| Author | Message | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2007 |
I just wanted to share where I stand regarding Ellen G. White: I believe she was a sincere Christian who truly loved and wanted to serve the Lord and did not intend to mislead people, but she was so mentally ill she was not able to distinguish reality from fiction. I agree with what a cousin of EGW's said back in the 1840's when EGW got started that EGWs "visions" were neither from God or Satan but merely reveries on things she was interested in. I also believe her "visions" were caused by her medical problems and she may have been manipulated by stronger personalities around her for reasons that I will leave to God and God alone to judge. Because she did have a sincere heart and did not intend to mislead anyone but her illness got the best of her, I do believe EGW probably is in heaven as well. Just my thoughts. I am not and never have been angry at EGW. I have nothing but compassion for her as I truly believe she couldn't help it and was manipulated by others around her for whatever reasons. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5860 Registered: 12-2003  |
I understand your stance, Reb...when one looks closely at her writings, however, including her testimonis and later manuspcripts and letters, it become apparent that she functioned without being bound by what others did to or with her. Early on, I believe, she was a conventient tool for the purposes of the founders, especially her husband James, but after he died, she discovered her own power. She wrote against some of the more well-known early Adventist leaders and ruined the reputations of several (Ballanger, Kellogg, etc.). The theology of Adventism is too subtle, too interlocking, to interdependent to be merely the product of a seizure disorder or temporal lobe epilespsy—although she may very well have had that problem. Adventism is clever and complete; further, mental illness does not cause people to claim "I was shown" when using copied material. It's been very interesting for me to be around a signficant group of developmentally disabled adults at Trinity including one bright former engineer who is permanently brain damaged from a near-fatal mugging several years ago. These people have all manner of cognitive, emotional, and physical problems, but their love for Jesus is palpable and real. I've come to the conclusion that this "mortal tent" does not cause us to be evil or destructive. Yes, we fight temptation in the flesh, but even in cases of brain damage, our spirits can either be alive in Jesus or dead in sin. Being saved, knowing Jesus, being one with Him--these things are not limited by our physical limitations and damage. Brain damage alone cannot explain the calculated warnings from Ellen that claimed her words would live after her and speak to people as long as time lasted (SM I, P 55) or the clear statements that those who rejected William Miller's date-setting were lost (contrary to what the Bible says about date-setting). No, she was not innocent. She WAS damaged and used and manipulated, I believe—especially in the first years of her career—but she grew into an awareness of her own power. Colleen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2007 |
You make some good points, Colleen. I do believe, though, that EGW was somewhat insane but she was also very bright and clever. I guess God only knows her heart and what happened to her. Power is intoxicating. And yes, she did seem to go even harder at it after her main manipulator(her husband James) died. I have read about Ballenger and it was pretty cruel the way EGW treated him. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1800 Registered: 10-2004  |
Hi Reb, Welcome to the forum! I must say that I strongly disagree with your first post on this thread, however, and I think that if you were to look closely at all the evidence and facts, you might reconsider your stance. First of all, it doesn't matter if EGW was mentally ill. She believed in and taught a false gospel--NOT the true saving Gospel. A false gospel cannot get anyone to heaven--not even a mentally ill person. EGW not only rejected and refused to accept the true Gospel, she wrote many statements outright "quoting" the true Gospel preached by Christian pastors and ridiculed and condemned the true Gospel. A person cannot be saved by trusting in a false gospel and rejecting the true Gospel! Mentally ill Christians believe in the true Gospel and preach the true Gospel--they don't believe in and preach (supposedly with God's authority) a false gospel of salvation by works and a false Jesus, as EGW did. God's Word says the following:
The Bible also says in 1 John that if a person does not love Christians, then that person is not a Christian. EGW proclaimed her hatred for Christians all throughout her writings, as well as her disdain for the poor, etc. Here is a webpage that I put together with some of her supposedly "inspired" quotes that show her bigotry, racism, etc. If you look at the evidence, including her own writings, it is clear that whatever mental problems she may have had, she was coherent and intelligent enough to know what she was doing. If you look at all of the evidence, including her scheming and scams that she perpetrated on people, and some of the things she wrote, it is clear that she knew she was misleading people and that, at the very least, she was certainly responsible for her fraudulent "ministry." We can't give her a pass by saying she was "manipulated"--the truth is that she manipulated and