| Author | Message | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2007 |
Another question - this has been a strange morning. About 9:00 this morning the doorbell rang. My husband answered it, I was still in my pajamas. It was two guys - Jehovah Witnesses. I heard my husband quickly cut them off and politely say " no thank you, not interested". Slam, goes the door in their face. Off they go to the next house. Most of the world looks at them and says "Crazy cult members who bug me on Saturday mornings". I used to say that. But now, after what I have been through I feel sincere deep empathy for them. Severaly years ago, while firmly in the SDA church, I attempted to have a conversation with a JW lady who came to my door. She actually returned several times to talk. Looking back I see what that conversation really was. Two close-minded, brainwashed cult members, each trying to convince the other they were right. I actually sat there and tried to convince her of the sabbath! Talk about the blind leading the blind. My question is... what is my responsibility to these people now when they come to my door? I wish I would have taken their hand, looked in their face and said "you don't have to do this. You can get out. I did and you can too." But I did nothing. I have been there, I understand their situation. I have ingathered! What have any of you done? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Sometimes I feel like I know exactly what I am doing and days like today I feel clueless. Thanks. Laurie | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3770 Registered: 3-2004  |
In the past before I left adventism for good, but was not an SDA, I would invite the LDS people in for a drink of water and let them use my bathroom. I even prayed with them. I did not try to convince them I was right. I just wanted to be friendly. A week before Easter Sunday, this year, some JWs came to my door and invited me to celebrate Jesus' death. I told them I celebrate Jesus Life and resurrection and that He now sits at the right hand of God. They left. God will give you the words to say, as He did for me. He is always awesome. Diana | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 605 Registered: 4-2006  |
Dear Laurie, I never was a SDA, but I would recommend treating them with love, show them that you love and care for them. You can share with them your testimony on how you were saved by Jesus Christ and if you will you can go on tearing down their spiritual strongholds. "For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ." 2 Corinthians 10:3-5 You can be a tool for the Lord by demolishing their arguments with His powerful Word. I can recommend the do's and dont's here: http://www.towertotruth.net/Do'sandDont's.htm I pray that that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God, being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, and joyfully giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light. In Jesus, Martin | ||
| 91steps Registered user Username: 91steps Post Number: 152 Registered: 8-2005  |
Mwh, very well put, despite what JW's believe, we still need to treat them with Christian love! One of my oldest and best friends is a LDS and a very devote Christian. He knows I worship on a different day then he does but we both respect each others right to worship when/how we want. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6061 Registered: 12-2003  |
We have some friends who are former Jeshovah's Witnesses. (Funny thing...their story sounds SO MUCH like ours...!). They said that when those JWs come to the door, the worst thing it to be rude. They interpret those responses as their being persecuted for righteousness' sake...sound familiar? They said when JWs come to their door, they tell them about knowing Jesus and about their total security in salvation. Because they know JW doctrine, they COULD argue it...but they just focus on telling them about Jesus and about being saved. They said that the JWs will likely not respond with a desire to have what you have (at least not right then!), but they said it's those kinds of testimonies that start their armor to cracking. They say that (like so much of Adventism), the reality of the sniping, gossip, and judgmentalism within the church is so bad and in such stark contrast with what they teach the church is that many JWs have dissonance internally. Our friends say that hearing people speak of Jesus and of knowing Him will make them have questions. It will begin a dynamic of cognitive dissonance. This, they told us, is what JWs need to hear. This is what they never experience within the church, even though they believe they have all the correct doctrines and that their beliefs are "air-tight". Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3782 Registered: 3-2004 |
Colleen, Then what I told the JW when they came by my house was the good thing to say. Besides celebrating Jesus resurrection, I told them I celebrate Jesus every day. I knew it was not me talking. God gave me the words to say. You are awesome God. Diana | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 884 Registered: 10-2002  |
Colleen, thank you for sharing that. Last year sometime a JW or two came by our old apartment and I turned them away, citing the fact that I can't really speak much Japanese. Then what did they do but send two English-speakers a few months later! Two nice young ladies who had spent time in the States, I believe. They happened to catch me as I was sleeping in, so I looked something of a wreck -- interestingly, that didn't stop them from trying to continue with their pitch! (C'mon! Manners, people!) They got well into their pitch before I was able to tell them that oh, hey, I'm a Christian. That changed things, of course. So they asked me about the Trinity and so on. They had some re-interpretation of John 1, so I said, "Wait, I'll go get my Greek Bible".  That gently nuked that one. I told them I grew up Seventh-day Adventist and that raised their eyebrows, because it seemed that they had some kind of respect for Adventists, maybe because they were somehow "closer" to the truth (the JW truth, I guess). So I told them how God had led me out of Adventism and into resting in His Son, and how His Spirit is REAL, how you can know God and live knowing Him and in joy & peace with Him. It's not like knowing things "about" someone, but really knowing a Person and talking with Him and hearing Him talk back to you. After all that I suppose they figured they couldn't get anywhere, so they wanted to leave their magazines but I politely declined to accept them. I think in retrospect that I wish I'd had something to give them in exchange! After they left I agonized in the Spirit for them... praying for the veil to be lifted. They were beautiful, precious people and they needed God, not this stuff. I wished I could've gone to a cafe and studied or prayed, and I wished that they would come back someday, but they didn't and we moved. I haven't forgotten them. Thank you for sharing what the other former JW's shared, Colleen, because it helps me know that what I shared can help them. It gives me peace knowing that that is what former JW's have said. So I pray that God used and uses what I shared to help them "dissonate" and seek Him for Himself, for who He really is, and leave all the junk behind in pursuit of Him outside their walls. ***** It reminds me that my sister-in-law's ex-boyfriend here grew up JW. She's still praying for him and so are we. In God's timing, maybe we can pray, share & study together. Please pray for him. ***** Also, my friend David in Kobe studies with and helps out a gospel choir. God used him to lead many of the members to Christ. One of them, a girl, grew up Adventist, ironically! So David mentioned that he knew me & Yoko in Osaka... in God's timing hopefully we can all meet and get grounded more in the truth of His love and all-sufficiency. (When David had taken the choir to a Spirit-filled Christian church, she said that the difference was like night and day compared to the Adventist church.) So please pray for her. Thanks. | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 295 Registered: 11-2005 |
