| Author | Message | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 870 Registered: 9-2006  |
In the four gospels Jesus expounded on many things, he expounded on heaven, hell and the grave, on healing, being set free, prayer, demons and so forth as he traveled the towns and country side where the people were. He expounded on the kingdom of heaven and gave example, he expounded on how different people receive the word and again, gave example and talked about the judgment to come. One of the most amazing statements he made that came to my mind is this Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. As a young born again person I came to this statement and it was a shocking statement to me, it rocked my boat so to speak, I felt like a man in a canoe who has stood up suddenly and desperately tries to stabilize the canoe. I was like the disciples, asking the question “Lord is it I?” my heart was tender toward my new found savior and this statement left an indelible mark on my soul and today I still think it is one of the most profound statements made in the gospels. In his name, cast out devils, prophesied and worked? What a profound statement! One of the disciples said to Jesus in one place “Who then can be saved?” I have a little more understanding of the scripture since then, but then along came the Adventist and again it was like I suddenly stood up in my canoe and the further I looked into that world the more wiggly the thing became and it seemed I was afraid to keep standing up and afraid to set down. I looked in amazement at this vastly different world than what I was used too and the further I looked the more amazed I became. At first it all sounded O.K., they sounded earnest and sincere and Saturday worship didn’t bother me a whit. In fact it was through my association with them that the Lord called me to the repentance spoken of in Revelation in his message to the churches, I had grown lukewarm and I had left my first love and I needed to do my first works over. I have learned through the years that God will bless me no matter who or where I worship, I have even worshiped with the Catholics (no offense Marysroses) , one-ness’s and so forth, people I vastly differ with in theological understanding and have come to the conclusion about that, that it is the Spirit of God within me that blesses and not the spirit that lies within them necessarily. It does not un-fill one with the Spirit to go into a strange place providing one is filled with the Spirit before he went there. I have heard people say, especially in the Pentecostal circles, that they “just did not feel the Spirit there”, but I am convinced that one should look to himself in those cases and not place blame on those around him. So just because I was being blessed I knew was no sign to me that they (Adventist) had a correct theology or even whether they contained the true Spirit of God. I suppose I have written all this to bring it around full circle to that statement Jesus made in Matthew 7:21-22-23. Just think about this a minute, what would it be like to stand in amazement before the savior with a lifetime of work, belief and practice only to find you didn’t really know him nor he you. It is habitual to most services we attend to finish up our prayers with these words “We ask these things in Jesus name”, a striking statement was made in Acts 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. Acts 19:14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. Acts 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? These folks even apparently had the demons confused so they just used the mans body in whom they dwelt to wail the tar out of them. I really don’t know what the point of all this is nor what you will get from reading this, I am not writing this to hint that someone is not saved nor bring judgment on anyone or a people, I guess what I want to get to is that if it were not possible for the people that Jesus mentioned to exist he wouldn’t have made the statement in the first place. In the verses previous to that he warns them Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Do the prophets “know” they are false prophets? I looked up the word ‘ravening’ and one of the meanings for the word is ‘predatory’ and of course the wolf is a predatory animal by nature, does this bring anything you know to mind? It appears from Jesus statement in Matthew 7:22 that these people are surprised and shocked to the point being dumfounded and exasperated at the Lord. How could we have been so wrong, after all we did it all in your name Lord, surly you will accept us! After all we had goals, we worked, we preached, we baptized, we visited the ones that did not believe like us, and we talked to our neighbors, we went to great expense, built buildings, sent missionaries to the deepest jungles. Now I am stretching the idea a bit or maybe I am not, but from what I can get out of the scripture these are in all likelihood a deeply religious people that Jesus describing here, at least that is the possibility I get from it. Does the wolf necessarily know he is a wolf or does the false prophet necessarily know he is a false prophet? As the line in the movie “The Shawshank Redemption” goes “Don’t you know we are all innocent here?” Well folks, I am just sharing some thoughts with the thinkers out there in byte land. Being on this forum reminds me of a person just sitting fishing using a bobber as an indicator as to whether he is getting a bite or not, sometimes someone’s thread will only produce a nibble and the bobber barely moves and sometimes the old bobber is just taken clean under and the old pole gets yanked on hard. The most amazing thing is, as I have mentioned, I have to come up with an article for a Christian magazine due on the 14th of the month, just a short article, and sometimes I drag my feet a little and get a warning by e-mail that it is due on the desk by 14th. Amazingly, what I write on here sometimes makes an article with only a few changes addressed to the general public and the amazing array of answers both to your post and my own post brings correction, admonition, rebuke, blessing, and an array of thinking I never thought imaginable before I came here and needless to say I am blessed by all of you. River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3772 Registered: 3-2004  |
River, I appreciate your thoughts that you write for us to read. I do not understand everything, but it gives me a lot to think about and pray about. Thanks for being here. Diana | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 606 Registered: 4-2006  |
"Does the wolf necessarily know he is a wolf or does the false prophet necessarily know he is a false prophet?" River Yes and No. Some really do I think and some really don't. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6063 Registered: 12-2003  |
River, I have pondered this passage also. Externally, those to whom Jesus says, "I never knew you" look like active Christians who are doing the work of God. It's interesting to me that they are even casting out demons and healing the sick. The one thing that matters is actually knowing Jesus—not knowing about Him and hanging with "the church", but actually knowing Him: being born again. It's so awesome, River, that you are able to get your articles written sometimes as a result of "thinking" here with us. Praise God! Thanks again for the great insights...and I also suspect that many false prophets are deceived. They themselves believe the strong delusion. The antidote to this deception is knowing Jesus. If one doesn't anchor his whole life in the Savior, the ideas, theological nuances, etc. that float around can be quite compelling. Without knowing Jesus personally, being born again and filled with His Spirit, all those ideas become merely philosophical arguments. The most "logical" argument wins. Jesus, though, IS reality and truth. He is the only way we can stay rooted in what's real. Colleen |
