| Author | Message | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 65 Registered: 5-2007  |
Years ago when I was working SDA theology out of my system, we were in a study of the book of First Timothy. When we came to chapter two, verse 9, I mentioned that this was the verse Adventists used to teach against the use of makeup and the wearing of jewelry. I Tim. 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; It was pointed out that everything following the comma right after "modest apparel" explained what is meant by modest apparel. And, if we were to have consistent logic, then not wearing makeup or jewelry means that women should also refrain from wearing clothes. Of course, what this really illustrates is the danger of building a doctrine on a few out-of-context verses. Phil | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3881 Registered: 3-2004  |
Phil, That is funny, if one follows that verse that way, to it's logical conclusion. Being single, before I left SDAism for good, I belonged to an SDA dating site. My picture on there showed I had make up, earrings, etc. One of the SDA men I was writing to asked me what I thought of that verse. By that time I had learned more about adventism, so my answer was, why do you ask? Do you have something you want to say to me? Come right out and say it. I am a big girl. All he answered was that we should not write to each other any more. Oh, well I thought. I laughed about it. God has taught me so much. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6160 Registered: 12-2003  |
Ha! Good point, Phil. The single proof-text method is such a dangerous way to come up with doctrines. Colleen | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 143 Registered: 10-2006 |
In a nutshell, the Adventist position is ultimately based on (1) doctrinal correctness; and 2) behavioral formulas to salvation. Perhaps the challenging question to ponder with Adventists is " does Jesus exist outside Adventism?" Only a yes or no answer will qualify. A "no" answer is a very revealing one to the questioner and the responder. A "yes" answer can lead to prayer and study together. Another path to co-discovery might be to explore how the "another gospel" in Galatians 1:6-9 contrasts with the idea of a modern day prophet and how that position fits in with the pure Gospel. I know, it's a bit idealistic, but it doesn't hurt to plant seeds of doubt. steve | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3885 Registered: 3-2004 |
Stevendi, Getting an adventist to give a yes or no answer is next to impossible. Go to CARM and read some of those threads. So, I pray for them. They are in God's hands and He knows what to do to help them. All we do is plant the seed. Diana | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 210 Registered: 5-2007 |
I ditto what Diana just said. I would almost laugh at some of the things Adventists write on CARM exxeot it's not funny. It's sad actually the depth of bondage they are in. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3890 Registered: 3-2004 |
Reb, I want to congratulate you. You post such controversial things, like the IJ. Thanks for letting God use you. Diana | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 214 Registered: 5-2007 |
You're welcome, Diana. Praise God! I just want to see Adventists learn the Gospel and know real freedom in Christ. I am on FIRE for the Gospel. After being deprived of it for so many years I am as hungry for it as a starving man is foor food. | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 144 Registered: 10-2006 |
Reb and Diana, Just to clarify, it's not a yes or no that is the object of the quest. It's planting an open-ended question for them (Spirit-led) to wrestle with. We don't need the answer, they do. steve | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3895 Registered: 3-2004 |
After reading your post, I will agree with you that I do not need the answer. It is planting the seed. Thanks for reminding me. Diana | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2007 |
I've discovered that Adventists are HARD to witness to. I've been writing to one of my sisters, who just cannot seem to "see." One thing I tried to point out to her is how the Bible clearly shows that the old testament command to not eat "unclean" meats represented separation from the "unclean" nations around Israel (Leviticus 20:24-26). Then in the new testament Peter was given a vision (Acts 10) where he learned not to call any man unclean. Romans 14:14 and 1st Timothy 4:1-5 say that no meats are "unclean" any longer. I pointed out to her where God told Noah after the flood that "every moving thing that lives" would be food for him. (Genesis 9:3) I also pointed out where Ellen White in her book "Patriarchs and Prophets" in the chapter "After the Flood," quoted that text. Then in her very next long sentence, she wrote that Noah had been given the "clean beasts" that had been preserved in the ark. My sister just seemed to think that that text contradicted the rest of the Bible. How do you argue with someone like that?!?! Dianne | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 328 Registered: 11-2005 |
I agree. It is almost impossible due to the kind of logic exposed in http://64.226.233.122/discus/messages/11/5710.html?1183485553 Adventism thinks it has the "truth", and is out to, as the article says, keep all the rest of us saved! How many other cults do we know of that teach the same Gnostic teaching? Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Cloudy Registered user Username: Cloudy Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2007 |
