday church and I'm just not smart enough to win a debate with her or any Adventist for that matter on the Sabbath/Sunday issue. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6151 Registered: 12-2003 |
Reb, you were a convert to Adventism, weren't you? How long were you an Adventist? My experience, which admittedly is limited, suggests that those who are converts to Adventism and are not in it wholeheartedly for extended periods of time have less spiritual baggage associated with worshiping on the seventh day than do those who were immersed wholly for long periods in the idea that Sabbath is the final test of loyalty to God. Probably a majority of us eventually must leave Sabbath observance in order to place our faith only in Jesus. Otherwise, we find ourselves "hedging our bets" by arguing that Romans 14 permits observance of ANY or NO day. When a person has held Sabbath as a mark of loyalty to God, however, it is no longer an objective choice for that person. It is a spiritual symbol that we have to face squarely, realizing that it has held the place of an idol for us. Reb, my sense is that you would be just as comfortable with going to church on Sunday as on Saturday. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my sense is that your choice of Saturday is not so much the "hedging your bets" kind of choice most of us face as it is a pragmatic choice. Now, that being said, many here have previously addressed the issue of your wife "allowing" or "not allowing" you to worship on Sunday. That's a separate issue--worthy of exploration, doubtless, but a separate issue! What I'm finding is that these decisions we face, while on the surface appear to be simply pragmatic, underneath they hide deep heart issues of obedience and loyalty. The marvelous truth is that God is patient with us, and He never stops nudging us toward integrity, sometimes outright confronting us and other times quietly convicting. What matters is that we are committed to KNOWING and to OBEYING whatever God is teaching us at any given moment. Colleen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 197 Registered: 5-2007 |
I was an Adventist for 14 years, Colleen. Yes, my reason for choosing to worship on Saturday is purely pragmatic. You bet I would have NO PROBLEM myself going to church on Sunday, my wife would have a major "cow" if I did though. I trust Jesus 100% for my salvation, the day I choose to worship on does not matter. Paul even said in Rom 14 that the day doesn't matter. I'm just not smart enough to win a debate with my wife or any other Adventist on the Sabbath/Sunday issue. I am greatful the at least now I am being allowed to pursue my newfound beliefs and this is largely due to the fact that I have chosen a Church that meets on Saturday(Seventh Day Baptists). Before this I had actually tried a Sunday church, the Eastern Orthodox and I really liked it but I would never in a million years been allowed to switch to it. At least I am out of Adventism and am going to a church that believes in the Gospel even if they do meet on Saturday. Remember because I am perceived as being "ignorant" due to my not having been born and raised in Adventism and 100% educated in public rather than Adventist schools I am not taken seriously by my wife or any other Adventist on spiritual matters. I forgive them and I cannot change them. I can only love and witness through my behaviour as I have essentially been "gagged" as far as speaking. |
