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Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra
Post Number: 443 Registered: 10-2001
| Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 7:43 pm: | |
Any SDA mom stories? Mine came in for the weekend. We actually got along quite well. She came to church, the sermon was on hell ( a first in the 4 years I've been there) Then my son was baptised at the evening service and it was on the 144,000 of Rev. Pastor mentioned that the SDA's and JW believe they are the 144,000. Thought there was going to be trouble when my mom said outloud "No we don't, we do not believe that." I thought they did, but what do I know. He also talked quite a bit about the Holy Spirit and tongues and the gifts not ceasing. My church is very biblically charismatic, hardly ever do you hear anyone speak in tongues, if so, there better be an interpretation. Anywho, I'm sure God knows what He is doing. Surely some seeds were sown. It was a good weekend. God is Good. |
River Registered user Username: River
Post Number: 761 Registered: 9-2006
| Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 8:09 pm: | |
Yes, I clean forgot again, happy mothers day to all you mothers out there. I will repost a little here for your amusement, I posted this earlier under "Don't mess with the Decalogue" to lighten it up a bit but it had no effect. My Pastor went to the flower shop to get some flowers for mother's day and he was slogging up and down the isles looking lost so the girl said "What can I do for you? He said he was looking for flowers, the girl said "We have some impatience, and he said no thanks, he already had plenty of that, he just needed some flowers" he wasn't aware that there were flowers called impatience, so this morning at church he said he brought along a load of impatience for all the mother's. It saved my bacon because I forgot to get my wife anything, I took them home to my wife who wasn't there and kissed her and presented them to her. I didn't tell her I didn't even have to leave my seat! I wasn't going to take them and all of a sudden a light came on and I skedadled out there and picked them up on the way out. The Lord provides. River Psssst! If she walks in here, I will multi task and bring up a spreadsheet. So I brought my wife some impatience but I didn't tell her what they were, she probably thought they were for-get-me-nots. I hope this lightens you day. |
Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl
Post Number: 383 Registered: 6-2005
| Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 9:03 pm: | |
Sabra, There you go, ruining one more of my God boxes. You must still be at the Baptist Church I visited. Don't they know that the "Baptist God Box" requires Hell fire more than once every four years, and the only gifts that haven't ceased are the ones you put in the offering basket..... Amazing God just refuses to stay in the boxes we create. And yeah, I thought SDA's thought they were the 144,000. Thought being vegetarian was a requirement, in order to be translated with that group. Great news about your son being baptized into the body of Christ. River, you will be living in that stall with the horse in your picture, if your wife does find out. My church had all the mothers stand, and then asked everyone nearby those mothers who were standing to gather around and pray for them. It was great. My son was off on class trip, but I still had people in the congregation gather around and pray for me. I was very touched. It beat the heck out of being handed a rose. Then, they prayed for those who had lost their mothers, and prayed for healing for those who were infertile. I highly recommend that for your churches next year, the whole thing was moving. God's presence was strong. I wish my mother could have been there. Lori |
Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 3640 Registered: 3-2004
| Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 9:07 pm: | |
I spent mother's day with my sister, her children and her daughter's MIL. Her SIL cooked the chicken on the barbeque. It was nice. My son called me and told me there is something coming for me. So, my day was good. HAPPY MOTHERS DAY TO ALL YOU MOTHERS. God is so good and so very awesome in providing us with a good mother. Diana |
Toria Registered user Username: Toria
Post Number: 123 Registered: 2-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 5:01 am: | |
I had a quite mother's day. A visit from my son and his family. Had not seen the grandkids for a few weeks. Big hugs and sticky kisses all around. My heart overflowed. In the afternoon my husband and I placed flowers on my mom's grave. It is the first time they were not handed to her. I was thinking it would be difficult, but it was ok. I was filled with memories. Moments I had forgotten. Once, on my 30th. birthday, I brought her roses with a card that said "in memory of a day we spent together 30 years ago". She said it was a day she was not likely to forget....I weighed 13 pounds. Memories, I think, are a balm for the soul. All in all, it was a really good day. Blessings to all Toria |
Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos
Post Number: 800 Registered: 10-2002
| Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 5:15 am: | |
It was fun surprising my wife with a card and flowers on mother's day. She had thought about my mom and her mom, but had not thought about herself as a mother for mother's day! Baby Timothy is 8 weeks old today. |
Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa
Post Number: 1572 Registered: 7-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 10:10 am: | |