Dianne, You are fortunate to be able to come to logical conclusions so easily. It is not so easy to do when you have preconceived ideas about what the scriptures mean. I came to the conclusion that the investigative judgement doctrine was unscriptural in 1980 during the Ford controversy. But I decided then that regardless of the issues with EGW I did not want to throw the baby out with the bath water and just accepted that the SDA church was wrong on these 2 issues, but still right about the sabbath, state of the dead, health message, etc. I figured that no church was perfect so if I left where would I go? I closely identified knowing Jesus to the SDA church. I think I would be very defensive with anyone trying to argue me out of my truth into their truth. Reading has often been the best way I was able to think issues through carefully on my own without pressure from someone else to "see" what they "see". I don't know how I started getting Proclamation, but it has helped me to see that there are more than a couple problems with SDA doctrine. Also, Dale Ratzlaff has some excellent books available. Would your sister be interested in Proclamation or willing to read any of Dale's books? | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 250 Registered: 5-2007 |
My wife is where you were at in 1980, Cloudy. She admits, the IJ and also the Sunday Law stuff is wrong, agrees EGW was wrong on some things but holds on to the Sabbath, state of the dead, and health message. We just had a discussion this morning again about EGW and she admitted she doesn;t agree with the Sunday Law teaching and why don't I go back to the SDA church and just "ignore" it. I told her that's just the PROBLEM, there's so much in Adventist sermons that I have to let in one ear and out the other I just waste my time going there! I made it clear that I am very happy at and sticking with the Seventh Day Baptist church but I won't force it on her. If she wants to stay an Adventist that's her right and I won't bother it. But I can't! I was too traumatised by the IJ and SUnday Law teachings to ever go back. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 8 Registered: 7-2007 |
Cloudy, my sister has made it clear that she's not interested in reading anything. Lately I've been trying to keep my emails short and to the point in hopes that she will understand something. I've been wondering if it's because she's only been married about 5 years to a husband she carefully screened through the internet to make sure he believed (like herself) in the 1888 message (whatever that is), before she met him. Anyway both are conservative vegatarian Seventh-day Adventists. I've pleaded with her to fast from Ellen White for awhile and read just the Bible, but she refuses. Dianne | ||
| Cloudy Registered user Username: Cloudy Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2007 |
Reb, I was never averse to attending a church from another denomination or attending church on Sunday for that matter. I was there to worship God, not doctrines. But it would make me uncomfortable if a pastor would make a statement against something I believed in such as calling Sunday the sabbath. I would have difficulty joining another denomination if I was not in full agreement with all their teachings, but I would not be uncomfortable worshiping Jesus with others who do not share all my beliefs. Dianne, does your sister enjoy your emails or is she annoyed with them? Some people can be skeptical of someone else pointing out their errors. I'm sure you are trying to engage her in a 2 way conversation, but can you accept it if she does not want to defend her beliefs to you? I believe the 1888 message was that of righteousness by faith. | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 152 Registered: 10-2006 |
Gilbert, You stated "Adventism thinks it has the "truth", and is out to, as the article says, keep all the rest of us saved!" You don't suppose that, at least subliminally, they are claiming to be Christ, do you? (You don't have to answer, just funnin ya. steve | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 153 Registered: 10-2006 |
Wait a minute, let me rephrase that. How many out there would say Adventism is claiming to be a saviour? Just how much power do they believe their "truth" has? steve | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 341 Registered: 11-2005 |
Steve -- Well, as shown by the Review Article, they do believe that Jesus is waiting on the Seventh-day Adventist Church to complete its to-do list, so the Second Coming can be initiated. The article is pretty clear about God's dependency on the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Of course, I don't subscribe to that concept at all! Somehow it reminds me of the prophets of Baal whipping themselves into a frenzy in the hope that they would influence their "god". If Adventists will only work a little harder, Jesus can come sooner. How's that for an elitist attitude. That is so far removed from any Biblical foundation that its falsehood (and the author thereof) ought to be patently obvious to any sincere Bible student. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 156 Registered: 10-2006 |
Gil, Looks like we're on the same page. steve (Message edited by stevendi on July 04, 2007) |