controlled many people herself--including the SDA leaders--and was one of the most cultic cult leaders ever. If you look at her writings, she tried to control and manipulate every detail of her followers' lives. She was a very evil woman, whether she was mentally ill or not. There is so much evidence that she was involved in the occult and that her religion was not Christianity at all but in reality it was the same religion as Freemasonry (which is actually satanism). (See this thread for some more info.) She even directly exalted Satan over and over again in her writings--a Christian would not do that, mentally ill or not! EGW even had the same "guide" (a strictly occultic term--not biblical) appear to her for decades, who told her what to do and what to write. This "angel" was a fallen angel--a demon. There is no doubt that EGW was a false prophet. And God's Word does not speak "compassionately" of false prophets:
God says that He is "against" Ellen White, that she is "eternally condemned," and that she is being kept "under punishment for the day of judgment." Furthermore, Jesus tells us that we not only can, but will know who the "false prophets"/"ravenous wolves"/"bad trees" are. And He says that "a good tree cannot produce bad fruit." Clearly, EGW was not a Christian. Frankly, I don't understand the motive or "need" of many former Adventists to be "compassionate" towards EGW, but not towards other false prophets such as Joseph Smith or Mary Baker Eddy (whom most of us, I assume, would admit were clearly not Christians). Please understand that none of this is said out of angry bitterness or anything like that--but out of a conviction of what the truth of the matter is. And I also believe that it is important to understand the true reality and demonic nature of EGW and Adventism--we need to know what we're dealing with, and we must recognize that EGW was a false prophet in every sense of the word, in order to be completely free of her hold. "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places." (Ephesians 6:12 NASB.) Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on May 21, 2007) | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 18 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hmmmmmmmm. Interesting. I just thought she was merely whacko. Maybe it is worse than that. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5864 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, Reb...it is worse than that. I know how volatile this subject can be; I know how angry people get over the subject of Ellen being swayed by spiritual powers instead of merely being a victim of trauma and manipulation. (Frankly, no adult is manipulated against his/her will, anyway. We have to assent to the manipulation.) As I've said before, the idea that we have been involved in an organization founded on deception and lies—which never come from God but always come from Satan—should not make any of us afraid or angry. We are born into the domain of darkness (Col 1:13); we are born subject to the powers of evil. God has to sovereignly intervene in our lives in order for us to escape that domain of darkness. It is God Himself who tranfers us to the kingdom of His beloved Son (Col 1:13). It is an amazingly freeing thing to actually acknowledge the truth about our heritage. Unless we acknowledge it, it always has a certain hold on us. Only when we surrender it all to Jesus can we be free--free from the emotional pull, free from the bitterness, free from the ongoing "open wound", free from the subtle deception. In Jesus, we are free indeed. He redeems everything we submit to Him...and He wastes nothing! But in order for us to submit our "stuff" to Him, we have to actually know it's there to submit. He is faithful! Jeremy's quotes are accurate, and his conclusions are valid. But it is nothing we need to fear. Jesus has overcome the world and has already disarmed the rulers and authorities of the spiritual realm. Colleen | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 444 Registered: 10-2001  |
I'd go as far as to say she was demon possessed. A wolf in sheeps clothing. | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 813 Registered: 10-2002  |
Jeremy, you brought up the very interesting point about why we see EGW as different than Joseph Smith, etc. (btw, thanks for your webpage of quote!) About the first comment you'd made about some formers' need to see her compassionately, I kind of understand it. The way I've come to see it is that we each need to go through a stage of forgiveness that cleanses our own souls of bitterness, unforgiveness and judgment (things that hinder the Spirit's ability to heal us inside). Someone said, "To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you." That said, during that stage we of course don't know all the facts (and even later after we've learned more, there is still so much we don't know). So during the forgiveness stage we may be more than a little mistaken, but that is all right because the main concern is not with vindicating or condemning EGW, but with the healing of our own hearts by offering God's grace to those who have sinned against us (like Jesus mysteriously said in the Lord's prayer -- our ability to receive forgiveness in our hearts is contingent on our willingness to release others in forgiveness whether we think they deserve it or not). There are any number of theories explaining the deception Ellen White -- how much she was involved in it, how earnest she was, how insane she was, or even how possessed she was. Defenses can be made for every theory. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if she vacillitated between all of these different personas, but truly I've stopped caring!  There is likely truth in all of the theories about her (save for "the Spirit of prophecy" one!). Coming to see more and more of the deception -- even that she knowingly had a hand in or participated in -- should indeed cause us to speak more frankly about the nature of her "prophecy". However, it should also cause us to see her through God's eyes as a human for whom Christ died, but who for one reason or another ended up on the enemy's side. Christ commanded us to love our enemies, so we must offer her personal forgiveness. BUT...! She is dead, and while refraining from judging "her", the matter of her "testimony" must be utterly exposed for what it is. No holds barred. The truth must come out. There are lives at stake. Whether or not she was insane, deceived, a deceiver or earnest, the 'spirit' of her testimonies is the same. The net result of her prophetic ministry is the same no matter what theory is given to explain her. False prophet indeed. I haven't studied Joseph Smith, Mary Bakker Eddy, etc. However, maybe in the past I wouldn't have offered their souls the same grace that I would offer Ellen White's soul. That's okay, I know now. The difference I realize is that when thinking of Joseph Smith (in particular), it was completely obvious that he was in contact with another spirit. With Ellen White, even after discovering she was not a prophet of God, the spirit behind her ministry was not immediately evident. This I partly attribute to the common focus on her. There is a way in speaking about her that we can end up focusing on her instead of the spirit behind her ministry. It's hard to describe the difference, but I can kind of see it now that I think about it. Focusing on the spirit behind her ministry kind of clears up the matter, no matter which theory is taken about her herself and her soul. For me, kind of a clear realization in the matter came when I ended up writing three points about her ministry that put things in Biblical perspective for me: 1) Her message did not know the gospel of God's grace, but knew new "truths" 2) Her message condemned those who rejected the new "truths" and clung instead to the Gospel 3) She had confirmations/origins of these "truths" and condemnations from visions, "angels" or "guides" I realized simply that her ministry was anti-gospel. It was gospel-hostile. It could not be from the Holy Spirit, whose ministry is to testify of Christ and the Gospel -- what we freely have in Him (1 Cor. 2:12). The spirit in her ministry was an anti-Gospel spirit, an anti-Christian spirit, an anti-Christ spirit that portrayed Him differently than He really is and led people away from the real Christ to her "Christ". The best way to regard "her" in light of this is to forgive her herself but cease not speaking of the truth of the spirit behind her ministry. Forgiveness never means pretending like there was no sin or wound in the first place! Rather, forgiveness (God's agape love) sees the sin and wound even clearer than the person who tries to forgive by denying it. Perhaps the best attitude to have about EGW herself is simply, "May God have mercy on her soul!" Anyway, that's just my jumbled thoughts. Right on, everybody. And Jeremy, thank you as always for all your revealing research about EGW. (Message edited by agapetos on May 22, 2007) | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 23 Registered: 5-2007 |
Great post, Agapetos. Yes, my "compassionate" view about EGW at this stage in my recovery from Adventism is helping me heal. I was somewhat traumatised by Adventism but I'm also quite tough and resilient. A lot of good points have been made on this thread. I definetly agree that EGW's teachings were anti-Gospel. I hate her false doctrines but I don't hate her. As for EGW herself I think it's best to just let God judge her, only He really knows anyone's heart. I do believe EGW was seriously mentally ill but some good points were also made about whether her mental illness was completely responsible for all of her outlandish ideas. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 770 Registered: 9-2006  |
Well what is this thing called forgiveness or it’s opposite anyhow? If we hold un-forgiveness in our hearts toward the living then, what is this thing we hold in our hearts? How do we forgive and what does it consist of? Is it so that we can have a warm fuzzy feeling toward the person? Is it what the world considers as forgiveness “Forgive and forget” have you ever heard that statement made? “Forgive and forget I always say” yeah and I can tell you that person knows absolutely nothing about what they are talking about IMHO. As in the case of sexual offense, something that has effected you your whole life long or even Adventism. How do we forgive something that has effected so much? Or it may even be something that has effected one so little. He/she ignored me, hurt my feelings with words, hit my new car at Safeway, the Pastor didn’t even shake my hand! What did Jesus mean when he said Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; Matthew 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? What did he mean by Matthew 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses? Now the world might think “Hey there now Jesus, those are hard statements you made!” furthermore many Christians may think the same thing! But if you hold hardness and un-forgiveness in your heart just what do you