This isn't about JWs, but I found out an interesting fact about Mormon missions. I was at a highschool graduation party today, and saw a patient of mine who is a Mormon, and also just graduated. I knew from his previous "6 month check-up" that he was applying for his 2 year mission service. I asked him about it, and whether he was nervous about it, etc. He started talking to me about some of the rules of missions. Did you know they are only allowed 4 phone 45-minute phone calls over the 2 years? Mother's day and Christmas. That's it. No other phone contact. I was so shocked!! This young man is only 18. His parents and family are going to miss out on two years of his life! And those are significant, life-changing years! I couldn't believe it. Already in just the past year (from his junior year to his senior year), he's changed so much. He's become more mature, looks older, talks different, etc. I can't imagine what 2 years will do. And his parents will be missing out on this transformation! For a religion that emphasizes "family", I thought it was strange. Anyways, I didn't mean to get sidetracked on this thread, but since we were talking about cults... Grace | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1104 Registered: 4-2000  |
Laurie, First of all, it is refreshing that Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons fully identify themselves at your door (e.g., not like SDA colporteurs who tell people they are from the "Home Health Education Service"). I always tell JWs and Mormons that I understand their sincerity. The last Mormon boys to visit our home requested my giving them quotes from Ellen White that largely resembled those of Joseph Smith on many topics. Generally, I have found that Jehovah's Witnesses tend to be less formally-educated than most people. Consequently, like in Adventism, those who have never been inside a college classroom make the best followers of a cult. In short, be kind and polite to them. I often want to visit with them more intently than they want to visit with me (smile). They soon perceive that they have better prospects down the street. To their surprise, I am not in the least upset with their being at my doorstep. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 885 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hi Dennis, I thought I'd mention that the JW's over here that have rung our doorbell have taken a more indirect approach... they would begin with a kind of sales-pitch, something like, "Are you concerned about the violence (etc.) on TV?" And that would lead into whatever. It took me awhile to find "Watchtower" on the magazine that we got from them once when we weren't home when they came around (it was stuffed in our mailbox). The interesting thing in Japan is that although there are a lot of cults in Japan, most people are very wary of them and very good at instantly sniffing out if a group is a cult or not. The way something is presented, the way it's packaged, the things it says, the pictures it has -- it's just instantly recognizable, "Oh, this is a cult." Hi Grace, Your story reminds me of how we (as SDA missionaries) used to admire the Mormon mission program... we thought it was very well put together, with good language training and preparation, etc. The parents, we heard, start saving money for their children's mission trips from the time that the children are very small. Some of the more zealous missionaries (I guess I may have been one of them) also admired the fact that the Mormons were more straightforward than the SDA missions/schools. LDS offered *free* English classes (ours cost money, but our Bible classes were free). And the LDS went around in uniforms of a sort -- a black tie, white dress shirt and black dress pants. On one hand we thought it was silly, but the more religious side of us admired the uniformity or up-frontness of it, how they weren't ashamed, etc. Now, however, things look different, and I can see how cultic and odd such missionaries look to normal Japanese people. When Yoko and I got our first apartment, we overlooked a shopping street and I once watched two LDS (always in pairs) go up and down the street strategically looking for an opportunity to talk to someone. The unfortunate side-effect is that when I tell people I used to be a "missionary", the first thing that pops in their head is "Mormon". Oh well. Oh, the Mormons are also the only adults I've ever seen wearing bicycle helmets here, which looks a bit funny in itself. Also, I thought it was a little funny that they wear black ties -- black ties are reserved for serious occasions here, mainly funerals, I think. Anyway, no main point to these stories. My understanding of "missionary" has changed A LOT since I returned to Japan as a husband and became a regular English teacher. Yet now I am more of a missionary than ever before in my life! Being a "missionary" has nothing to do with having a church send or sponsor you. It has everything to do with being filled with God's love and heart for the people He's sending you to, and it has everything to do with waiting on Him to reach them with His love, flowing with His Spirit because His Spirit has gone ahead of you. Like Christ said, "I do nothing without the Father" and "I see what He is doing and join Him in it", it is the same for missionaries. God is the Worker, He's the one, and you just follow along. And above all, you wait, listen, and love. Blessings in Jesus, Ramone | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3788 Registered: 3-2004 |
Ramone, I like the sentence you wrote: "It has everything to do with being filled with God's love and heart for the people He's sending you to, and it has everything to do with waiting on Him to reach them with His love, flowing with His Spirit because His Spirit has gone ahead of you....God is the worker, He's the one, and you just follow along. And above all, you wait, listen, and love." I am finding the same thing as a Christian. We serve such an awesome God. Diana | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1105 Registered: 4-2000 |
Ramone, Just this morning a JW man came to our door delivering an invitation to a mass rally downtown. This was a new approach it seems like. Usually, they simply want to leave a Watchtower magazine or article. I liked your article in Proclamation magazine. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 889 Registered: 10-2002 |
Thanks, Dennis! About JW, I suppose it's inevitable that their approach is going to change after some eons of people turning them away. I've GOT to find something to give back to them the next time they come...! Yes, Diana, God is awesome!! The more I stay in Him longer, the bigger and bigger He seems to get!! |
