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Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1115 Registered: 4-2000
| Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 4:12 pm: | |
quote:Over the years I have encountered many Seventh Day Adventists who have told me that to worship on Sunday is to take the mark of the Beast. Far from being monolithic, however, Seventh Day Adventism is multifaceted. First, there are Adventists who are thoroughly orthodox. As such, they embrace the essentials of the historic Christian faith. While we may vigorously debate secondary issues we are unified around the essentials for which the martyrs shed their blood. Furthermore, there are Adventists who are thoroughly liberal. They not only compromise and confuse but consistently contradict essentials of the faith such as the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection, and the infallibility fo Scripture. Finally, there are traditionalists who major on aberrant Adventist doctrines including soul sleep, Sabbatarianism, and the seer status of Ellen G. White. In sharp distinction to soul sleep the Bible provides ample evidence that the soul continues to exist apart from the body (Phillipians 1:23-24). Likewise, God himself provided early Christians with a new pattern of worship through Christ's resurrection on the first day of the week as well as the Spirit's descent on Pentecost Sunday. Additionally, while Ellen White (1827-1915) claimed divine authority for her prophecies, she was obviously wrong when she prophesied that she would be alive at the second coming of Christ. --------- For further study, see Hank Hanegraaff, "Why do Christians worship on Sunday rather than on the Sabbath day?" and "Is there evidence for life after death?" The Bible Answer Book Volume 1 (Nashville: J. Countryman, 2004), 70-72, 165-169. Hebrews 4:9-10 "There remains then, a Sabbath--rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his." [Excerpts from Hank Hanegraaff's THE BIBLE ANSWER BOOK, Volume 2, pp. 134-135]
I have both Volume 1 and 2 of THE BIBLE ANSWER BOOK by Hank Hanegraaff. While I disagree on some of his thoughts about Seventh-day Adventism, there is an abundance of helpful information in these two books. As a side note, the book editor didn't correct Hank's misspelling of Seventh-day Adventism (smile). Dennis Fischer (Message edited by Dennis on June 22, 2007) |
Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1116 Registered: 4-2000
| Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 4:48 pm: | |
WHY DO CHRISTIANS WORSHIP ON SUNDAY RATHER THAN ON THE SABBATH DAY?
quote:Although some Christian traditions denounce Sunday worship as the end time "mark of the beast," there are good reasons why millions of Christians gather on the first day of the week for worship. First, in remembrance of the resurrection the early Christian church changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. Within weeks, thousands of Jews willingly gave up a theological tradition that had given them their national identity. God himself had provided the early church with a new pattern of worship through Christ's resurrection on the first day of the week as well as the Holy Spirit's descent on Pentecost Sunday. Furthermore, Scripture provides us with the reasons behind the symbol of the Sabbath. In Genesis, the Sabbath was a celebration of God's work in creation (Genesis 2:2-3; Exodus 20:11). After the Exodus, the Sabbath expanded to a celebration of God's deliverance from oppression in Egypt (Deuteronomy 5:15). As a result of the resurrection, the Sabbath emphasis shifted once again. It became a celebration of the "rest" we have through Christ who delivers us from sin and the grave (Hebrews 4:1-11). For the emerging Christian church, the most dangerous snare was a failure to recognize that Jesus was the substance that fulfilled the symbol of the Sabbath. ================================================ In the end, religious rites must inevitably bow to redemptive realties. ================================================ Finally, if you insist on being slavishly bound to Old Testament laws you should also be forewarned that failing to keep the letter of the law might be hazardous to your health. According to the Mosaic Law, anyone who does any work on the Sabbath "must be put to death" (Exodus 35:2). As the apostle Paul explains, however, "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for sin, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree'" (Galatians 3:13). The Sabbath was "a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ" (Colossians 2:17). In the end, religious rites must inevitably bow to redemptive realties. [Excerpts taken from Hank Hanegraaff's THE BIBLE ANSWER BOOK, Volume 1, pp.70-73]
Dennis Fischer (Message edited by Dennis on June 22, 2007) |
River Registered user Username: River
Post Number: 922 Registered: 9-2006
| Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 8:03 am: | |
Quote: First, there are Adventists who are thoroughly orthodox. As such, they embrace the essentials of the historic Christian faith. While we may vigorously debate secondary issues we are unified around the essentials for which the martyrs shed their blood. Dennis, this statement sets of alarm bell’s and I mean really sets them off. First of all I know several Adventist from around the country in different churches. That statement smacks of compromise and I don’t mind saying it, I don’t judge Adventism by the things I might agree on with them but by the spirit that drives this cult. That spirit that compels them to deceit and in turn deceive others. While there may be people within the Adventist church that are orthodox in their beliefs, even so, I feel they have compromised the orthodoxy by remaining in a church driven by this spirit of deceit. I think that at all times and all occasions we need to keep in mind the driving force behind Adventism, many will disagree with me on this and see no spirit driving force, there are many who try to coat this thing with honey, try to sluff it off and have it both ways. When we fail to see the driving force behind Adventism we invite compromise. I know this sounds harsh, but I don’t intend to sugar coat Adventism and try to dress it up to fit. Issues don’t save. This is not an issue battle it is a spiritual battle and whether we like it or not we are in the war. River |
Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1119 Registered: 4-2000
| Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 9:28 am: | |
Good observation, River! Hank's stance on Adventism is a bit too mellow in light of the facts. Dennis Fischer |
Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6117 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 11:27 pm: | |
I agree with you, River. This is a spiritual battle, and we must not camouflage the real issue. How Adventism appears to an observer does not reveal the underlying truth about it. Dennis, Hank's explanation of Sunday/Sabbath is insightful. Colleen |
River Registered user Username: River
Post Number: 925 Registered: 9-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 6:24 am: | |
Quote:How Adventism appears to an observer does not reveal the underlying truth about it. Very right Colleen, I shouldn't be too rough on old Hank, I am tending to believe that if God hadn't of allowed me to see these things and led me through the path's he did I would not be able to really discern Adventism at all. I don't pretend to know the purpose behind this at this time, but I need to keep remembering this and not get too excited when I hear those statements made and be a little more humble about it. A casual observer of Adventist issues will not normally recognize the depths of Adventism for these are hidden depths and deceits and it is subtle. In fact as I think about it the issues may very well cover (camouflage) the real spirit that drives Adventism. The facts are that it was along time before I finally was able to declare " I see you, you tried to hide but you are no longer able". Either I am slow in the head and so dull of thinking as to qualify for state help or that was an act of the Holy Spirit in revealing this stuff. As I have stated earlier I don’t pretend to know the purpose behind all this, but I desire to yield myself to him for his purposes and I realize also that I may never know his reasons and his purposes may be carried out without my knowing it. We walk by faith and there are times when our faith my be stretched to what we feel is the breaking point, but we will not allow our faith to be broken if we continue on to follow him as best we can and trust him and not go faltering. Now I am a good one to expound on that. Day before yesterday discouragement hit me like a ton of bricks and I went around mumbling the whole day to myself and the Lord that I was through with dealing with Adventism, out, kaput. I do need your prayers, I am just a little bedraggled right now. River |
Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 3858 Registered: 3-2004
| Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 1:17 pm: | |
Yes, River, SDAs are very difficult to deal with, even when you know what is happening. What I do when I see that happening in me is just quit writing on CARM for a while and pray for SDAs. They need to know the real Jesus of the Bible. I will keep you in my prayers and your work with SDAs. Diana |
Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6126 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 8:24 pm: | |
River, I am praying for you. I don't know God's purposes, but I thank Him for you and your insight which are so clarifying to us. I praise Him for what He has done for us through you! Colleen |
River Registered user Username: River
Post Number: 928 Registered: 9-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 8:51 pm: | |
Thank you for praying, I really needed it. I went to my Pastor tonight and ask him how he handled discouragement and as he began to speak God began to speak to my heart concerning some things. As the service proceeded we had a missionary to Kyrgyztan and all through his presentation the Holy Spirit spoke through him to me of things I needed to understand about taking the gospel to any people, no matter who they are and I came away from church service tonight with a different view. The Holy Spirit touched me tonight and I feel a lot better. By the way the Pastor told me how he handles discouragement and I will share with you this much of it. Put one foot down in front of the other, the options if we quit are not preferable. There is nothing to quit to. I thank God for uplifting me. River |
Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 3867 Registered: 3-2004
| Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 9:08 pm: | |
River, I praise God for you and thank God for you. I am tired so I will quit for tonight. Diana |
Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6133 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 12:20 pm: | |
Praise God, River. And thank you for sharing your pastor's encouragement. He's right...we have to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Quitting is not an option. I frequently find myself asking Jesus to be all I need since absolutely nothing else--not even optimism--is guaranteed or even within reach. Colleen |
Reb Registered user Username: Reb
Post Number: 190 Registered: 5-2007
| Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 12:27 pm: | |
River, I so agree with what you have said in this thread! |
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