My older son and some friends and I went kayaking. My younger son was not allowed to be with us by his father. It was warm and the first time I'd been out this year. I enjoyed the afternoon. A year ago today, my mother went in for pancreatic cancer surgery. A year later, she's still here and is doing better than the statistics. |
Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5830 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 11:25 am: | |
We had a great Mother's Day. Our FAF group had lunch together at our house, and the guys made the food and sat us women outside in the shade of a mulberry tree. One man brought his cappucino machine and gave us made-to-order lattes to sip while the lasagna baked. (If you live near a Costco, don't ever bother to make lasagna again. Theirs is the best we've eaten!) We finished with key lime pie or apple pie...yum! I do not take my relationship with my sons for granted, since I am their stepmother (for the past 18 years), and it always moves me when they affirm me as their mom. Both of them know me well and are thoughtful gift-givers. My older son gave me a John Piper book, "Future Grace", and my younger one gave me a new Hillsong CD of worship music. I took my mom to our church's Mother's' Day annual tea on Saturday, and then we watched a movie together that she'd been wanting to see. All-in-all, it was a great Mother's Day weekend. Colleen |
Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses
Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 8:18 pm: | |
Hi I had the usual split personality holiday. I was off, so I took the kids to church, (my husband still had to work, so it was just us). Mother's day at my parish (yes, i'm catholic) is very festive, we have a local custom of bringing flowers to decorate the little side chapel dedicated to Mary. The girls wear white dresses and we have a procession and crown Mary's image with roses and sing songs special for the day. Then all the mothers gather at the main altar for a special blessing. For me the custom of honoring Jesus's mother and then honoring all our mothers is an especially sweet and moving service. Then, we after we leave church, we skipped the reception and refreshments at our own church to drive out to a park to meet my SDA mom and her fellow church members who are having a mother's day picnic. Its mother's day, I can do it, so i'm telling myself. It was ok, it just seemed kind of grim is all. Dinner was pinto beans and fried potatos. A few side dishes, but evidently a lot of mom's friends are going gluten and dairy free, and a lot of the dinner conversation was about rice flour substitutes and how unhealthy the potatoes were but how can you have a potato fry without grease? I mostly sat there and ate a bit with the kids and listened. I brought mom a pot of flowers for her garden, but that was the only bit of flowers or Mother's day trappings in evidence. I know my mom has hopes of convincing my kids to join her church someday. I used to be somewhat defensive about that, especially when they were little. We lived in another town, and she'd take them for a week or two in the summer (always at VBS time of course). But lately, we go to things with my mom more often, but I don't really worry anymore. The picnic was GRIM. Why would anyone be attracted to that? Some new "prospects" were there and my mother and others were hovering attentively at their table. My mother just plainly said, 'sorry to leave you sitting here but I need to say hi to our prospects' (her words). A lot of what I remember as an Adventist teen was spending a lot of time at activities that were supposed to be 'fun' but all the energy went into presenting a certain appearance, rather than actually having fun. Its like everyone has to show off how strict their new diet is, or how diligently they are passing out books, or whatever. The spartan food makes me wonder what they are eating at home. I probably sound uncharitable but it just reminds me of Christmas growing up. My mom's church then did not decorate or even mention Christmas, except for maybe a potted poinsetta and one or two carols in the hymnal. Yet everyone went home to Christmas trees and presents. I know that the congregation is more liberal now, they do seem more open to doing more things, but then they seem to be just the same in so many important ways. Christ didn't intend for us to be so joyless! ARRGH! *goes off to rant offline a while* Peace and prayers |
Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5832 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 8:54 pm: | |
Oh yes, Marysroses...the pinto beans and potatoes. I'm actually a bit impressed that they had fried potatoes--I might have expected brown rice! It's interesting how the vegan diet seems to be spreading--also the gluten-free detail. It really takes work and time to get enough protein, etc. on a gluten-free vegan diet. I'm so thankful to be delivered from the grimness you describe... Colleen |
Leigh Registered user Username: Leigh
Post Number: 166 Registered: 2-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 5:15 am: | |
Welcome Marysroses! It is amazing how SDA's seem to ignore parts of the New Testament (Although for many years, I did, too!) - Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Just before we left Adventism I would hear things like "I really should be vegan," and from people who were vegan, veganism is all they could talk about. I would hear how being a vegan has effected their life, but I wouldn't hear how Christ has effected their life. It has become another form of idolatry. I just recently found out that I can't tolerate gluten. I read a study from either Johns Hopkins or Univ. of Maryland - I can't remember which- that says that probably 1 in about 130 people (especially those of nothern European descent) are gluten intolerant and many don't know it yet. I can't imagine trying adhere to a vegan diet AND trying to stay away from wheat/gluten. I was vegetarian off and on during my life and we used to order hamburgers without the burger. Now I have my hamburgers with the burger but without the bun! Like you Colleen, I'm so glad to be free of that grimness! 2 Cor. 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Leigh |
Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5836 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 4:51 pm: | |
Leigh, my MIL found out within this past year that she has Celiac's disease--an autoimmune gluten intolerance that destroys the villi where nutrients are absorbed in the small intestine. (The condition is reversible if one eliminates gluten.) She, however, IS vegan. So now her diet is extremely limited. She can't even eat grains prepared on equipment where wheat is processed or eat seasonings that might contain trace amounts of gluten. So, not only does she eat no meat or dairy, now she can't eat vegemeats even if she wanted to! It's a LOT of work to eat like that...She feels better, but I think she misses being able to eat things on occasion. I know she misses whole wheat bread... Sigh. The Health Message is supposed to be for making one more healthy. With conditions like severe gluten intolerance, meat would definitely improve things...but no, the pre-flood diet is best, no matter the circumstances. Sigh again. Colleen |
Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses
Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 6:19 pm: | |
Hi, I surely didn't mean to criticize those with real dietary limitations. Its just my impression that some at my mom's SDA church seem to be in a competition to see who can follow the most limited/extreme diet. I've definitely got the "I'm more holy because I'M VEGAN" vibe there from people. It reminds me of my experience with some American Buddhists - the vegetarians had an attitude of "look how much more compassionate we are than you meat eaters". The Lama reminded them that millions of insects die for every acre of wheat harvested, rendering their perceived superiority woefully shredded. It seems to me that food is one area of living where good, worthwhile things can turn into something distorted and harmful. Eating healthy, avoiding causing unnecessary suffering, fasting and abstaining to practice self denial aren't bad things. It just seems all to easy to lose any spiritual benefit from them to smugness and pride. Maybe why we are advised to wash our face and not tell anyone when we fast? That makes me wonder about using a 'health message' (vegetarian cooking classes, 5 day plans etc.) as a tool for recruiting converts. It now seems even more wrong headed than I used to think it was. MarysRoses |
Leigh Registered user Username: Leigh
Post Number: 168 Registered: 2-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 7:48 pm: | |
Hi Maryroses, I took no offense at what you said. What is ironic is that something that Adventists live on(vegemeat, gluten burgers, etc.) can cause at least 1 in 130 of them to have a much greater risk of cancer and other problems than the meat ever would. I have even heard of some in the SDA circles who are going to a raw food diet, vegan of course. Striving for that perfect pre-flood, even pre-fall diet! Sighing with you, Colleen. Leigh |
Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5840 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 9:23 pm: | |
Yes, I have other Adventist relatives who lean toward the raw vegan diet. I believe God gave mankind meat to eat for at least a couple of reasons. First, it helps people get nutritional levels of certain vitamins and trace minerals that would be harder to achieve with just a plant-based diet—not to mention a digestible form of complete protein. Second, eating meat establishes the order God gave at creation: man is different from and in charge of the animals. Veganism associated with New Age, Buddhism, etc, sees the animals as being equally deserving as humans. In fact, many people see humans as the enemy and animals as victims. When God created Adam, he gave him dominion over the animals because Adam and Eve alone were created in the image of God. That dominion was never intended to be cruel...man was to oversee, manage, and "husband" the animals (as in "animal husbandry")--and God confirmed the superiority of humanity over the animals by giving mankind animals to eat. Interestingly, the Genesis 9 account also states that, along with giving humans all creatures for food, He also placed self-protective fear into the animals so they wouldn't be easy to hunt and kill. Colleen |
Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 1792 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 1:33 pm: | |
Colleen, Adventism also teaches the same thing about how "wrong" it is to kill animals:
