| Author | Message | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 33 Registered: 5-2007 |
I guess this is a familiar question. I have been searching and have visted a couple churches already. I have looked at websites. It is time consuming. I doubt that I will find a 100% perfect match. Colleen touched on this with me already. Probably and possibly not even a good question when asking people what is a good church. Does anyone know examples of churches that do not preach tithing, nor try to reintroduce Sunday as a Sabbath. Are there any churches that have a good understanding of new covenant parameters and avoid trying to reyoke the law on people, spiritual abuse etc? Why is tithing such an important issue. By the same token that tithe teaching churches teach this by way of guilt trips. After escaping from this abuse, why walk back into yet another source of that kind of thinking? About the best I can propose at this time is to attend a Church for the sake of worship and fellowship, but accept that I cannot join as a member due to the fact there is a basic disagreement on doctrine. Perhaps there will never be another "membership" status for me. I am not too enthused about any suggestions of rebaptism. Baptism means something, does it not? I have been baptised Catholic as an infant and a SDA twice. That is enough for a lifetime. Being Baptised yet again just seems not right to me. Former SDA it appears come from a unique perspective. Yet , without a doubt, we need fellowship. Keys any one? | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 574 Registered: 6-2006  |
Jim, my favorite suggestion on searching for a church home is to look for a church that only points to Christ and not itself. There are so many great churches out there. Also I can tell you that in all the regular Christian churches I've been to (many different denominations) not one has ever claimed that Sunday is the Sabbath. Sabbath is just not an issue because it was the sign of a covenant between Isreal and God. There are a lot of churches that have a "tithe" sermon once a year or a "cheerful giving" sermon. Don't let that get you down. Most of these churches will leave it at that. The time you need to run is when they insist that you must tithe no matter what, or that it somehow has something to do with your faith in Christ or your salvation. Also, many good Christian churches will not have a problem with your having already been baptised. The Evangelical Lutheran church where I attened is happy to accept new members and never insist that they be "rebaptised". Although I do know that some Baptist churches suggest that you get baptised upon membership. I believe the Baptist denomination is a great church even though we differ on that subject. What kind of churches are in your neighborhood? Is there one you'd like to try? Throw out some names and I'm sure you'll get some good feedback.  Leigh Anne | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 570 Registered: 3-2001 |
Jim, As you search for a church home, keep your focus on Christ and your relationship with him. Don't allow yourself to fall into the trap of aligning yourself with a particular denomination or organized group. That group is there for one purpose and one purpose alone: to support believers as they grow in their relationship with him. All churches are part of the Universal Body of Christ, so if they start placing too much emphasis on membership or on what distinguishes them from other Christians, it is a good indication that it may not be a healthy congregation. Stay in the Word and be open to where the Spirit is leading. The church that you attend should compliment where you are right now. That's not to say that it is the church you will be in for the rest of your life. As you grow, you may find you have different needs. Just keep repeating to yourself, "there is no true church," "there is not true church." (by true I mean "the one true church.") The tendency is to leave Adventism because you find it is not the true church, then set out looking for the one that is. If you do this, you will be disappointed. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5997 Registered: 12-2003  |
I agree, Leigh Anne and Doug. One problem I see all too often is people who have left Adventism but don't become involved in any other church. Most people who are in the process of leaving Adventism have a strong desire to find other "formers" and meet with them for church. I'm frequently asked if I know where there are former Adventist churches. The answer? NO! Such a thing would be unhealthy. When we leave Adventism, we need two things: the support and fellowship of others who are processing (or have processed) the same things we're experiencing, and we NEED fellowship, prayer, and study with Christians who don't have our background and Biblical biases. We think we need to find a church that has all the doctrines "right"--but guess what? Doctrines vary! What we all have to learn is that there are just a core of non-negotiable truths. Other issues are secondary and do not have to impede true fellowship. The three non-negotiables are: the identity of