desire that God do with that person? It is said James 3:9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. James 3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Now you may say that it is not between you and God but between you and them, but no, it is between you and God so what would you have him do with them? Would you really have God send them to hell for eternity and everlasting punishment and torment along with the devil and his angles? Now you may say “Oh no brother I would not wish that!” but that is exactly what you are saying with un-forgiveness. You are saying “Yes God, forgive me so that I may obtain eternal life, but don’t for forgive them so that they may NOT obtain eternal life but rather eternal damnation”. It’s just me and my wife, my son and his wife, us four and no more. That the attitude? Now some might say “Well brother, un-forgiveness doesn’t carry that kind of weight. You better believe it does! After I get through here some may not even call me your brother but that’s O.K. too. Jesus didn’t hang there in his misery and suffering after being beat, slapped, spit on, dragged up a hill and nailed to a cross like a slab of beef and end up saying “Father forgive them for they know not what they do” for a warm comfy feeling nor without good reason, he knew the consequences of un-forgiveness. If he hadn’t had forgiveness would we have had the chance of a snowball? I doubt it. Is giving forgiveness so that we can have a comfy feeling inside each time we remember what that person did to us? I don’t think so! What did Jesus mean by this scripture John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. Did this have something to do with forgiveness? What are the consequences of NOT forgiving? Did God really mean Matthew 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses? Did he really mean for us to forgive so that he could feel good about forgiving us? I doubt it. What are the real consequences of us retaining un-forgiveness toward someone? Once we realize what forgiveness is and what it is not it becomes much easier to exclaim right along with Jesus “Oh father, forgive them for they know not what they do!” and then we can enter in earnest prayer for that persons very soul. Now realize that I am talking about live body’s here and not a person whose been dead for a hundred years and whatever they offended in is a done deal. I just can’t see much sense in beating a dead horse, he is just not going to give you a ride even if you throw the finest saddle on him and dig him with silver spurs. It just don’t seem sensible to feel hard at him because he ain’t gonna run no more, all he is going to do is lay there drawing fly’s. Just don’t let the Lord catch you beating your live donkey, the lord might just decide to speak to you through him. See there Colleen, I used polite words. You know friends and I do mean friends, I am saying this from as good a heart as I the Lord will give me. We need to realize and keep the realization of what forgiveness is and what it is not, the eternal consequences it carries with it. Recently I talked with a person who had had sexual pervasive acts done to him while he was a child and the person could not seem to find forgiveness. I said to him “would you really wish that the offender spend eternity in hell for his offense against you, is that what you want? He said “Yes that is what he wanted!” it made my heart break. I didn’t go to God for the offender; I went to God for the offended. Oh God, give us the ability to see into eternity just a little bit! Help us to have understanding. Please don’t take this as to the rightness or wrongness of discussion of false Bible teachings, false religion, or rebuking such teachings, they should be rebuked and denied entry. It has nothing to do with that. As to holding un-forgiveness, anger or hard feelings toward a dead person, I just honestly don’t know off hand what to do with that, if it does cause damage it may be to our own selves as well as others who are alive. It may be that it amounts to an emotional hurtle we have to get through as I think Ramone might have indicated. Emotions do not necessarily indicate un-forgiveness or forgiveness for that matter, we are an emotional people and those emotions may need healing. I am just about the biggest emotional bag of bones you will meet anywhere. When I go to church and I really get thinking about Jesus my eyes leak like a sieve. There will not be a wet eye in the house and I’m sitting back there swatting tears like I’m being attacked by skeeters. I don’t pray that God will take it away because it may involve taking his nearness away for the cure, I just have to sit close to a box of napkins or get my sleeve wet. I refuse to be ashamed of my love for Jesus. We go through emotions at times like changing pants and we need to realize the difference between emotional upheaval and forgiveness and what that entails. Life happens. River | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1801 Registered: 10-2004 |