quote:"Is it not time that all should aim to dispense with flesh foods? How can those who are seeking to become pure, refined, and holy, that they may have the companionship of heavenly angels, continue to use as food anything that has so harmful an effect on soul and body? How can they take the life of God's creatures that they may consume the flesh as a luxury? Let them, rather, return to the wholesome and delicious food given to man in the beginning, and themselves practice, and teach their children to practice, mercy toward the dumb creatures that God has made and has placed under our dominion." (The Ministry of Healing, page 317, paragraph 2.) "Where plenty of good milk and fruit can be obtained there is rarely any excuse for eating animal food; it is not necessary to take the life of any of God's creatures to supply our ordinary needs." (Counsels on Diet and Foods, page 394, paragraph 2.) "Will the people who are preparing to become holy, pure, and refined, that they may be introduced into the society of heavenly angels, continue to take the life of God's creatures and subsist on their flesh and enjoy it as a luxury? From what the Lord has shown me, this order of things will be changed, and God's peculiar people will exercise temperance in all things." (Testimonies for the Church, Volume Two,page 63, paragraph 3.) "I have a large family which often numbers sixteen. In it there are men who work at the plow and who fell trees. These men have vigorous exercise, but not a particle of flesh of animals is placed upon our table. Meat has not been used by us since the Brighton camp-meeting (held in 1894). It was not my purpose to have it on my table at any time, but urgent pleas were made that such an one was unable to eat this or that, and that his stomach could take care of meat better than it could of anything else; then I was enticed to place it on my table. The use of cheese also began to creep in, because some liked cheese. But I soon controlled that. But when the selfishness of taking the lives of animals to gratify a perverted appetite, was presented to me by a Catholic woman, kneeling at my feet, I felt ashamed and distressed; I saw it in a new light, and I said, 'I will no longer patronize the butcher; I will not have the flesh of corpses on my table.' "I have felt urged by the Spirit of God to set before several the fact that their suffering ill health was caused by a disregard of the light given them upon health reform." (Testimony Studies on Diet and Foods, page 67, paragraphs 6-7.)
I was taught growing up that it was murder, and a breaking of the 6th commandment, to kill an animal. By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if gluten intolerance can be caused by the SDA diet. Leigh wrote: "Just before we left Adventism I would hear things like 'I really should be vegan,' and from people who were vegan, veganism is all they could talk about." So, let's see, in Adventism, the meat-eaters say, "I really should be vegetarian." The vegetarians say, "I really should be vegan." The vegans say, "I really should be a gluten-free vegan." And the gluten-free vegans say, "I really should be a raw gluten-free vegan." And the raw gluten-free vegans say, "I really should be a raw gluten-free fruitarian vegan." And the raw gluten-free fruitarian vegans say, "I am now ready for translation. I hope." Is that about right? It's really very sad when you think about it. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on May 17, 2007) |
Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5844 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 4:50 pm: | |
Wow, Jeremy, I remember reading most of those quotes, but I never noticed before the emphasis on the inappropriateness of taking an animals' life. She really was promoting vegetarianism partly from the same point of view as New Age or Buddhists do. It's a point of view that is completely contrary to the Bible. Now, I'm not criticizing vegetarianism. I know how hard it is to let that go after being trained to be one. But I do think it's important to understand the Biblical foundation and to decide this issue based on reasons other than sympathy only. And Jeremy, the idea that taking an animal's life is murder is amazing. But it's not surprising, really--and it's really not surprising in light of the fact that Adventists believe that humans do not have spirits--that they die like animals die. What's the difference, really? Amazing how close to New Age philosophy it is... Colleen |
Dt Registered user Username: Dt
Post Number: 94 Registered: 4-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 7:21 pm: | |
Colleen, I don't have the exact quotes right now but EGW told quite a few people that trying to live the strict vegetarian lifestyle was not for everyone. She got quite upset when people were confronted by factors that would make it less healthy than otherwise and still continued with the diet. She told one missionary couple to have a raw egg and a glass of wine (might have been grape juice) every day. I very rarely defend EGW but in this instance your mother is going against "inspired counsel". DT |
Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 1793 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 7:30 pm: | |
However, there are also contradictory quotes from EGW that say that vegetarianism is required for everyone. Jeremy |
Raven Registered user Username: Raven
Post Number: 757 Registered: 7-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 8:34 pm: | |
If God was so against having people take an animal's life, then why did He institute the sacrifice system? In practical human terms, that's far more senseless than killing an animal strictly for food needs. |
Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5846 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 8:40 pm: | |
Raven, good point! Dt, you're right...but my MIL's answer is that "we are told" that the time is coming when animals will be so diseased that meat and eggs and milk need to be abandoned. On that basis she eschews eggs, etc. She did eat a few eggs after she was released from the hospital a couple of years ago after being kept unconscious and on a ventilator as she fought to recover from severe myocarditis. She said, though, that she didn't like them...that years ago she had enjoyed them, but now they tasted bad to her. She sincerely believes animal products are too diseased to be fit for food today. Colleen |
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