Jesus/Trinity, the centrality of the cross (which translates into how we are saved), and the inerrancy of the Bible. Beyond this, people may want to find churches where certain other things are upheld: some are more "charismatic", etc. What really matters is what happens at the church. Are the sermons based on preaching the Bible instead of "positive thinking" or psychology, etc.? Are the people actually involved in small groups, Bible study, etc.? Is there actual joy in the Spirit? It is more important to become involved as fast as possible in a healthy church than almost anything else when one leaves. As several have already said, the first church where you settle may not be the one you attend forever. God knows what you need, and He will guide you there. Sometimes people are led to certain churches for very specific reasons for a time, and then God moves them on. I have had people say to me, "I can't actually worship at_______because they believe in the rapture" or because "they believe in eternal hell." Guess what? These issues do not affect being alive in Christ. If you are born again and are worhsiping with others who are born again, whether a person believes in a pre-tribulation rapture, post-tribulation, or amillennialism is irrelevant. We are one in Christ, united by the same Spirit sharing access to the same Father. The thing you need to be know is that the church where you are honors the Lord Jesus above all and places His word at the center of church life. The identity of Jesus and the Trinity and the reliability of His word are all important. He is the one around Whom we rally. Doctrines fall into place as we study the Bible. We have to place Bible study as a central value in our lives, and it's always necessary to pray that God will teach us with His Spirit as we study. Ask Jesus to teach you the truth and to guide you to the place where He knows you need to be. When we are born again, we become part of Christ's body. Part of our responsibility is to exercise our spiritual gifts within the body. We can't do that fully by trying to worship alone at home. God is faithful; He will show you where to "be". Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 833 Registered: 9-2006  |
Great bunch of answers. I have been the same old thing pretty much in my beliefs for 36 years and I don't think you will find one that you will agree with 100%. My take, I go with the attitude that I am going for Jesus sake, to serve him whatever way comes my way by serving and fellowshipping the body of Christ. but Jesus is the one when I go out that door that I am going all out for, like they said, there are many Christian churches out there with the core beliefs right. If they believe in tithing so what? I doubt you will find a Christian church who will demand an accounting of your finances nor insist that you tithe, least I have never attended such a place, if I did and they did demand to know what I made I would take off like a shot. Anyhow I wish you the best Jim, and I hope you find what you are looking for the first time around but if you don't, don't get discouraged, the Lord knows your heart. Just please don't give up and get reclusive, been there, done that. One thing I have come to believe is that the Lord takes former Adventist and plants them in many churches. I have no authority on this, it is just something I have come to believe, I can't put my finger on exactly why I believe this. It just came to me one day that this is happening. River | ||
| Sara Registered user Username: Sara Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2007 |
River, Thats an interesting observation. I think He puts us in different churches, cuz if formers all went to the same chruch/denomination, we would be feeding the tendency to find and focus on the perfect church, instead of the focus being on our perfect Savior. We would switch the object of our spiritual adultry, so to speak. Sara | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3740 Registered: 3-2004  |
God will direct you to the church where he wants you. He has done that for me and because He did that for me, I know He will do it for you. After I had been at my church for more than a year I met a former SDA and her husband and have not seen them since. God arranged it, so I would know one was there. But, It does not matter because I have met so many Christian people and gotten involved in the various activities of the church. It is wonderful, AWESOME, how God has cared for me. Diana | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 850 Registered: 10-2002  |
Very good point, Sara & River!! | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 35 Registered: 5-2007 |
