| Author | Message | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 939 Registered: 9-2006  |
No sooner than my feet hit the floor this morning, this thought hit me. In the past I have worried about whether the Adventist was saved or not, but is that really my job? What I mean by that is that the Bible says in Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. While of course we are to be concerned for a lost and dying world and have a burden for that, that is not quite what I am talking about. It dawned on me that my job is to minister the love of Christ on a minute by minute, case by case basis, and be prepared to minister that love twenty four hours a day and quit worrying about hypothetical cases, peoples and what not and to minister the word the best I know the Bible and to always be rejoicing in the love of God and his salvation, if I can’t do that what do I have for them to desire if I cannot minister in hope? If we are worried about this and that hypothetical case all the time it has got to take away from our well being. In other words we are where we are at the time and we probably need to live in the present, not the past or the future and to look for every opportunity to serve in his presence. In other words, let his praises continually be in my mouth. Having a good theology is wonderful and a must, I think we must be prepared with the word to the best of our ability and be prepared with the true gospel of Christ. What I am coming to believe is that the Lord would give me a whole lot more opportunities to minister if I am not so caught up in worrying about whether every one around me is so theologically correct or not. Know this folks, I am not talking about exposition of false doctrines such as what goes on here on this forum, what I am talking about is my personal ministry on a minute by minute and case by case basis to Adventist or whoever. I will continue to contend for the gospel on here and out there so I am not talking about that. Every contact we make with the humanity is a potential opportunity to extend the love of Christ from the first greeting to wife or husband or children, well, my children aren’t in the house anymore but some of you may have and from there on to our offices, stores, shopping, restaurant, and church. What can we do any one time accept to minister in the love of God in Christ Jesus wherever we are at the time? In other words walking in the Spirit in the love of Christ at all times and on all occasions, ouch, that hurt to say that because I know I don’t always do that. Mayhap I is and mayhap I ain’t! Paul talked about walking in the Spirit and not the flesh, well what is the flesh other than that that is dead? The old attitudes and the old ways, the things and concerns of this world yet that is where we will find most Christians and you can bet on it, if I were to take that to Vegas and throw it up for bets I would give 20 to 1 odds on it. Fact is that most of us probably go to church and walk in the spirit for an hour and a half then put on our old skins and go home. Most of the Adventist, from what it appears to me, want to be identified as Christians by Sabbath Attendance and by foods eaten, if that were all that walking in the spirit involved then no problem, I’ll just attend church on Saturday and hide my pork rinds. Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Galatians 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. My, my! What a passage in scripture text. Then he follows it up with that famous Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. I think what triggered these thoughts were this. Yesterday I called a dear Adventist friend whose wife had been seriously injured, I told them that we loved them and I ended by praying for them and terminating the conversation with heartfelt love for those people. Now you would have to know these gentle souls in order to understand my feeling toward them. Did I go away agreeing with their theology? No. I just gave them what I had to give, which was a phone call of love and concern for their welfare. He repeated the prayer to his injured wife as I prayed. What did I accomplish? I don’t have a clew. All I know is that I gave what I had to give at the time and I must trust the Lord with the rest. What was I to do? Say “Brother if you could just get out of that old Adventism things would be better ?” Not a good approach is it, at least not in my book. What do we have to extend to the world around us but the love of Christ? I am asking you? Is this correct thinking do you think? The reason I wanted to write to you folks is that in writing these thoughts out maybe there is something worth while that I can retain here in all this, something that I can take with me on my journey from minute to minute and throughout the days ahead. Maybe you might have some thoughts on it? River | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 45 Registered: 4-2007 |