Ramone, thanks for your post. I have a few questions to ask you. 1. It seems that you didn't really answer what the difference is between the assessment of EGW and the assessment of Joseph Smith, Mary Baker Eddy, etc. Are you saying that you do have the same view of all of them now? That you have a "compassionate" view towards all of them? Or that there's a difference? 2. You said: "Perhaps the best attitude to have about EGW herself is simply, 'May God have mercy on her soul!'" Do you have that attitude toward Joseph Smith? How can we have that attitude when there is no mercy apart from Jesus Christ? That would be denigrating the sacrifice of Jesus! 3. What about Paul's attitude toward those who would dare to preach a false gospel? "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!" (Galatians 1:8-9 NIV.) Or as the Cotton Patch Version puts it, "To hell with him!" And as the footnote says, "The Greek is even stronger!" How do you reconcile this with what you said above? 4. What does it mean if we are to see her through God's eyes? Did you read all of the Scripture passages I posted in my previous post, about false prophets? Do those passages not show what "God's heart" is toward false prophets? 5. Here is what Paul, being filled with the Holy Spirit, said directly to a false prophet:
So what kind of attitude did Paul have towards that false prophet? Was it a "compassionate" attitude? Would we be comfortable saying the same thing to EGW? I sure hope so! Regarding the healing process: I believe that part of the healing process is acknowledging the truth about Ellen. I totally agree with what Colleen said: "It is an amazingly freeing thing to actually acknowledge the truth about our heritage. Unless we acknowledge it, it always has a certain hold on us." Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5870 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ramone and River, really good insights about forgiveness. I've shared before my favorite definition of forgiveness: Forgiveness does not mean to "forgive and forget" because we must remember what happened in order to protect ourselves. What it does mean is giving up our "right" to get even. Jesus asks us to leave that job to Him. If we carry it, it will kill us. Gary Inrig made some extremely good points about forgiving an unrepentant person in his sermon series which is now available in his book, "Forgiveness" published by Discovery House Publishers (available on Amazon.com). He points out that we cannot actually forgive a person with whom we cannot communicate, nor can we actually offer forgiveness to a person who is unrepentant. For one thing, a living but unrepentant person does not WANT our forgiveness. In these circumstances, Jesus' example on the cross (as you mentioned above, River) shows us how to proceed. The soldiers who crucified Him were not wanting forgiveness. Jesus did NOT forgive them. He did not even try to offer them forgiveness. They were unrepentant and unresponsive to forgiveness. What Jesus did was to give them over to His Father. He had to release His own wounding to God, giving up any temptation to defend himself and hurt his persecutors. He couldn't forgive them nor change their hearts, so He gave that responsibility to His Father. Jesus the man could not forgive them because they would not accept His forgiveness. The Father alone could deal with them. Jesus had to give up, at that point, any knowledge of or interest in those men's punishment or repentance. He had to leave them with God. By giving up His right to get even, He was trusting God to be eternally just and also merciful. He could know that justice would be served, no matter the outcome. He could trust God without being consumed by desire for revenge or the continual anger of being made a victim. Forgiveness does not mean, as River and Ramone have said, that we forget the abuse. It means, however, that we entrust that abuse and that unrepentant perpetrator to God, giving up our personal desire to mete out justice. Forgiveness, ultimately, is completely an act of trust in the Lord Jesus. It is submitting our deepest wounds to Him, letting go of our need to exact restitution or resolution. It means letting Jesus be all we need and letting go of our attachments to the person(s) who hurt us. All this is why it's important to understand the spirit behind Ellen. Unless we face the reality of evil in our lives (and this same evil underlies all abuse: sexual, physical, emotional, etc.), we cannot give it to Jesus. As long as we make excuses for it, we are still holding it close to our hearts. The truth sets us free. Jesus is always the Source of truth, and He is always faithful. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 771 Registered: 9-2006 |
Good words Colleen, sometimes our healing and release comes from just "letting go and letting God". If we trust him enough to give him our bitter feelings toward whatever or whoever I honestly believe he will give us his peace in return. I think if we struggle with bitterness then we probably aren't trusting him to handle it, there are many things that come into our lives to plague us and steal our peace if we permit them. I know some things are hard to let go but impossible? Probably not. when the devil tries to put in on us again we need to say no, "I have given that to the Lord" Just maybe for some that includes E.G.W. I just don't have the experience with that to say and I don't pretend to advise, these are just suggestions and if it's immaterial, fine. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5877 Registered: 12-2003 |