RE: Are the sermons based on preaching the Bible instead of "positive thinking" or psychology, etc.? Are the people actually involved in small groups, Bible study, etc.? Is there actual joy in the Spirit? Colleen, I did not understand the syntax here. Are you saying avoid positive thinking and look for teaching the Bible , or visa versa? Leigh Anne: I am looking at a Assembly of God church. It is Pentecostal, lively , friendly and amazingly organized. That impresses me. I have been to Baptist. Like being in a SDA church almost. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6008 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jim, sermons based on "positive thinking" or "blessings as a result of obedience" or psychology are not going to feed your soul and give you power for living. Sermons based on the Bible will open up the word of God and give you true spiritual food. Colleen | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 38 Registered: 5-2007 |
Colleen, Thank you for the reply. I think I get your point, but I am not sure I agree (at least emotionally). I don't think that it can all be "positive" preaching. I assume you mean the way Joel Ostien preaches for example. But , having been bored to tears by droning dry sermons for years, I find it refreshing to see Chritian life as functionaly fullfilling, and lifting in a positive sermon. I think that does feed a soul. Idealy there must be a balance of content and style. Too much of any method is out of balance. I am not sure what you mean by the ones to avoid. Can you give an example? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6010 Registered: 12-2003 |
Well, actually, I guess I do mean the prosperity-type preaching can be problematic. I don't want to say anything general because each pastor is unique, but the bottom line is: church is where believers are supposed to be fed. Church services are not primarily supposed to be either for evangelism or for "soothing". They are about being built up in Christ. I would have thought Bible sermons would be boring, because in my past, whenever anyone "taught" the Bible, it was almost always boring, slightly confusing, and even a bit depressing. To my amazement I have found that when the Bible is taught/preached by a person who actually KNOWS Jesus and is dedicated to conveying ultimate, Scriptural truth to his congregation, the sermons are FAR from boring. Our sermons on Sunday are deep, challenging, and inspiring. I ALWAYS leave feeling spiritually, intellectually, and personally challenged and informed. I had no idea the Bible was so amazing. The difference from the past is that before, the Bible was used as a tool to support a predetermined doctrine. Now the Bible is a place of discovery. If Jesus and God's provision and will are not taught in church, it's pretty much a waste of time. Self-help can be had in many venues; Biblical insight is not found just anywhere. Colleen | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 449 Registered: 10-2001  |
Jim, The AOG church is pretty good, I know some great people in them, they are a bit too dogmatic for me and too much emphasis on salvation being evident by speaking in tongues. Not saying they all believe that, but I know a few individuals that do. You are right about tradition Baptists, very much like SDA, but each Baptist church is independentally governed and mine, is charismatic and believs in all spiritual gifts being for today. I also like the Church of God, they seem pretty balanced. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 577 Registered: 6-2006 |
Jim, I say shop around. One of my best friends is married to a Navy chaplain and they travel often. They belong to the congregational denomination, but in each town that they are stationed in, they try at least 4 or 5 different churches before they settle on one. They always look for a church where the gospel is preached (strictly Christ's death and resurrection) and they personally like a church that has a lot of group activites/bible studies. If there's a church that you really feel comfortable in that teaches the WHOLE Bible then try it out for a few weeks. I'll pray that the Holy Spirit will direct your steps. One thing that I've noticed from my friends here is that in their new churches they have peace from not having to "know" all the answers like they did at the SDA church. You just know that Jesus is the answer. Leigh Anne | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 847 Registered: 9-2006 |
Colleen, Your quote" but the bottom line is: church is where believers are supposed to be fed. That is right on but you left one important thing out. Church is where believers are supposed to be able to go to serve also. That is one place where I can go to offer my time, my talents, and just my presence. It is my belief that if we go to serve and with that in mind that God will make sure we are fed. Contrast that over against the attitude that you are going to church service and feel “well, I better be fed and fed right or I will go off and eat worms” and I think a Christian really shorts him/herself. Now I know you know that and I already know you serve, this is just a point I wanted to bring out. Myself, I never even go with the idea of getting fed but to serve God in whatever capacity he allows to come my way. Now if one don’t worship, study his Bible and pray all week he is on a starvation diet anyway and there is no way one can make catch-up on just Sunday by hearing a sermon and going home to starve again. If I go to church and have not been able to give out then I feel a little empty, so I have to remind myself