"Preach the Gospel always, when necessary, use words." I love this statement. It seems very worthwhile to commit it to memory and follow the advice. While I'd like to attribute it to St. Francis, as it usually is, its not an exact quote. It is a paraphrase of his instruction to his friars where he exhorts the brothers not called to a ministry of public preaching to preach the Gospel with their deeds. I absolutely agree with you River that LOVE Is the first and most important thing we can share. Doctrinal correctness doesn't matter if Love is not there. Isn't that what St. Paul was telling us when he said deeds, even good deeds without love are worthless. God is Love. Of course truth matters, to willfully and knowingly remain where the gospel is distorted and lies are taught as truth is spiritual poison. I know people in all the different churches I work with that quietly preach the gospel with their deeds. Many don't have a lot of money and gas is getting expensive. Jobs are eating up more of their time as people take on extra work to make ends meet. Yet they will come out and spend their time and gas to see that the elderly of our community who can't get out of their homes get a hot meal. The volunteers often visit and pray with the people as they deliver meals . Their church's various belief statements or creeds are as different as can be yet in the simple act of providing a meal and companionship, those things don't seem to matter as much. This is the gospel to me, feeding the hungry, visiting the widows, loving one another. People find their way to knowing Jesus and living the gospel through all different kinds of denominational 'vehicles'. Some people's vehicles seem to have decent tires and gas to get them where they need to go. Some people have more 'car trouble' than others, but many do get there. Some people's vehicles have flat tires and burned up engines and they will have a difficult time of it unless they exchange some 'parts'. What the Holy Spirit can do with whatever they have available to them though is amazing. After all, even a car with a dead engine and flat tires can go somewhere if pushed. I'm not leaving Jesus out of this. Yes, the Holy Spirit gives us the push. Yes, people won't WANT to live the gospel in deeds if they don't truly know Jesus. But even when the word is "Jesus", having the words without the deeds won't do much to preach the gospel to others. anyway, my ramblings of the day River. God Bless, MarysRoses | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 118 Registered: 5-2007 |
River , I think all Christians are saved despite their incomplete or erroneous doctrines or beliefs. All Christians, include SDA call on Christ for salvation. "Many sheep I have not of this fold." But , what do you share? What you have been given. I guess what happens is people see someone who apppears to have it together, to have happiness in their faith walk. Obviously they will want to know how you got there. For others who are in spiritual conflict, I can imagine it is as varied as there are people. What comes to mind however is , you raised some concern about getting bogged down in so many words. This is why I believe it is so important to establish organization and order. For example , having a handy reference list of resource info. Many people will be happy to read on thier own. Others are simply hurting and the main giving they need will be compassion and encouragement. You are an ambassador for Christ. You give what you have. | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 196 Registered: 5-2007 |
I believe there are SDAs who are saved even if they don't realise they are saved. But when I was an SDA I didn't think I was saved because EGW taught not to say that one is saved. | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 619 Registered: 4-2006  |
I too believe that there are SDA's who are saved, and also I think they are being called out by God from that organization. The Gospel, the Good News is not "... feeding the hungry, visiting the widows, loving one another ...", thats the fruit of the Good News, that Jesus was executed on the cross, paying for the penalty of our sin and transgressions against Him, so that we can be saved by His grace, through faith in Him. In Jesus mighty hand, Martin | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6150 Registered: 12-2003  |
I agree. River, excellent insight. There are two different areas of focus: apologetics, which involves the study of and exposition of ture and false doctrine, and ministry. You are absolutely right; when we interact with people, we don't have to worry about whether they are saved or not--especially when they themselves profess belief. Our job is to minister the love of Jesus to them. The law of Christ is Love written on our hearts--and that's a profound reality when we realize that God IS Love. This law of love--Jesus Himself--dwelling in our hearts is the realization of Jesus' new command to love one another AS HE LOVED US—sacrificially—not sparing Christ's compassion from anyone, whether they are our enemy or our brother in Christ. Sometimes, as you pointed out, River, it is essential to explore the details of the false doctrines to which we are bound. Once we are made alive in Jesus and place our faith in Him, it becomes part of our obedience to Him to face the truth and to act on it. It is only in knowing the truth and seeing our own bondage to the sins of deception and dishonesty that Jesus can heal those bound places. As long as we don't acknowldge the depth of our error, we remain its slave in certain profound ways. But you are so right, River...when we mninister to people, we do call them to Jesus if that