You're right, River. At the same time I believe we have to give our bitterness re: Ellen to God, I also believe we must not be afraid to call her what she was: a false prophet. Many of us have been criticized over the years for identifying her as a false prophet and/or as having been inspired by evil. The fact is, we must identify the reality of her. Identifying the truth about her does not mean, however, that we necessarily are angry or bitter--nor does it give us a right to hold onto bitterness. The anger is a natural part of the separation process; as with any kind of abuse, it's necessary to feel the anger in order to fully acknowledge the truth of what is wrong. Once recognized, however, one can move away from the offender and allow God to heal the deep wound. I know that my own awareness of the heretical teachings of Ellen and hence the church is still coming into focus. This realization, however, is not triggering anger—I believe the reason is that I recoginzed many years ago that Ellen's inspiration came from evil, and with our family, I asked God to remove the spirit of Adventism from my heart and replace it with His Spirit. The new levels of discovery lend clarity and conviction to my experience and understanding—but praise God, they don't stir up bitterness. I definitely did pass through an angry phase, though, when we were transitioning. I believe we all do to some degree—some more intensely than others. It's actually a gift from God to be able to recognize the true nature of Adventism and feel offense at the misrepresentation of Jesus, the gospel, the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit, etc. etc. That recongition gives us the impetus to act on what we've discovered instead of becoming flattened by depression, disbelief, or overwhelm. But God heals our hearts. Truth is His gift. We can trust Him to lead us deeper into Himself and to see our past more clearly—and to begin to recognize that He has walked with us through this whole journey of disillusionment and renewal. He is faithful! And River, your spiritual insight is helpful and clarifying. Thank you for writing what you think. Colleen | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 699 Registered: 7-2004  |
I am not responding to any one person or one statement, but rather to a practice that I have engaged in as often as anyone. So please know that I mean no offense to anyone with my observations. I think we should rejoice anytime a person has rejected the authority of Ellen White and chosen to accept only the truth of Scripture. Regardless of the label that they apply to her prophecies that leads them to that conclusion. Realizing that she is not a prophet of God should be sufficient cause for joy. It is hard for some people to step from "not a prophet of God" to "was a false prophet", I know that some people I talk with feel like that is judging her motives or her salvation. Let's be careful with those who don't use the same strong language that we use and avoid any suggestion that they are "incomplete" formers. Instead let us rejoice with them in the truth that they are discovering. | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 395 Registered: 12-2004 |
Rick, I appreciate your well chosen words. Sometimes labeling, and name calling lessens the effectiveness of our witness. I think the acknowledgment and recognition that Ellen White was not a prophet is suffice to let people know what we think of her ministry. I think it will eventually become apparent to those who take their study of the Bible seriously exactly what Ellen White was. | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 52 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thanks, Rick and Randy. I just don't feel comfortable at this point using "strong" language regarding EGW. I realize she is NOT a prophet, NOT inspired. I still believe that EGW was so floridly psychotic and delusional she just couldn't distinguish truth from error. She taught a false Gospel and counterdicted the Bible but it was insanity that drove her to it. That's just where I am at right now. Anyway, I just praise God that I no longer believe in EGW and Adventism | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 821 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hi all, I've been meaning to respond here, but time has been short, and I've distractingly made a few other comments here or there, saving this one for when I've got time for it. Hope to return to it soon. Blessings & love in Jesus, Ramone | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3660 Registered: 3-2004  |
Here is my stand on EGW. I believe she is a false prophet. I do not read her books and only comments that people put on here and on CARM from her writings. As for anything else about her, I leave that to God. When in discussion about her, I just say, it is my choice not to believe her and that is between me and God. How you think of her is between you and God. Diana | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 58 Registered: 5-2007 |
I totally agree, Diana. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1081 Registered: 4-2000  |
One thing is very certain, Ellen White is either a false prophet or a true prophet. There is no "in between" or "halfway" type of prophet. There never has been such a watered-down designation in all of redemptive history for a mouthpiece of God. Jesus specifically warned us about false prophets in the last days. Let's not neglect calling her blasphemy against God by its right name. We do have to make a solid judgment as to who speaks for God and who doesn't. This was the clear intent of Jesus' warnings. EGW herself stated that her ministry is either from God or from the Devil. She allowed no middle ground. She never claimed to be a half-baked messenger or prophetess. Likewise, there is not such a person who is only halfway or partially regenerated by the Holy Spirit. We are either Christ-followers or we are not. As Christians, Jesus is the Lord of our entire life--not exempting those areas that we may still struggle with. Dennis Fischer |