that I was there and even that is giving of yourself. We have church on Wednesday night also at 7:00 pm and I go to bed early because I get up Seven days a week at 3:30 to 4:00 and I am so tired by the time It comes time to head for the church at 6:30 pm, sometimes I really would just like to eat my supper and go to bed, but I say no, I WILL go to serve. Invariably I make it o.k. and I always feel better than if I’d staid home. We are basically selfish in nature but this can be overcome by purposely beginning to look for ways to serve. The Catholics Mother Teresa was a fine example, I have no idea what her theology was or her motives but I like to think she just loved to serve and she had a rare servant’s heart. I believe she developed a servant’s heart by looking for ways to serve. And of course Jesus was the greatest example and it was taught by example of the foot washing. Now I realize I have taken two extremes here. Its just food for thought that’s all. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6011 Registered: 12-2003 |
Great point, River. That's really the reason we need to belong to a church body. I really should have worded my sentence differently. I was actually trying to say that church is not primarily for evangelism. IOW, if church is about being attractive primarily to unbelievers or about hearing "self-help" or positive thinking-type sermons, then everyone goes away still hungry--even the unbelievers! For example, while Richard has been cleaning out the office this week while his computer is mortally ill, he found an old VHS tape (can't remember where we got it) of Henri Nouwen speaking at the Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove, when Robert Schuller was pastor. Henri's sermon was very wonderful in many ways, but it became obvious that his emphasis that "you are God's child" and greatly beloved, while true of those who are God's children, completely missed any mention of how to BECOME God's child. I was left with the same old feeling I used to have in church--that something was missing. Now I understand that what was missing was actually the gospel! How on earth DOES one access that love and affirmation from God if one doesn't know Jesus and recognize He died for you? When the gospel is left out, all the kind, reassuring words are to no avail. People need to know Jesus, and they need to hear the gospel preached. So that's what I meant, and thank you, River, for pointing out what I omitted! Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 849 Registered: 9-2006 |
Wasn't Norman Vincent Peale some kind of a minister at some time, I can't remember. There was Robert Schuller, and now Joel Olstien and then there was the prosperity preachers, my how the years have flown, I have seen many come and gone and I believe God guided me through all that maze of teachings and movements, I would read the word and say "well he just quoted that scripture but that doesn't quite fit" and I would store it away in the old memory banks and work it out for my own self. I am not speaking out against these people but I like for my Pastor to preach from the word using scripture and he does that plus he talks to the lost. He feeds the Christian and tells the lost how to become Christian. Just IMHO. When the gospel is left out people suffer I think. I am glad you said that Colleen because it is the gospel that feeds my soul, here on the forum, thru Bible study, prayer and church. River | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 117 Registered: 8-2005 |
Jim, I can relate to your question about how to find a church after leaving Adventism. I had the same concerns - not so much about tithing, etc., but where to go to meet with Jesus and other believers. My wife and I had met with the local Messianic Jewish congregation several times, but while we loved the spirit of worship in the singing (it goes on and on and on) and the preaching (the Rabbi is definately filled with God's Spirit), we did not care for other aspects of their worship. We decided to visit a large PCA church in our area and attended the only class in the church where members in the class contribute to the study (all other classes are lecture oriented). That was eight months ago and we are still there. My wife had some serious medical issues come up last year and this group of people ministered to us during this time in such an unbelievable way! It was not only providing meals, it was the spirit of concern and the display of Christian grace that has left us in awe of His Grace! Now that my wife is doing better and is back to living a normal life, we see that God placed us at this church because it was were we needed to be. Do we agree with the idea of 'Sunday is the Christain Sabbath'? No. Do we believe in infant baptism? No (although I think it is a beautiful picture of God's electing grace!). I may never find a church that is 100% exactly as I believe. That is OK. If everyone beieved the same about every little issue what would be left to learn? Go to a place where Jesus Christ is preached and the Gospel is proclaimed with power! All the rest is secondary. God Bless you in your search! ISO |