is warranted, but our main focus is loving them with the love of Jesus and allowing His Spirit to comfort and convict them. Sometimes that love means speaking plainly about the confusion or fear we observe--but such speaking is never warranted out of the blue, so to speak. And I so agree with the statements above: Jesus saves us regardless of our doctrinal understandings if we are open to knowingn Him. Our salvation doesn't depend upon our knowing the doctrinal truth about Jesus. It involves our being willing to trust Him, even when we're don't have doctrine figured out. Once we trust Him, He leads us step by step into the truth. He promised His disciples that He would send the Holy Spirit to guide them into all truth. That is what He does...and He asks us to follow Him with that same trust with which we allowed Him to forgive and save us in the first place. You're right, River, we don't have to know or even worry a lot about whether or not a person is saved as we minister to him/her. The Lord Jesus is faithful to make us aware of those times when we are to confront people with the need to trust and repent. We are to obey the Lord Jesus and make disciples, operating with everyone around us on the basis of the Law of Christ which is Love Himself living in us. Colleen | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 46 Registered: 4-2007 |
The Gospel, the Good News is not "... feeding the hungry, visiting the widows, loving one another ...", thats the fruit of the Good News, that Jesus was executed on the cross, paying for the penalty of our sin and transgressions against Him, so that we can be saved by His grace, through faith in Him. ____ I think if someone reads the entire post they will see I was discussing living the gospel in deeds. The Gospel is the GOOD NEWS. Mark begins his gospel "This is the beginning of the GOOD NEWS of Jesus Christ" I don't think that is limited to only selected events, no matter how central and how important they are. In our culture, for some people, you can talk all day and tell them about Jesus all you want, and they are so desensitized they won't even hear you. There has to be some way of reaching these people, and it will be with the testimony of our lives, not our words. What I had in mind when I consider all of following Jesus' teaching to be 'Gospel': Matthew 25:34-36 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress . . . Again River, I so completely agree with your post. God bless, MarysRoses | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6156 Registered: 12-2003 |
MarysRoses, I'm sorry if I gave the impression I was disagreeing with you. I wasn't! I enjoy your posts; you have a lot of insight. Colleen | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 47 Registered: 4-2007 |
Wasn't your post I was responding too, and I'm sorry I responded at all really. I am used to a different vocabulary and sometimes it gets frustrating to try and communicate. Sorry for being a bit too quick to post a rebuttal. God Bless MarysRoses (Message edited by MarysRoses on June 27, 2007) (Message edited by MarysRoses on June 27, 2007) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 944 Registered: 9-2006 |
Thanks all for your thoughts on this subject. Quote: "Preach the Gospel always, when necessary, use words." That just about says it, St Frances was probably a wise man Marysroses and I think it just about wraps my thoughts up in one sentence. Concerning the full gospel I quite agree, the full gospel might be considered as the gospel presented and the gospel lived. Did you ever have thoughts that seem to be coming outside yourself? That is the way it was with that line of thinking I had yesterday morning, I think it was the Holy Spirit teaching me. I suppose he starts teaching upon my arising from sleep because my mind is uncluttered when I wake up, it seems as this has happened a few times during the last six months. It is not as though I lacked this knowledge before but brought a deeper conviction to carry his love to all contacts, to reach out to everyone on a case by case basis. I think the Holy Spirit does enhance, as it were, our thinking, at times. I think all this has carried me into a deeper realization of the gospel presented and the gospel lived. As Colleen so aptly put it “There are two different areas of focus: apologetics, which involves the study of and exposition of pure and false doctrine, and ministry. I think in this case the focus was on ministry, the key word being focus, it is as if the Holy Spirit shines a light on a particular area, it doesn’t mean that other areas don’t exist but he wishes us to focus on that particular area and helps us in our overall growth. Marysroses, a note on this mode of communication, misunderstandings of what we intend to say happens quite often on a forum such as this, however it also has its plus side. For one, when we write out our thinking it helps us to solidify our thinking process and also uncover weaknesses as well as strengths. I have been in communications for some years, if you think this is sometimes a little exasperating try it over a microphone, at least you get someone answering on here.  If you don't post nobody will know you exist and nobody can be blessed by your presence either. That goes for all you lurkers out there. River |
